Scott Sellar was 9 stone dripping wet but one of the best midfielders in a league more physical than this one.

I think the current badge is superb and one of the best in the entire four divisions. It has everything you would want - our name, year of formation, Latin motto and the red rose of Lancashire. Tweaking it a little with the blue and white halved background would be good and, as EiT says, perhaps changing the yellow lettering and also changing the shade of blue to royal blue on the circular part of the badge. A very marginal update, for me.

Hugill proving far more effective for QPR as a loan than either of our big money strikers. This season looks an opportunity missed, with the money we've spent over the past 2 years we should have a much stronger starting 11 than we do.

I'm out in Spain at the moment so I can't do it now. I'm a klutz with computers but No 2 son is pretty good. I'll see what he can do when I get back. It really is a great little series of drawings, the caricature is Dougie to a tee.

This league his very poor and the teams who do well are organized ones . Look at the spine of the Rovers team Walton , Williams , Johnson and Graham a very experienced spine and good enough for this league . So wheres TM going wrong Bennett and Lenihan are midfielders Gallagher , Armstrong , are forwards and they are all playing out of position . If we are going to keep playing this way its going to be a long hard season . If we are to move forward as a club TM needs to be brave a get more young lads in Rankin , Tosin in to the back four and move Lenihan into midfield Rothwell and Chapman on to the wings or Could Travis be moved out wide and have a midfield of Chapman Lenihan Johnson and Travis. Dack and Graham upfront and a back four of , Rankin, Tosin , Williams and Cunningham something needs to give its the same everyweek silly mistakes and players switching off

A foul would be given in that situation 99% of the time, we had two players impeding the goalkeeper so I don't see how we can cry unfair treatment there. We already got away with one against Hull. Wonder if Mowbray is instructing the players to do this?

Views on the disallowed goal? I thought it was weak goalkeeping and kind from the ref.

Let's hope he turns out to be the next Gemmill!

How does a shirker like Armstrong walk into the first XI but Rothwell and Chapman are hung out to dry?

Even though the quality is low, you could make a case for most Championship games being 'tough' if you really wanted to. Let's take the next three games. Millwall have already been to WBA - a place where some don't mind a 3-2 defeat - twice this season and won and drawn. Only lost once out of six. Can already hear them being dubbed a 'tough nut to crack' or similar. Reading away. They've also been to WBA and drawn. They also beat Cardiff at home 3-0.....some people were happy with the 0-0 draw we had against them last week. We lost there last season, so a draw there would be an improvement, etc etc. If Luton have a couple of decent results before we play them their 'promotion bounce' will no doubt be mentioned, and you could go on and on. At the end of the day it's all nonsense because there's zero to fear and, if our aim is to make the top 6 like Mowbray and the players told us all summer, we should be going out to win every game and not being content with dropping points against teams we're supposed to be aiming to be up there with.

We live in a country where people are offended by what someone says and ambivalent about what someone does. There would be greater outrage if the EFL made an insensitive joke on Twitter than letting a club shut its gates.

Conway and Rodwell haven’t been signed up anywhere, neither has Whittingham from last summer...

Fulham yes , not sure about anyone else and that includes Sky favourites Leeds !

I think the bottom badge is from a cigarette card issued in 1957 , interestingly it shows the badge on the kit which I did not think happened until the 60 cup final (although the shirt was badged in the 1928 cup final) and is a simple representation of the town badge or the one that was possibly on Rovers officials blazers around that time https://www.grahambuddauctions.co.uk/150518-lot-1327-A-Blackburn-Rovers-Football-Club-blazer-badge-initialled-B-R-F-C-and-bearing-the-town-crest-there?view=lot_detail&auction_id=93 or club documents Edit : Part of the set of cigarette cards which feature the badge

Controversial view but IF we were to change our badge, then I wouldnt want us to go down the route of a boring circular clip art style thing. I'd either like a refurbishment of our current badge - bolder, brighter, less cluttered but keeping the same layout and shape. Alternatively I'd like us to adopt a variant of the town coat of arms worn in the 1960 Cup final, but with a modern twist. I've always liked the Blackburn Rugby Club badge as it is a twist on the town arms and think something similar would be nice as a Rovers badge. Ticks a lot of boxes. Red rose, Blackburn arms with the water and bees, blue and white badge. Simple yet effective. Could be used as a modern badge but very much traditional. Just need to add the Latin motto and 1875 onto the bottom of it and it would look decent.

Be careful, most of us only get one

New badge please:

Spot on. Mowbray is sending in the 'shorter' players to impede the keeper hoping to get away with it sometimes, which we clearly did at Hull. If Graham or Gallagher were doing it we would have no discussion.

Deep Purple - Child In Time

All that points to him being frustrated by lack of first team opportunities by the sounds of it, it's about time he had some.

So's the skill level. You have top players today who can only pass and shoot with one foot and they can only tackle on their good side. Lots of them are extremely poor in the air also.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17874018.dack-reveals-words-exchanged-rovers-dressing-room/ I thought something had gone on as we were a few minutes late coming out for the second half. Sometimes a manager has to sit back and let the players rant at each other and it looks like this was the case. It certainly helped as we were far better in the second half.

I'd love to see that. You could find someone to scan it for you, or just take a photo of it.

You dont see where you could justify starting him? How about on the right of the 3 behind the striker. Second best player againat WBA

My team no square pegs in round holes in this lot Walton . Rankin . Tosin. Williams . Cunningham . Rothwell . Johnson .Travis . Chapman . Dack . Garham . Would like to see Lenihan moved in to midfield if Johnson is injured and Buckley for Dack if he goes missing and Gallagher for Graham 70 mins Armstrong for Rothwell or Chapman easy really

One of my all time favourites. Tremendously skilled and on his day, a top class act. A player with an edge and an aggression - could, and frequently did, mix it with anyone. Just loved his directness and the way he attacked the defender(s) with the ball. Thanks for the memories Fergie and R.I.P.

"Fergie for England" we used to shout from the terraces but we never got our wish, although he was so frustratingly inconsistent that it was never really going to happen. Utterly brilliant on his good days though.

Well, yes he has, but this is the first season he's started in the same division he finished the previous one in. His aim in his first summer window was to rebuild confidence in an ailing club and to build a squad to get out of L1 at the first time of asking, which he did. His second full season was a very different task, the main aim being to consolidate our position in the Championship, which he did pretty comfortably. That takes a very different set of playing & managerial styles to achieve as the quality of opponent is much stronger. This season (his third full season) is the first time he's starting in the same division he finished in, and this time the aim is top 6. Again, that takes a very different type of approach & better quality of player to achieve, and of course the jury's out on whether he can achieve that. So to therefore say, just because he's been here for 3 years, that he's had 3 years to gel together a squad with a style (as opposed to just a team spirit) sufficient to get promoted to the PL is a little disingenuous. Yes some clubs have bounced through with consecutive promotions, but they're the exception rather than the rule. I don't expect to dissuade you (or anyone else) from your opinion, which of course you are entitled to; I'm just giving mine, which I like to think is pretty even handed and realistic, all things considered.

Madon, can you post this photo to WMC group.

I think the difficulty is the wages that a top class striker would want to come here. We can’t afford the break our wage structure, the wages to turnover ratio is already too high. You therefore have to invest money in younger strikers on low-ish wages who have the potential to develop into top strikers. That’s what we’ve done with Gallagher and Brereton. I think both will be good players at this level and we’ll see the fruits of that given time.

I think we’re a top quality striker away from being a top 6 side. If we had someone like Assombolomba who guarantees 15-20 goals a season then we’d be up there. It’s clear TM hasn’t found the right formula for his attacking positions yet. Dack and Downing are probably the only two certain starters up there right now as they both have quality you can’t leave out, but the other positions are up for grabs. Time to drop Armstrong and give Buckley an extended spell in the team (which I think he will); and forget the idea of playing Gallagher out wide (although he has worked hard out there). I do think we need to keep things in perspective as we were at rock bottom 3 years ago with the worst Rovers side in my lifetime. We’ve come along way since then and are slowly progressing. The likes of Buckley, JRC, Travis, Nyambe, Butterworth means I think we have a good chance of promotion over the next couple of years.

Any opposing manager looking at a side who managed a solid midtable finish last season and have since signed good but ageing championship names like Downing and Johnson and have 'invested' c 15 million in strikers in the last 12 months should really be the one looking at Rovers and saying 'tough game' as well.

There are no myths. Pretty much everyone on here felt our first 6 game sequence was tough, to say otherwise is rewriting history. Fulham are more than just a team with a rookie manager; they spent £100m and still have a core of players starting that got them promoted last time. Boro are an established top half championship side, albeit on the decline / in transition. Same with WBA, except they have a manager with a very strong pedigree. Cardiff are a big, strong team that work well as a unit, did better in the Prem than most expected & were perhaps (tragically) only a striker away from surviving. They won at OT convincingly last game of the season, and have a manager most on here would have like a shot. Hull was a winnable game; we won it. The only real surprise was Charlton. Given where they are in the table, had that been our 6th game and not our first then maybe we'd have been less expectant of an easy 3 points. Plus we should've won that game anyway and have since replaced 2 of that game's back. So I'd call that a reasonably decent start? Can we follow it up? TM deserves the chance to prove we can.

Watch Armstrong for the second goal. Gets skinned easily on the touchline and then starts trotting back towards goal. At the last minute he sees the danger right infront of him and bursts into a sprint to close the man down but it's too late. Just lazy. Having been done so easily he should be busting a gut to get back after the guy.

This is why I think our start is far from a disaster, and those who want TM out on the back of it are way too hard and premature in their judgement. He's a steady, solid manager with knowledge, passion & respect within the game. Not spectacular or flashy by any means, but being that won't rebuild this club. There's such a long way to go this season. Those that have shot out of the traps (Swansea & Charlton especially) will almost certainly fall back into the pack. We're taking time to gel & find the right combinations, but there's top 6 quality in our squad in this league if we can find the right system going forward and cut out silly defensive errors at the back. IMO we're not far off being realistic top 6 challengers come March / April, at which point anything can happen.

We don't know what our best team is. We don't know what our style of play is. We never have under Mowbray. We won't go anywhere until we do. If anyone can name a stretch where we have been unchanged for three games under TM, I would love to be reminded of it. Constant rotation and changing roles and experimenting mid-match won't strengthen us long term. It won't develop the players. It won't allow us to develop a style of play which we can rely on. It won't win us football matches on a consistent enough basis to get in to the Top 6 of the Championship. Tony needs to decide what his best team is now and work with them to build something that works. We have some damn good talent in our squad, but we seem a ways away from it all gelling.

EFL: ??? what Brentford game?

I remember well the first march from the Havelock to Ewood before the Arsenal match. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. Only a few hundred turned up and the disdain we received around Ewood was alarming. We were told to get behind the team, the owners, Mean, we are not proper fans etc. I often wonder if it would have been different in thousands of fans had marched instead of pouring scorn on the ones highlighting the plight we felt was coming. How right we were. One of the only true things Kean said was that only 1% of fans were protesting.

Embarrassed by what the owners and the criminal negligence had done to our club. Ashamed of the lack of culpability from footballing bodies and the support of shysters in the media.

Yes it was compete shit. I was extremely down by it all. I hated the owners absolutely for what they were doing to my fantastic club. Ergo I was on marches, meetings, walk outs and the rest of it showing my ongoing pride in my club. Yet you were embarrassed to be a Rovers fan?

Exactly. I was ashamed of those fans who sat on their hands and watched these nefarious people do what they liked with our club - under the guise of “backing the boys”. I was never ashamed to support this club. Poor show Philip.

Never, ever I have been embarrassed by Blackburn Rovers. The club was under occupation by nefarious people, but that in no way impacted my view of a football institution going back nearly 150 years.

Shame for being a Rovers fan? I stopped reading there.

Mowbray not flawless. We do lose games through his selections, tactics and substitutions we should otherwise be getting points from. But in a dirty industry of mega egos and prize shits I am deeply pleased we have a human being who fundamentally tries to be decent and do his very best as Rovers manager. Mowbray is a welcome change considering the open sewer we had running through the heart of the club in all too many of the recent seasons. I am grateful Rovers now look like a football club in senior management. Sure not of the calibre of Williams Finn and Hughes but what we have now is a blessed relief compared with the rest of this decade. I am also grateful that I no longer shame for being a Rovers fan and can feel genuine optimism and excitement about approaching games and for the future of the club. Mowbray is the football boss and just as the criticism stops on his desk so should the recognition praise and thanks for us being in a better place now, a much better place in reality, than I think any of us could have realistically forecast when he first walked into Ewood.

Yeah, Wharton’s dined off a couple! As an aside, tiny bit surprised Travis isn’t in the England under 21 squad. He can’t be too far off...although perhaps best he’s flying slightly under the radar for now.

It’s complete bullshit tbh mate. Whatever can be rightfully levelled at Mowbray, I have literally NEVER heard anyone in football refer to anything other than how thoroughly decent the guy is. The drivel that spews out “you can just see Joe Rothwell doesn’t like him” the crap about Joe Nuttall being “let down” by him etc...if only they knew the truth. How much respect both have for the manager. In fact how much the group suffer if they think they’re letting him down. Are his tactics always great? Does he sign brilliant players everytime? Nope. The biggest criticism which stands mutually between here and and the club is that, if anything, TM is too loyal. The annaihilation of the manager by some on here is embarrassing.

Well they certainly could not play it at the Manchester Council stadium that your team play at if that is the criteria.

Somebody suggested that the Bolton v bury game scheduled for next Sunday should go ahead and be played at old Trafford with all fans turning up to show solidarity and the proceeds going to all the unpaid players and staff who have lost jobs and suffered through unpaid wages. i think that would be an excellent idea. Also would be a great opportunity to get banners and protest against the fa, efl, corrupt unfit owners and all the governing bodies ruining our beautiful game. Imagine a packed old Trafford with Bolton, bury, Blackpool, rovers, Coventry, Leyton orient, notts county etc and just football fans who care about our game that is slowly being destroyed. All of football united for all the world to see that we’ve had enough.

Anderson looks like a bad ‘un doesn’t he. We shouldn’t be surprised though because I reckon all Anderson’s in football are bad ‘uns. You have Ken, then you have Jerome. Myles was bloody useless as was Anders. out with the Andersons.

Great discussion here One more for the mix. My 2002 hat trick for Langho reserves against Blue Star was a performance for the ages. Whilst some of these players are legendary in stature could they have done it on a pleasant Tuesday evening at Pleasy in September?