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Academy & U21s

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Just now, SkipDonoghue said:

Mowbray is not the right man to bring the ypung players through, he doesn't have the back bone to give any young player an extended run in he team, he has talked the talk with regards many of them but he doesn't walk the walk

I have heard that there is a couple or so of the higher rated youngsters that are looking for a way out as they feel they have been led up the garden path a little and are at a stage in their careers where 1st team football is now so important for their future development

It's unlikely the players out on loan at present are unlikely to get an opportunity either as the pathway isn't there for them either

January will see a few go on loan, with this most of them will go into the last knockings of their contracts and with no intension of extending them as they see no pathway into the 1st team and once out on loan they do seem to become the forgotten men

Also to make any money on these young players would mean giving them a decent run in the 1st team that won't happen so they will walk for minimal amounts and once again with no benifit to Rovers in any way, the academy isn't being used in the correct way as it stands its failing and this is due to what happens at 1st team level and until this changes young players will leave for next to  nothing as they have in the past 

When was the last time Rovers picked up any decent money for an academy player? Phil Jones and then David Raya

This season should have seen at least 3 decent young players fully integrated into the 1st team but hasn't and its disappointing, the promotion of Damien Johnson should have seen this transition for the young players made seemless but it hasn't, so his role should be questioned also, does he have any input? I Highley doubt it

Mowbray promotes Johnson into a position designed to fail. Now, who would have thought that?

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Just now, SkipDonoghue said:

Mowbray is not the right man to bring the ypung players through, he doesn't have the back bone to give any young player an extended run in he team, he has talked the talk with regards many of them but he doesn't walk the walk

I have heard that there is a couple or so of the higher rated youngsters that are looking for a way out as they feel they have been led up the garden path a little and are at a stage in their careers where 1st team football is now so important for their future development

It's unlikely the players out on loan at present are unlikely to get an opportunity either as the pathway isn't there for them either

January will see a few go on loan, with this most of them will go into the last knockings of their contracts and with no intension of extending them as they see no pathway into the 1st team and once out on loan they do seem to become the forgotten men

Also to make any money on these young players would mean giving them a decent run in the 1st team that won't happen so they will walk for minimal amounts and once again with no benifit to Rovers in any way, the academy isn't being used in the correct way as it stands its failing and this is due to what happens at 1st team level and until this changes young players will leave for next to  nothing as they have in the past 

When was the last time Rovers picked up any decent money for an academy player? Phil Jones and then David Raya

This season should have seen at least 3 decent young players fully integrated into the 1st team but hasn't and its disappointing, the promotion of Damien Johnson should have seen this transition for the young players made seemless but it hasn't, so his role should be questioned also, does he have any input? I Highley doubt it

Agree with all of that.

What’s even more damning is that we’ve invested time and money in the likes of Wharton and Magloire and, despite an injury crisis, they don’t look like having that path to the first team that you mention.

I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again: football is a confidence sport. Players, especially young ones thrive on confidence. Mowbray knocks the confidence out of young lads - I’ve seen the effects with my own eyes. Nuttall showed great promise in the U23s but was treated badly because Samuel was Mowbray’s man. He was dumped while in form and never really recovered. It’s like Mowbray wants to make an example of them, make men of them, get “the right kind of reaction”. Young lads aren’t like that any more. They are told they are great from a young age and then they end up with an old school manager who tells them they aren’t.

Magloire was captain of the U23s and was growing in stature. He took his chance in his first game and was then dropped from the squad and sent out on loan. Promptly injured. Not that the injury is Mowbray’s fault but he could have been in and around our first team instead of on Rochdale’s bench.

Is it that all of these players aren’t good enough - despite how they perform against their contemporaries at PL clubs? Or is it that we aren’t giving them real chances? Or giving them a look in and then slamming the door? We may be no different to any other club but when you are having a poor season, with glaring holes in the squad (defence) that aren’t being dealt with, this will be the criticism. Can’t buy them and can’t grow your own.

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0F744F5B-EFE3-4EBB-8B7E-29EFB33D4CFA.thumb.jpeg.8ea5ed1ff4ca32ef7f44a65c4443cb4d.jpeg
JRC clearly won’t be involved against Leeds. Must mean the full back slots are sorted: Bennett and Williams it is then.

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0-1

Could be 0-3. We’ve been terrible, they’ve been all over us.

 Anyone championing Chapman for first team action needs to get down to one of these games and have a look.

All the first teamers anonymous early on.

 Mols playing centre midfield!

Edited by Stuart

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Trying to work out if Mowbray faxed over tonight’s team, formation and tactics.

Dreadful.

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27 minutes ago, Stuart said:

0-1

Could be 0-3. We’ve been terrible, they’ve been all over us.

 Anyone championing Chapman for first team action needs to get down to one of these games and have a look.

All the first teamers anonymous early on.

 Mols playing centre midfield!

Thanks Stuart for the update. 

 

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Glass ankles Chapman has pulled up. Hurt blocking a pass but hobbled around for 5 minutes. Another few months out I expect. :rolleyes:

Edited by Stuart

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Shame really. We’ve been a lot livelier and had some play in the final third since Brereton and Samuel went off.

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Second striker behind DomSam until he went off. Now behind Vale. Dack position I guess.

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Pretty clear what the problem was tonight.

Mowbray’s men just weren’t interested.

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Didn’t notice Davenport (good or bad - so I guess steady). JRC got better as the fans went on and got the second - I incorrectly credited Vale. Hilton did really well. Should be on the bench instead of Leutwiler.

The U23 team is a strange phenomenon these days. I get that it’s a way to get first teamers match ready but it a worse side to play in (certainly to watch) when first teamers start so does it do what it needs to? Not sure.

Edited by Stuart

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Just now, Stuart said:

Didn’t notice Davenport (good or bad - so I guess steady). JRC got better as the fans went on and got the second - I incorrectly credited Vale. Hilton did really well. Should be on the bench instead of Leutwiler.

The U23 team is a strange phenomenon these days. I get that it’s a way to get first teamers match ready but it a worse side to play in (certainly to watch) when first teamers start so does it do what it needs to? Not sure.

I wonder whether this is due to the first teamers not being as motivated, not being as fit due to just coming back from injury/long spells of inaction, not being as good, or not being used to their teammates and the u23 style of play.

Probably some combination of some of these factors.

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Poor displays from all the first team players tonight.

Further proof that our academy players are brilliant, and that our first team dross need moving on. Davenport, Chapman, Samuel and Brereton all looked awful. Could've been 3-0 down at half time. Second half and on came Jack Vale, Isaac Whitehall and Ben Paton. JRC moved into a forward role alongside Butterworth and Vale.

Final score 3-1 Rovers. Best way to describe it is that Vale - Butterworth - JRC >>>>> Brereton - Chapman - Samuel, by SOME distance. 

Good win in the end, but worrying times for Ben Brereton, who on that performance will struggle to play in our first team again all season. Shout out to Sobowale who I thought looked great in defence, and some great saves from Joe Hilton too.

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Just now, JoeH said:

Poor displays from all the first team players tonight.

Further proof that our academy players are brilliant, and that our first team dross need moving on. Davenport, Chapman, Samuel and Brereton all looked awful. Could've been 3-0 down at half time. Second half and on came Jack Vale, Isaac Whitehall and Ben Paton. JRC moved into a forward role alongside Butterworth and Vale.

Final score 3-1 Rovers. Best way to describe it is that Vale - Butterworth - JRC >>>>> Brereton - Chapman - Samuel, by SOME distance. 

Good win in the end, but worrying times for Ben Brereton, who on that performance will struggle to play in our first team again all season. Shout out to Sobowale who I thought looked great in defence, and some great saves from Joe Hilton too.

Brereton needs to go on loan. It’s an ignominious way to go but it has to happen - for everyone’s sake. Mowbray’s pride will need to take a hit though.

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Just now, Wegerleswiggle said:

How did Lewis Thompson play?

Was okay, the lad against him on their right wing could level Adama Traore, Gareth Bale and Tyler Magloire ;) for pace though! Lewis coped well considering I'd say their winger was their best player.

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Well I'm not sure where that win came from given the balance of the match up until 60 odd minutes. Up until then Middlesbrough were by far the superior side and we didn't get going. Only the keeper with 3 or 4 excellent saves kept us in it. 

The removal of the 'first team' trio resulted in an immediate and drastic improvement from which point the game turned and Middlesbrough had no answer.

Mowbray's trio have a hell of a lot to do before they can be relied upon to perform. In fairness there is a long history of senior players dropping into the u23s and not looking interested, treating it more as a run around whilst the younger players put more into it.

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For 73 minutes we were never in the game - then Chapman was the last of the 'seniors' to leave the field and suddenly we looked a team again.  Hilton kept us in the game against a very impressive Middlesbrough side who ought to have been four or five ahead before we got back into the game.  I'm sure they will be travelling back tonight wondering how on earth they lost that game.

Credit the lads for a thrilling final 15 minutes when they turned the game on its head.

Biggest concern has to be the performances of Brereton and Chapman again.  Neither look anywhere near good enough for Championship football and Chapman seems to be made of 'glass' these days - he'd give Grella a run for his money in terms of dashing to the treatment room.  In fairness to Brereton it was the first game back after a long lay off but he simply doesn't move or look like an athlete let alone a footballer.  I hope I'm wrong and he turns things around but I agree with Stuart - in the short term he needs to go out on loan and try to rediscover whatever it was that Forest and Rovers saw in him. 

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