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[Archived] Transfers Part 2


Tom

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26 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Along with youth. You've been brainwashed sir! Everything coming out the Rovers PR machine is youth youth youth. It's cheap and can can sell at profit.

Only issue is our youth who've played in the FT are poor.

The under 23's did well last season. They can't be that poor. I read they came 4th, just behind 3 big Premier league clubs. 

So me saying we should bring through youth means I am brainwashed? Nonsense. If we weren't bringing though youth people would be complaining that we weren't. 

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34 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

... 'frees' or 'out of contract' means the same when we talk about recruitment. No fee just wages. You know that, I know that, we all know that.

Ya, exactly. We have room for manuever from the funds freed up by crap leaving alone. There is no panic yet. 3 weeks to pre season. Let's see where we are at then. 

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I'd be happy if we tried for some players with pace, who aren't afraid to take people on, and players with creativity in the middle of the pitch.

Central midfield is a real weak point for us.

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do we need to spend more than has been freed up by wages etc? Our squad was bloated with crap. Some quality additions, along with youth and we will have a quality league 1 side. We don't HAVE to sign players for fees. It seems some people here won't be happy unless we do, regardless if we can get players who are good or better and out of contract. 

We don't have to but chances of building a league one winning/promotion team on nothing is slim.

Add to the number of players we need makes the task near impossible.

You can get great free transfers, Mulgrew and Whittingham are 2 examples but most are free for a reason. Akpan and Guthrie cost nothing but they weren't great. Akpan had a good game in every 5 and Guthrie was awful until Mowbray rocked up.

We spent nothing and went from midtable, to near relegation, to relegated. It's a continuous downgrade.

We need to buy quality players to get straight back up, there is no escaping that. We can't do it on freebies, loans and youth. Even Mogga says so. 

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Just now, cesus said:

Not sure if it's been said anywhere but Joe Grayson, Stefan Mols and Charley Doyle have all signed two year pro deals. I'm not too clued up on the youth team so can't really comment on these lads.

The Rovers currently have 16 professionally contracted players with first team experience.

The 16 includes 2 goalkeepers, Tomlinson, Wharton and new boy PW.

All the rest are unblooded youth.

TM and Venus have a lot of work to do but still have plenty of time.

I Know. LOL

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1 hour ago, Dunnfc said:

Along with youth. You've been brainwashed sir! Everything coming out the Rovers PR machine is youth youth youth. It's cheap and can can sell at profit.

Only issue is our youth who've played in the FT are poor.

Because they are being blooded out of necessity not because they are good or even ready in some cases yet the lower down we fall the less that will be the case. All part of the overall plan and i'd say it's being brought about purposely despite what gets spouted.

Proof as always is in the pudding but TM could turn out to be yet another one who's been promised the earth then finds himself having no choice but to fill the squad out with youngsters whether they be ours or borrowed.  He's brought this up in the past and said it's a risky way to go but maybe a new contract will pacify him to get on with it.

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Just now, tomphil said:

Because they are being blooded out of necessity not because they are good or even ready in some cases yet the lower down we fall the less that will be the case. All part of the overall plan and i'd say it's being brought about purposely despite what gets spouted.

Proof as always is in the pudding but TM could turn out to be yet another one who's been promised the earth then finds himself having no choice but to fill the squad out with youngsters whether they be ours or borrowed.  He's brought this up in the past and said it's a risky way to go but maybe a new contract will pacify him to get on with it.

Only spouting going on is the bold part.

Remind me again why a company would purposely run up 100+m of debt, slash the turnover by 5000% and ostracise 50% of its customer base? 

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On 2017-6-16 at 13:23, Dunnfc said:

Alex Kiwmoya joined Doncaster, this lad is rapid, ex England youth and not a bad record at Crewe last year. He's an ideal super sub

Be interesting to see how he does now he's got to pull his tripe out as he was far from good at Crewe from what I heard.  He was on 8k a week at Chelsea n has a big time charlie attitude to boot, ended up playing more U23 than first team games in the 2nd half and was given a roasting by team mates for attitude.

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41 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

We don't have to but chances of building a league one winning/promotion team on nothing is slim.

Add to the number of players we need makes the task near impossible.

You can get great free transfers, Mulgrew and Whittingham are 2 examples but most are free for a reason. Akpan and Guthrie cost nothing but they weren't great. Akpan had a good game in every 5 and Guthrie was awful until Mowbray rocked up.

We spent nothing and went from midtable, to near relegation, to relegated. It's a continuous downgrade.

We need to buy quality players to get straight back up, there is no escaping that. We can't do it on freebies, loans and youth. Even Mogga says so. 

We got relegated because Coyle decided to replace Duffy and Hanley with Greer and Brown. In fairness his hands were tied with regards transfer fees, but he could have undoubtedly signed 2 better centre halves. Signing 2 36 year olds was asking for trouble. Plus the fact he is a dreadful manager who not only seemed to not train defenders, but he somehow actually made them worse..

I hope we do spend a bit, but if we keep signing players like Whittingham, I don't care how we get them. 

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That's a good question.

Also why do they continue with a plan which is obviously flawed when they are supposed to have rid themselves of all previous dark influences.

What made them believe that a failing team could stay in the Championship with almost nil investment in players.

I could go on but for a final one how do we analyze lunatics aka the Raos.

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Just now, Biz said:

Only spouting going on is the bold part.

Remind me again why a company would purposely run up 100+m of debt, slash the turnover by 5000% and ostracise 50% of its customer base? 

Cut the drama queen routine it's boring now.

What i'm saying is I reckon they are purposely creating a situation where their managers have no option but to use youth in the squad whether it be ours or borrowed in costing nothing like Coyle did last season.

As for the rest of it you might like to take into account that the 100 mill + debt will likely show up in Vs portfolio as a 100 mill + oversees INVESTMENT. Quite simply it somehow suits their accounting process otherwise they'd have cut and run years ago. Also don't think for one minute it's not possible for the people involved in this to personally put money into their own pockets.

Do some of your own research on these things instead of hanging about on here still trying to make out it's all a big mistake and couldn't possibly be the case for the poor poor mislead misadvised Indians.

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5 minutes ago, Biz said:

Only spouting going on is the bold part.

Remind me again why a company would purposely run up 100+m of debt, slash the turnover by 5000% and ostracise 50% of its customer base? 

Parachute payments, TV money, sponsorship deals, match day income, advertising,  plus many many millions of pounds in player sales - where has it all gone ?

On top of all that money going somewhere -  they have overspent by £100 million and have short term loans and are mortgaging season ticket sales. 

I'm not saying it's all corruption but if the Raos can run multi billion pound businesses successfully, why are Rovers in the state they are in - It's not just bad luck. 

Furthermore, whatever the real reasons for our continued decline, Venky's are responsible and their lack of communication with and respect for Rovers fans is a disgrace..  

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Just now, Crimpshrine said:

Parachute payments, TV money, sponsorship deals, match day income, advertising,  plus many many millions of pounds in player sales - where has it all gone ?

On top of all that money going somewhere -  they have overspent by £100 million and have short term loans and are mortgaging season ticket sales. 

I'm not saying it's all corruption but if the Raos can run multi billion pound businesses successfully, why are Rovers in the state they are in - It's not just bad luck. 

Furthermore, whatever the real reasons for our continued decline, Venky's are responsible and their lack of communication with and respect for Rovers fans is a disgrace..  

Whilst the club has been run via it's own turnover, borrowings, sales and tv monies etc it's all on the corporations accounts. Perfectly plausible to assume just 10% of all that income could find it's way into a personal back pocket by extraction of various means down the years.

Doesn't matter what the books show or how much goes in via share capital or borrowings because it's a huge business run by other peoples money it's how these things work and as long as the major corporation, like the VH Group, has the turnover to service it all there is no problem.

It's how industrialists boost their personal fortunes all the time, why do so many huge corporations go bust but their ex owners remain billionaires ?

Simple you use other money and extract your own along the way. Not saying it has happened at Rovers but to say it couldn't is naïve. Rich people never get rich by giving stuff away, the art of good business as always is being a good middle man.

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45 minutes ago, Biz said:

Only spouting going on is the bold part.

Remind me again why a company would purposely run up 100+m of debt, slash the turnover by 5000% and ostracise 50% of its customer base? 

Bit of a stupid boast when that's exactly what has happened!

Remind me again about how unlucky, hoodwinked, badly advised our poor old simpleton owners have been?

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Just now, Stuart said:

Bit of a stupid boast when that's exactly what has happened!

Remind me again about how unlucky, hoodwinked, badly advised our poor old simpleton owners have been?

On his points about the running up of debt and slashing customer base i'd say isn't it rather odd they've never seemed to care one jot about all that ?

Why would that be I wonder.

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1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Because they are being blooded out of necessity not because they are good or even ready in some cases yet the lower down we fall the less that will be the case. All part of the overall plan and i'd say it's being brought about purposely despite what gets spouted.

Proof as always is in the pudding but TM could turn out to be yet another one who's been promised the earth then finds himself having no choice but to fill the squad out with youngsters whether they be ours or borrowed.  He's brought this up in the past and said it's a risky way to go but maybe a new contract will pacify him to get on with it.

I know it just irks me people can't seem to see this, reduced to youth playing first team football for our club, not proving depth but just to enable us to take to the field.

Weve spoken about the quality of youth before but there isn't one since Grant Hanley good enough to play for this football club, that's partially why we keep regressing 

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1 hour ago, Manchester Blue said:

Be interesting to see how he does now he's got to pull his tripe out as he was far from good at Crewe from what I heard.  He was on 8k a week at Chelsea n has a big time charlie attitude to boot, ended up playing more U23 than first team games in the 2nd half and was given a roasting by team mates for attitude.

Good post, what is it with Chelsea and obscene youth contracts, Chabalaboh 40 k plus a week, same loftus cheek it's quite frankly almost staggering

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33 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Bit of a stupid boast when that's exactly what has happened!

Remind me again about how unlucky, hoodwinked, badly advised our poor old simpleton owners have been?

Boast?

No boast, I just can't join in with the same wallowing about intention. Why would anyone want to burn money? Unless we've established some evidence, I'll refrain from joining in with the "tomphil"esq discussions of BRFCS.

It's always been quite obvious (to me at least) that our predominant issues are the conflict of interests between agents and owners. Long term damage done by giving someone in bed with the agents the key to the safe.

 

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1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

Parachute payments, TV money, sponsorship deals, match day income, advertising,  plus many many millions of pounds in player sales - where has it all gone ?

On top of all that money going somewhere -  they have overspent by £100 million and have short term loans and are mortgaging season ticket sales. 

I'm not saying it's all corruption but if the Raos can run multi billion pound businesses successfully, why are Rovers in the state they are in - It's not just bad luck. 

Furthermore, whatever the real reasons for our continued decline, Venky's are responsible and their lack of communication with and respect for Rovers fans is a disgrace..  

Just have a look at what a premier league wage budget on championship, small gate turnover looks like! We aren't the first club to suffer through ridiculous decisions upon relegation and won't be the last!

I agree on last paragraph for sure! If they'd seen through some weird pride and spoken to people who had the best interests of the club instead of SEM or whatever!...

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31 minutes ago, Biz said:

Boast?

No boast, I just can't join in with the same wallowing about intention. Why would anyone want to burn money? Unless we've established some evidence, I'll refrain from joining in with the "tomphil"esq discussions of BRFCS.

It's always been quite obvious (to me at least) that our predominant issues are the conflict of interests between agents and owners. Long term damage done by giving someone in bed with the agents the key to the safe.

 

Yet you actually started this particular one seeing as I was originally referring to the current overall plan which seemed to kick in post embargo rather than any conspiracy hatched in Dec 2010.

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