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This is a very simple explanation as to why we have to have a Final say on whatever deal is eventually agreed on. It's from the former Channel 4 Italain football presenter James Richardson: -

"In the last two years we have learnt a lot about the realities of Brexiting. But in the meantime, while the politicians have been happily changing their minds, changing their promises, changing their positions on what Brexit will actually mean, we’ve been told we’re allowed no further say in the matter, that it would be undemocratic. Really?”

It was quoted in an article in the Independent yesterday by Tom Peck. He then goes on to outline all the changes that Brexiteers have made since the Referendum. One classic was that Nadine Dorries tweeted 4 days after the vote that "The Norway model has always been my preference" She now describes MPs from her own party who support that as traitors. 

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On 24/10/2018 at 13:51, only2garners said:

This is a very simple explanation as to why we have to have a Final say on whatever deal is eventually agreed on. It's from the former Channel 4 Italain football presenter James Richardson: -

"In the last two years we have learnt a lot about the realities of Brexiting. But in the meantime, while the politicians have been happily changing their minds, changing their promises, changing their positions on what Brexit will actually mean, we’ve been told we’re allowed no further say in the matter, that it would be undemocratic. Really?”

It was quoted in an article in the Independent yesterday by Tom Peck. He then goes on to outline all the changes that Brexiteers have made since the Referendum. One classic was that Nadine Dorries tweeted 4 days after the vote that "The Norway model has always been my preference" She now describes MPs from her own party who support that as traitors. 

Nadine Dorries who had to ask the Tory Mps WhatsApp chat group what the single market was, after the referendum.

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I voted Leave. Would vote Remain if offered the chance.

None of that blameless 'we were lied to' crap, my own fault for allowing myself to get swept up in the Leave hysteria.

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Used to live in Nadine's constituency and they have a habit of voting in complete dingbat Tories. Her predecessor Jonathan Sayeed was pretty shoddy with expenses claims, using his position as an MP for personal gain and so on.

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On 21/10/2018 at 22:08, jim mk2 said:

 

Chilling piece in the Guardian on Dominic Raab from 2012. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/aug/22/britannia-unchained-rise-of-new-tory-right

Wearing jeans, the 38-year-old backbencher is talking – warily – about transforming the British workplace. He thinks current employment law offers "excessive protections" to workers. "The talented and hard working have nothing to fear. People who are coasting – it should be easier to let them go, to give the unemployed a chance. It is a delicate balancing act, but it should be decided in favour of the latter."

 

This is the right wing Tory agenda behind Brexit - the type of Britain the likes of Raab, Rees-Mogg, Redwood and Davis want to see, one in which workers have no rights and live in fear of the sack,  and employers rule with a rod of iron.

Chaddy and his ilk have a shock coming.......

THIS is the agenda of Brexit.

Rape and pillage.

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It is Philipl.

Liam Fox is in it for the same reasons - as are all the right wing Tories. 

FOX ....

 “It is too difficult to hire and fire, and too expensive to take on new employees. It is intellectually unsustainable to believe that workplace rights should remain untouchable while output and employment are clearly cyclical.”

https://realbusiness.co.uk/liam-fox-its-too-difficult-to-hire-and-fire/

 

well hiring people isn’t anywhere near as difficult as sacking them is it!  They want to strip rights from citizens and workers. Unbelievably folk vote for it. What exactly is good about taking away mine and other people’s right to freedom of movement? It’s a right that we should treasure. The EU won’t be stripping away the rights of their members that’s for sure.

How stupid are some folk?

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Looking at the detailed map from the Channel 4 Brexit survey of 20,000 voters last night, Blackburn and Burnley have seen an over 10% swing to Remain since 2016.

The overall poll showed Remain now ahead 54- 46.

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Reading those qoutes from Raab and Fox, it is funny they want to hire and fire so much and yet they'd be dead against say their constituency party members being able to give them the boot so easily and replace them in their safe seats. To talk of coasting whilst most MPs are in seats that would elect a cow with the runs if it stood for party X or y is a bit much.

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Raab:

 

“I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing,” he said.

 

I'm speechless

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https://www.thejournal.ie/theresa-may-wedded-to-the-idea-of-irish-sea-border-says-dups-foster-4330964-Nov2018/

May would be better off not letting the tale wag the dog in this instance. The DUP are extremely backwards and bitter people. I find the whole relationship so weird. It just shows that politicians want one thing and that is power at all costs. 

Do any of you know of a Andrew Bridgen? He thinks that all English people are entitled to an Irish passport. You have to laugh really. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/irish-passport-england-uk-andrew-bridgen-tory-mp-brexit-border-eu-a8587286.html 

Interestingly there are currently 300,000 English people living over here in the Republic. I wonder how many will apply for a passport. Can ye do the dual passport thing? I know some countries you have to give up your original one first. 

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Anyone who has Irish parents or I assume grandparents can apply for an Irish passport as well at the UK one and many thousands have done so. Those in Northern Ireland can have both anyway.

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On 21/10/2018 at 21:08, jim mk2 said:

 

 

Chilling piece in the Guardian on Dominic Raab from 2012. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/aug/22/britannia-unchained-rise-of-new-tory-right

Wearing jeans, the 38-year-old backbencher is talking – warily – about transforming the British workplace. He thinks current employment law offers "excessive protections" to workers. "The talented and hard working have nothing to fear. People who are coasting – it should be easier to let them go, to give the unemployed a chance. It is a delicate balancing act, but it should be decided in favour of the latter."

 

This is the right wing Tory agenda behind Brexit - the type of Britain the likes of Raab, Rees-Mogg, Redwood and Davis want to see, one in which workers have no rights and live in fear of the sack,  and employers rule with a rod of iron.

Chaddy and his ilk have a shock coming.......

The one piece of good news will be that when we finally reach the Brexit promised land and employment laws are changed that the talented and hard working have nothing to fear. Those that have only just worked out that the UK is an island however........

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2 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Anyone who has Irish parents or I assume grandparents can apply for an Irish passport as well at the UK one and many thousands have done so. Those in Northern Ireland can have both anyway.

We have gotten plenty of football players over the years going down that route! 

Ya, handy up there being able to have both. 

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On 24/10/2018 at 11:57, den said:

Times writer and brexiteer Melanie Philips on TV this morning, says we can get around the huge road chaos at the ports by waving through vehicles. She argues that in times of emergency - which she says this would be - it would be the right thing to do. Her argument is that the road blocks need not happen.

So she is saying that it will be a constant emergency? That's mad 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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Jo Johnson doing more to represent the majority of Labour Party members views on brexit, than the leader of the Labour Party ever did.

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On 09/11/2018 at 13:53, Bigdoggsteel said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46147628

I don't know how this is going to be resolved at all. There has to be either a border between the north and the Republic, or between the island of Ireland and the UK. I just have a bad feeling that even after all the EUs words, the Republic and the North will end up coming out the worst from this. 

It can’t be resolved pal.

The UK voted to leave. NI is part of the UK. Republic of Ireland is in the EU.

Maybe the republic should join the UK ? 😂

 

I voted remain btw but believe that having democratically voted leave we should do. Might aswell have a hard brexit and just get on with it imv.

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On 10/11/2018 at 19:10, Franky said:

It can’t be resolved pal.

The UK voted to leave. NI is part of the UK. Republic of Ireland is in the EU.

Maybe the republic should join the UK ? 😂

 

I voted remain btw but believe that having democratically voted leave we should do. Might aswell have a hard brexit and just get on with it imv.

We won't be re-joining no, thanks for the offer though :D 

Personally I think Sinn Fein  should be taking their seats in parliament. It would take some of the power from the DUP, a nasty bunch to have so much power in all of this. 

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More good news concerning Brexit (football related)?

https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/football/football-english-fa-to-cut-foreign-players-in-premier-league-as-brexit-looms-says

Let's be honest. There have been far too many foreign players in teams for a LONG time. 80% to whole teams full of foreign players in the English league has been an absolute piss-take. I think I like Blackburn Rovers much better since we were relegated and have a hardcore of mostly British players (one of the reasons we have such a good team spirit these days IMO).

 

 

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1 hour ago, Husky said:

More good news concerning Brexit (football related)?

https://www.straitstimes.com/sport/football/football-english-fa-to-cut-foreign-players-in-premier-league-as-brexit-looms-says

Let's be honest. There have been far too many foreign players in teams for a LONG time. 80% to whole teams full of foreign players in the English league has been an absolute piss-take. I think I like Blackburn Rovers much better since we were relegated and have a hardcore of mostly British players (one of the reasons we have such a good team spirit these days IMO).

 

 

Be great if Irish players could get in on this. While the increase in foreign players has definitely impacted on the English national team, over here we have arguable been hit harder. In the 90s Irish players were at United, Liverpool and Arsenal, now most are floating around mid table Premier league teams, at best. Ireland and the UK should be allowed work out special deals due to our proximity,cultural similarities and history. Far more beneficial for us to have a good and open relationship with the UK, than with say Lithuania or Estonia. Can't help but feel Ireland is being used as a pawn in all this BREXIT stuff. 

Anyway, I am gone off track. I think BREXIT or not there needs to be some limit on non UK players. When I have seen Arsenal and Chelsea field full teams with not one English or Irish players, I always think that isn't right. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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So.......

looks like nothing changes except our loss of ability to contribute to EU law making, loss of our freedom of movement, loss of security, information and policing and every other benefit of EU membership.

the alternative is to jump over the cliff with no life belt at the bottom. Guess the good news here is that the Tories could very well have put themselves out of power. 

Oh, and Boris is bemoaning the loss of sovereignty.

well done brexiteers.

Edited by den
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1 hour ago, den said:

So.......

looks like nothing changes except our loss of ability to contribute to EU law making, loss of our freedom of movement, loss of security, information and policing and every other benefit of EU membership.

the alternative is to jump over the cliff with no life belt at the bottom. Guess the good news here is that the Tories could very well have put themselves out of power. 

Oh, and Boris is bemoaning the loss of sovereignty.

well done brexiteers.

From a anti Tory perspective (and I am centre left  myself so partial to a bit of that)  this is an amazing outcome. The whole Tory machine look like absolute Muppets.

But then if you look at holistically what this means for Britain it's an absolute horror show whatever route we go down. Huge segments of the population are going to be absolutely furious no matter what we do - whether that be hard Brexit, this chequers deal, or indeed a second referendum (which looks likely to result in us staying in). There isn't a way to please everyone, and the level of activism is very high on all sides.

It looks like a truly horrendously divisive next 10 or so years await us.

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There's a comment in the Guardian by a reader going by the moniker of "headcrash". You may find it worth reading. I certainly did.

So here it is, verbatim.

"So this whole exercise in “taking back control” has resulted in a complex document written by a small number of people in secret, that the British people have absolutely no input in shaping, that will almost certainly be unsatisfactory for everyone on all sides, and is too long for any real scrutiny to happen in the time available. Not that it could really be modified anyway. Marvellous. I feel so empowered by this moment. " 

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