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Thanks to Brexit, construction of new housing may well slow to a halt (it's already only rumbling along) as construction companies struggle to recruit.

I worry where it may leave me and my fiancée. Living with her folk if necessary, I guess.

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On 06/10/2018 at 14:29, Paul said:

I see health care will be a problem for the individual but not for the UK state. Obviously UK citizens have every right to return to the UK and access the NHS but if living abroad they may well have to return home to join the same queues as the rest of us, or fly in and out. As I see it if one choses to live outside the UK one has to pay local health care rates. Obviously Den's new Preston friends didn't consider this when they voted out. Now it's time for them to take the medicine they voted for. No sympathy from me for anyone who voted out.

This isn't a problem of being IN the EU, it's a problem of being OUT!

If Spain has any sense it won't make a deal with the UK in these areas. There are 100,000 Spaniards in the UK most of whom are likely to be young, working and paying taxes. 300,000 British citizens live in Spain, most are likely to be retired, paying little or no tax etc. Why would Spain want to take on an ageing, migrant population from a country that voted to leave the EU largely based on voter's desire to get rid of migrants?

I believe that the costs of private healthcare in Spain is very high, and the fly back to the UK thing will only work if they are well enough to do so. If they need emergency care, they are going to find themselves with massive bills.

I also believe that the 300k figure is an underestimate too, there are an awful lot of people with property out in Spain who haven't registered, so they don't pay the local taxes.

Any of them who voted for Brexit deserve the repercussions, but I'm sure many didn't. I'd imagine if there is a no deal Brexit, many will have to return to the UK.

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The ultimate Brexit irony.

Government wants to change its mind on the 15 page agreement it signed with the EU last December including the Irish backstop.

"We didn't read it" seems to be the favourite excuse.

Yet the public is not allowed to reconsider a referendum which:

- was an aberration in relation to 45 years of pro-EU opinion polling before and since

- was won with the help of Russian and Iranian trolling and enormous bot operation on the day of the vote and day before https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/oct/17/vast-archive-of-tweets-reveals-work-of-trolls-backed-by-russia-and-iran?CMP=share_btn_tw

- was won by illegal means as has been adjudicated by the Electoral Commission

- was won with these statements- none of which Government has the slightest intention of delivering on:

image.thumb.png.098f2df6b91926aaddf3411f7ee63faf.png

 

Edited by philipl

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Little by little Brexiters are draining away.

Amongst those with an opinion, it is now 60-40 remain.

 

Try this little exercise if you are still a Brexiter.

Say to yourself:

I want to get rid of MY human rights because of Brexit

I want to end MY freedom of movement because of Brexit

I want to pay a Visa fee and queue for hours on end to go to France because of Brexit

I want myself and my family to be poorer and at risk of losing our jobs and have smaller pensions because of Brexit

 

Still a Brexiter?- it was ok doing it to others wasn't it but Brexit does it to you, yes YOU personally. 

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Hearing May these last few days, she is just taking the piss. Making it up as she goes along.

Deliberately attended that meeting last night with nothing new to say, when they were looking for a solution to the Irish problem.

My only theory that makes sense is that she is stalling for time for 2 reasons:

1) As long as she does nothing she won't be chucked out. Prolonging her Premiership has become an end in itself.

2) As time runs out she hopes more people will reluctantly back her plan ( whatever it is) in preference to crashing out without a deal. She figures she'll be regarded as a heroine (right all along, stood up to her foes in Europe and in her own party) and stay on as PM.

The only other theory that holds up is that she has no idea what she is doing at all.

 

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I spend a week or 2 ignoring anything Brexit, then do a catch up.

My overarching feelings each time I do this is what a complete mess Britain is in.

At minimum a second referendum is needed. It was ill thought out, and the current state of play offers no light at the end of the tunnel. 

Truly shocking.

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May has only one agenda - to keep kicking the Brexit can down the road so that the Tories stay in power until the 2022 election.  The Conservatives fear Corbyn more than they do a no-deal Brexit, and their over-arching aim is to remain in Downing Street while the Brexit storm passes. The coming Brexit debacle will consequently be blamed on Brussels by the Tories' friends in the right leaning media. 

Edited by jim mk2

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It could be May last week as PM with Davis and Johnson to replace her as PM and Deputy PM. The talks for us to leave Brexit has been a miss. I wouldnt be paying any leaving fee either. Tell the EU no. Its our money.

No reason why we cant have a similar deal to the EU like USA or Canada or Switzerland. 

We can have our own trade deals with USA, Canada, Mexico, Japan, China. We dont need the EU for this. Really hope we dont agree to any silly deals were the EU can blocked us from making these days. 

I.dont want to another vote. But understand why some do. 

No other party is ready to lead talks and Corbyn or his party shouldnt be near these talks.

Just been reading that Corbyn voted against a tax breaks for low paid workers. The Labour leader has failed to back moves raising the amount employees start to pay tax - which currently stands at £11,850. Corbyn voted against these measures over the past eight years which have saved basic ratepayers £5,634 since 2011. Thought they look out for low paid workers?

 

Edited by chaddyrovers

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Googled that last part because it sounded like bolllocks and it looks like you read it in The Sun as it wasn’t reported anywhere else. I can see why you believe it, to be fair, that publication obviously has absolutely no previous for telling lies.....

Edited by K-Hod

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9 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Googled that last part because it sounded like bolllocks and it looks like you read it in The Sun as it wasn’t reported anywhere else. I can see why you believe it, to be fair, that publication obviously has absolutely no previous for telling lies.....

Here is Corbyn voting record on the issue

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10133/jeremy_corbyn/islington_north/divisions?policy=6680

 

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Would you be happy to leave with no deal Chaddy - because that is a possibility at the moment?

plus..... there is no fee for leaving. Any money we do pay upon leaving is for the contracts/commitments we have signed up to. 

 

Brexit could kill off entire industries says Jaguar Landrover chief.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/21/brexit-industries-ralf-speth-jaguar-land-rover-cbi-survey

Edited by den

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58 minutes ago, den said:

Would you be happy to leave with no deal Chaddy - because that is a possibility at the moment?

plus..... there is no fee for leaving. Any money we do pay upon leaving is for the contracts/commitments we have signed up to. 

 

Brexit could kill off entire industries says Jaguar Landrover chief.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/21/brexit-industries-ralf-speth-jaguar-land-rover-cbi-survey

clearly we need a sensible deal with the EU but some of the things I've heard are ridiculous like needing a visa to travel to France or wall between Ireland and Northern Ireland or having to pay a fee for entering another EU country

some businesses keep saying they wouldn't lose jobs and would grow and vice versa. TBH, I don't who or what to believe at times. 

 

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Do you not believe the bosses of all the U.K. based car companies who are telling us that if there’s friction anywhere in their supply line they’ll leave the U.K.? 

 

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6 minutes ago, den said:

Do you not believe the bosses of all the U.K. based car companies who are telling us that if there’s friction anywhere in their supply line they’ll leave the U.K.? 

 

No I dont. 

 

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The 'just in time' supply lines relate to food also. The fresh produce from Europe relies on check-free borders.  We get 30% of our food from the EU, and another 16% from countries that have trade deals with the EU. If the processing of vehicles at Calais goes from 2mins to 4 mins there'll be 25 miles queues down the motorway. All the food will have to be checked. If they can't keep immigrants out of the country they are going to struggle with meat unfit for human consumption. Maybe the Tories will combine the two to keep costs down😉

No deal will also mean dearer food:- 

The British Retail Consortium (BRC) has tried to calculate the impact of tariffs on prices in the shops. It foresees a price rise in the range of 5–29% for beef, 6–32% for cheddar cheese, 9–18% for tomatoes and 5–10% for broccoli. The BRC explained: "The reason for the range is we do not know how domestic producers would react to price increases … would they raise their prices or would they put more of their own product on the UK market if they face tariffs to export to the EU"

And this is the best bit (well, worst):-

But even Mrs May’s agriculture minister doesn’t believe the rest of the world will  step up to supply Britain in the EU’s place, as he told the Committee : "There will be some opportunities for new trade deals … [but] it is important not to exaggerate the opportunities … There is already quite a lot of trade that takes place. The impacts of these new agreements are probably less than some people would presume".

A poke in the eye for those saying "we'll just get deals outside the EU, piece of cake innit". 

I saw Rees-Mogg going on about giving tariff-free deals to countries we import from. What he didn't say is that would impact the ability of British produces to compete.

BREXIT - fecking up this country and it's people from 2019 until forever. But at least that Polish couple down the road will have to go home.

https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/0513/962885-brexit-britain-food/

Edited by blueboy3333

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

No I dont. 

 

There will be less people buying season tickets at Rovers as a direct result of Brexit. Everything else will go up in price so less people will be able to afford them. FACT!

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14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

It could be May last week as PM with Davis and Johnson to replace her as PM and Deputy PM. The talks for us to leave Brexit has been a miss. I wouldnt be paying any leaving fee either. Tell the EU no. Its our money.

No reason why we cant have a similar deal to the EU like USA or Canada or Switzerland. 

We can have our own trade deals with USA, Canada, Mexico, Japan, China. We dont need the EU for this. Really hope we dont agree to any silly deals were the EU can blocked us from making these days. 

I.dont want to another vote. But understand why some do. 

No other party is ready to lead talks and Corbyn or his party shouldnt be near these talks.

Just been reading that Corbyn voted against a tax breaks for low paid workers. The Labour leader has failed to back moves raising the amount employees start to pay tax - which currently stands at £11,850. Corbyn voted against these measures over the past eight years which have saved basic ratepayers £5,634 since 2011. Thought they look out for low paid workers?

 

 

Who do you think the winners are going to be in trade deals with a US president who puts "America First", a Japan who has used this country for the past 30 years as a conduit to sell into the EU and will no longer have any use for us, and a China that sees the UK as "small and insignificant" (their words) and not worth bothering with? As for Mexico and Canada, they are only interested in Nafta, the big US market on their doorstep - what makes you think they want to trade with a tiny market like the UK?

David is so useless even the terminally hopeless May sacked him while Johnson with his ridiculous pronouncements and dreadful record in the FO is unfit for public office at any level. 

The Corbyn story was published in the Sun only - no other newspaper carried it as far as I am aware, which makes you wonder a) on its veracity and b) the motive for yet another media smear against the Labour leader. Could it be that Murdoch, like many right wing media owners, are petrified of him because he will finally clamp down on their decades of tax evasion and deceit ?  Quoting the Sun also shows your lamentable choice of news reading - you really ought to do better.  

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1 hour ago, den said:

How could they operate their just in time supply lines if there’s friction at the ports?

This is why we need a sensible EU deal like Canada and USA have and no tariffs on our exports and similar on the EU imports to here. 

I think May will be oust this week and Davis to be install as leader this week. 

But I wouldn't be begging the EU or his leaders for a deal either. 

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11 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Who do you think the winners are going to be in trade deals with a US president who puts "America First", a Japan who has used this country for the past 30 years as a conduit to sell into the EU and will no longer have any use for us, and a China that sees the UK as "small and insignificant" (their words) and not worth bothering with? As for Mexico and Canada, they are only interested in Nafta, the big US market on their doorstep - what makes you think they want to trade with a tiny market like the UK?

David is so useless even the terminally hopeless May sacked him while Johnson with his ridiculous pronouncements and dreadful record in the FO is unfit for public office at any level. 

The Corbyn story was published in the Sun only - no other newspaper carried it as far as I am aware, which makes you wonder a) on its veracity and b) the motive for yet another media smear against the Labour leader. Could it be that Murdoch, like many right wing media owners, are petrified of him because he will finally clamp down on their decades of tax evasion and deceit ?  Quoting the Sun also shows your lamentable choice of news reading - you really ought to do better.  

I posted Corbyn voting record on the issue and you know what he has voted against it every single time. So much for him caring for low pay workers. He care for one group of people and that's it. his Labour union members and that's it. 

Secondly, why isn't this ignore function working properly @J*B, @Tom and @K-Hod? it seems to not worked after posted but works when you come on to the new page

Edited by chaddyrovers

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

Secondly, why isn't this ignore function working properly @J*B, @Tom and @K-Hod?

The idea is to debate the argument - not ignore it because you don't like it. 

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8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

This is why we need a sensible EU deal like Canada and USA have and no tariffs on our exports and similar on the EU imports to here. 

I think May will be oust this week and Davis to be install as leader this week. 

But I wouldn't be begging the EU or his leaders for a deal either. 

Firstly you said you didn’t believe the heads of the car industries, now you do. 

Chaddy, what are you talking about? Do you believe them when they say they can’t accept friction to their just in time supply lines? Yes or no will do.

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21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

This is why we need a sensible EU deal like Canada and USA have and no tariffs on our exports and similar on the EU imports to here. 

I think May will be oust this week and Davis to be install as leader this week. 

But I wouldn't be begging the EU or his leaders for a deal either. 

You do understand the two examples given relate directly to the EU? The car parts are shipped around Europe to make cars for the European market, not the USA and Canada. The food under discussion is grown in Europe. How easy do you to think it is to ship tomatoes from the US to the UK.

It's people such as yourself who voted leave that have placed this country in a crisis situation which will take decades to overcome. It's clear you simply do not understand and this why the public should never have been given a vote on the subject.

I hate to tell you this chaddy but you're about to discover the folly of supporting leave along with millions of others who were lied to as they were lead up the garden path. You made the bed and you'll be sleeping in it for a very long time.

Edited by Paul

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"No reason why we cant have a similar deal to the EU like USA or Canada or Switzerland. 

 

Well, yes they're is, otherwise it would've been done already, wouldn't it? 

We either stay in the custom's union and avoid a hard border, or we come out of the union, rely on wto rules and as per international law, have a physical border. That is what a Canada style deal would entail and it would lead to a return of the troubles

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Chilling piece in the Guardian on Dominic Raab from 2012. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/aug/22/britannia-unchained-rise-of-new-tory-right

Wearing jeans, the 38-year-old backbencher is talking – warily – about transforming the British workplace. He thinks current employment law offers "excessive protections" to workers. "The talented and hard working have nothing to fear. People who are coasting – it should be easier to let them go, to give the unemployed a chance. It is a delicate balancing act, but it should be decided in favour of the latter."

 

This is the right wing Tory agenda behind Brexit - the type of Britain the likes of Raab, Rees-Mogg, Redwood and Davis want to see, one in which workers have no rights and live in fear of the sack,  and employers rule with a rod of iron.

Chaddy and his ilk have a shock coming.......

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