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Brexit hasn't happened yet but:

Ford Honda Jaguar Airbus HSBC Panasonic Toshiba EasyJet Hitachi P&O Sony Lloyds Barclays AXA UBS EBA Unilever Schaeffler Dyson JP Morgan Flybmi EMA MoneyGram BMW Vauxhall Nissan Toyota Bombardier Body Shop Dudson Of Stoke-On-Trent Burberry Michelin British Steel

All going or gone as have the European Medicines Agency, the European Banking Authority and £1 trillion of financial assets.

And of course this doesn't include three years of new investment which would have come to the UK but went elsewhere.

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7 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

Silas needs to look the other way as well.

Remoaners, losers, idiots and many more such like comments have been made towards remainers on here.

personally doesn’t bother me. What does bother me is the lack of substance behind the brexiteers arguments. As you said, soundbites really is all they have. 

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43 minutes ago, philipl said:

You can always emigrate to America to enjoy the benefits of his derangement first hand.

Hmmmm, you appear to have missed the point.

The evidence you've provided for what the World thinks of us, is the same publication that voted Trump Person of the Year. (Finalists that year also included Nigel Farage and Vladimir Putin)

I think I'll take their opinion with a huge dumper truck of salt thanks.  

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15 hours ago, philipl said:

For those of you who don't get out and about in the World, this is the polite version of how low we have sunk in our standing as a nation:

image.thumb.png.f36738452e5605eb82c5b1404c2458fe.png

Fatty Merkel sinking Britain?

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3 hours ago, Silas said:

Hmmmm, you appear to have missed the point.

The evidence you've provided for what the World thinks of us, is the same publication that voted Trump Person of the Year. (Finalists that year also included Nigel Farage and Vladimir Putin)

I think I'll take their opinion with a huge dumper truck of salt thanks.  

Person of the Year (called Man of the Year or Woman of the Year until 1999)[1] is an annual issue of the United States news magazine Time that features and profiles a person, a group, an idea, or an object that "for better or for worse... has done the most to influence the events of the year". 

On that definition I have no argument with their choice.

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4 hours ago, only2garners said:

Person of the Year (called Man of the Year or Woman of the Year until 1999)[1] is an annual issue of the United States news magazine Time that features and profiles a person, a group, an idea, or an object that "for better or for worse... has done the most to influence the events of the year". 

On that definition I have no argument with their choice.

And in any case, does it disprove the claim that brexit Britain is a laughing stock? 

Nope. It is in fact, a first class case of whataboutery

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12 hours ago, Silas said:

Hmmmm, you appear to have missed the point.

The evidence you've provided for what the World thinks of us, is the same publication that voted Trump Person of the Year. (Finalists that year also included Nigel Farage and Vladimir Putin)

I think I'll take their opinion with a huge dumper truck of salt thanks.  

You understand that Time nominate the person based on influence rather than perceived achievement or goodness?

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I don't know how proof could possibly be found but I'm absolutely certain that, as a result of Brexit, Britain is a laughing stock worldwide and particularly in the EU, who have seen first-hand and up front how hopelessly unprepared for the Brexit negotiations we were. 

To their credit they pity us rather than despise us but , no question, our role in the world is  diminished.

How anyone could think we'll be able to negotiate better trade deals with the rest of the world than we could get as members of the EU is utterly beyond me.

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12 minutes ago, 47er said:

I don't know how proof could possibly be found but I'm absolutely certain that, as a result of Brexit, Britain is a laughing stock

On a French skiing holiday this year, warm sunny day eating outside at a mountain restaurant at lunchtime, one of our lot walking back to the table slipped ar** over *** with his meal.

Amid much hilarity, including us, the 3 tables around us, about 24 people, mainly French, stood up and toasted our unfortunate colleague with a very loud B-R-E-X-I-I-I-T-T-T 

We are a joke. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Mike E said:

You understand that Time nominate the person based on influence rather than perceived achievement or goodness?

Is there an echo in here? 

Fair enough, that would maybe explain the Hitler win. 

Regardless,  I'm not getting my knickers in a twist over some satire on the front of a mag.

And I find it sad hearing comments about how far we have sunk as a nation. Particularly as we mark the D-Day anniversary and remember the sacrifices and losses of past generations. It seems some people have very short memories. 

People saying things like I'm embarrassed of our nation. Are you kidding me?!

I'm not. I'm proud of our nation. I'm proud of what we've contributed to Europe in so many ways over the last century.  Both financially, economically, and physically in literally putting our bodies on the line to defend it. 

My feelings are best summed up by a German in this article:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6625529/ALEX-VON-SCHOENBURG-Germans-owe-Britain-great-debt.html?ico=amp-comments-addcomment#article-6625529

 

And how has the EU, as a collective, repayed us for all these contributions we've made over the decades? Well, as far as I can tell at the moment, with threats, intimidation and bullying.

Are they doing anything to try and keep us? Nope.

It's epitomized by Juncker's comments on the eve of the referendum where he issued threats to our nation like some sort of headmaster talking to naughty schoolchildren about misbehaviour:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300

And Macron pipes in too, like the beardy supply teacher hiding behind said headmaster.  

Now, surely a clever leader and politician, knowing that they're about to lose one of the major players in their organisation, which would weaken the whole operation, (and regardless of how you lot dress it up, that's a fact, they're severely diminished without us) , would box a bit clever no?

Maybe issue a statement urging the British people to stay with Europe,  we're all stronger together, let's keep as a team, continue the good work that's already been done, etc etc.

But no. That's not their style is it. Their arrogance just won't let them and they like to rule with an iron fist, let's make sure these lot know who's boss and chuck some threats out there, keep all the peasants in line. 

And pretty much every single one of their actions in the past 3 years has followed that trend, and backed up the MO. 

Now, I can't speak for everyone obviously,  but all you clamouring for answers, desperately looking for the reason it's gone this way, I can bet there's a hell of a lot out there feel the same way as me.

I've got pretty far in my life, and been pretty successful, and I've done it all by sticking vehemently to a set of valued principles. And one of them has been when folk try to bully, threaten, and intimidate me, those people are very swiftly manouvered to the sidelines. Never to enter my arena again if I can make it so.

And on the old tired line of immigration and racism. Seriously people, take a look at the EU comission:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/commissioners/2014-2019_en

Are people seriously trying to claim a vote against that picture is racist?!

FFS, there's not a black or ethnic face to be seen. It's a bunch of smug, self-serving, over-privileged white people who've been lording it over us for far too long. 

So, there's an answer for the swarm to feed on. You can crack on with your insults now. Matters not to me. For the record, if we do leave, of course the  UK is going to be worse off out the EU, it's a no brainer. Not as bad as some would try to paint though.(I mean c'mon,  the car industry has been on road to ruin for years). And the EU will also be considerably worse off without us. 

Which is all very sad. But sometimes in life you gotta take the hits to do what you think is right. I wish it weren't so. But as old phrase goes, it takes 2 to tango. And the EU have had countless opportunites to try and avoid this. They've chosen not to offer an olive branch. If a 2nd referendum does go ahead, I truly believe some of you are in for a shock. If anything, the last 3 years have just strengthened some people's views. Henning Wehn probably sums it up best:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DjxtB8f4WcIw&ved=2ahUKEwiR_vG9wtjiAhWyo3EKHeNqD_8QwqsBMAB6BAgGEAU&usg=AOvVaw0Z0Q7po7YJPXAgwke-Bjny

 

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Sorry Silas Britain is a very sick joke in the world today.

Before 2016, just saying you were British automatically gave people a level of respect.

Today, I get far more respect saying I live in Malta than saying I am British.

The automatic reaction for saying you are British now is pity followed by ridicule. 

Only the British fail to see that Brexit is the biggest load of bollocks.

Who supports Brexit outside the UK? Trump and Putin? Both of them utterly despised globally.

 

 

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Very interesting results coming out of analyses of the European Elections.

Brexit Party claim (lying) that people who voted Leave in 2016 voted for No Deal.

Well if you compare the drop in % age vote for Leave in 2016 with the %age vote for Brexit Party two weeks ago 

ALL the biggest decreases are in poorer areas and 8 of the 20 biggest drops between Leave and Brexit votes are in the North West with Blackburn with Darwen an honourable 5th for biggest drop in pro-Brexit sympathy.

It is increasingly clear that wealthy Brexiters are the ones who are OK with No Deal while people who are struggling are the ones who are switching the most away from Brexit if it means No Deal.

People think of "Posh" Peterborough but actually there is a lot of poverty there and this probably explains why Farage fell so spectacularly on his face there. 

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45 minutes ago, philipl said:

Very interesting results coming out of analyses of the European Elections.

Brexit Party claim (lying) that people who voted Leave in 2016 voted for No Deal.

Well if you compare the drop in % age vote for Leave in 2016 with the %age vote for Brexit Party two weeks ago 

ALL the biggest decreases are in poorer areas and 8 of the 20 biggest drops between Leave and Brexit votes are in the North West with Blackburn with Darwen an honourable 5th for biggest drop in pro-Brexit sympathy.

It is increasingly clear that wealthy Brexiters are the ones who are OK with No Deal while people who are struggling are the ones who are switching the most away from Brexit if it means No Deal.

People think of "Posh" Peterborough but actually there is a lot of poverty there and this probably explains why Farage fell so spectacularly on his face there. 

Surely those who are living in relative poverty are the ones most likely to step back from the risk of no deal when they consider all of the fake scare stories in the context of their daily lives. Natural reaction I would say.

Equally the remoaners are holding their breath for a hardliner getting into No10 and delivering on democracy. And so it should be. And so it will be.

I see you slagging off the UK again above. 

Perhaps you should describe yourself as "adopted Maltese with a UK pension" to avoid any further ridicule.

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2 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Surely those who are living in relative poverty are the ones most likely to step back from the risk of no deal when they consider all of the fake scare stories in the context of their daily lives. Natural reaction I would say.

Equally the remoaners are holding their breath for a hardliner getting into No10 and delivering on democracy. And so it should be. And so it will be.

I see you slagging off the UK again above. 

Perhaps you should describe yourself as "adopted Maltese with a UK pension" to avoid any further ridicule.

This is just empty waffling.

No substance, no logic, no evidence.

 

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7 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

 

Equally the remoaners are holding their breath for a hardliner getting into No10 and delivering on democracy. And so it should be. And so it will be.

 

 

hows that going to happen then? Parliament won’t allow a no deal brexit and there’s no deal acceptable to the hard liners.

Democracy 😂. You brexiteers haven’t given anything that Parliament could possibly pass.

Edited by den

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Remain warned there would inevitably be job losses.

We were dismissed as project fear.

So no way can Brexiters lie like Leadsom argue that the Referendum was about No Deal with winners and losers. They denied there would be any losers.

 

DMACK tyre boss scraps plan for new £200m factory in Carlisle - and blames Brexit

AMBITIOUS plans to build a £200m tyre factory, creating up to 500 jobs, in Carlisle have been scrapped.

Dick Cormack, the man behind tyre brand DMACK, which once supplied the World Rally Championship, has instead moved his business to Italy.

The former Pirelli manager blamed Brexit for the decision, saying it was one he was forced to take after a key partner pulled out.

The news comes after it emerged that Mr Cormack’s UK sales operation is now in administration.

This business - Technology Sinon UK Ltd (formerly DMACK Global) - is now being offered for sale by national business rescue and recovery firm Leonard Curtis.

Mr Cormack said this part of the business was being wound down - but the DMACK brand is still being produced, from a new base in Italy.

“We’ve taken on a factory in Italy and are producing our tyres from there,” he explained.

“The business, DMACK SRL, moved to that location at the back end of last year.”

However he admitted that the £2m Carlisle factory proposal - which would have initially employed 70 to 100 people at a site in Kingmoor Park, eventually growing to 500 - has had to be scrapped.

Mr Cormack, founder of DMACK and majority shareholder, unveiled the ambitious back in 2016.

But he said business circumstances have since changed, forcing him to pull the plug.

“We were in partnership with Super Deal tyres but the Brexit vote ruined that.

“They are a US company. Once Brexit was announced, they pulled away from the deal. We’ve been looking for a manufacturing base since then,” he explained.

Mr Cormack said they had been working with a firm in Wiltshire, but that also fell through - prompting the move overseas.

“We were producing tyres in China when we started, then we had an agreement with Cooper Tyres in Melksham,” he said.

“They announced in October last year that they were winding their operations down in the UK. That’s when we decided to go down the Italian route.

“We’ve taken on a factory in Italy and are producing our tyres from there.”

He said the business moved to Rovereto, near Lake Garda, at the back end of last year.

He said they have since been winding the UK operation down and no longer employ anyone in Carlisle.

But he said he hopes to restore DMACK’s connection to the city in future.

“Once we start producing tyres in Italy in volume we will probably establish another sales office in Carlisle. At the moment we are concentrating on production in Italy, so that will probably be the beginning of 2020,” he said.

Mr Cormack, who still lives near Crosby-on-Eden, just outside Carlisle, said he was disappointed about the Kingmoor factory plan.

“It was a project that we really wanted to deliver on for the local economy, but it wasn’t achievable.

“We needed a major partner, but they pulled out because of Brexit, then the investors pulled out,” he said.

Mr Cormack added: “It’s regrettable that we’ve had to wind down our sales operations in Carlisle and move to Europe but sometimes in business tough decisions need to be taken when opportunities fail and new ones appear.

“Brexit has not helped us and our goal has always been to have our own manufacturing facility with total control. This is the opportunity that we have right now so we must take it and rebuild our business after a tough 2018.”

DMACK was an official supplier to the World Rally Championship (WRC) for several years and in 2016 launched its own DMACK World Rally Team.

But Mr Cormack said: “We decided to withdraw from the WRC at the end of 2017 after winning Rally GB.”

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I’d love a Brexiteer to tell me a few things without sound bites:

1. How does the EU work in terms of supposedly forcing legislation on us?

2. What about the current deal doesn’t work and how would it be better? As part of this question, I will assume any part of the deal not addressed is GOOD, so please be thorough.

3. Why do you think we would be better off as a lone state than as part of a bloc of united countries in a world which will see the US, China, and India as its major powers (none of whom are economic partners and protectors in the same way the EU is)?

Edited by Mike E

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3 hours ago, philipl said:

Remain warned there would inevitably be job losses.

We were dismissed as project fear.

So no way can Brexiters lie like Leadsom argue that the Referendum was about No Deal with winners and losers. They denied there would be any losers.

 

DMACK tyre boss scraps plan for new £200m factory in Carlisle - and blames Brexit

AMBITIOUS plans to build a £200m tyre factory, creating up to 500 jobs, in Carlisle have been scrapped.

Dick Cormack, the man behind tyre brand DMACK, which once supplied the World Rally Championship, has instead moved his business to Italy.

The former Pirelli manager blamed Brexit for the decision, saying it was one he was forced to take after a key partner pulled out.

The news comes after it emerged that Mr Cormack’s UK sales operation is now in administration.

This business - Technology Sinon UK Ltd (formerly DMACK Global) - is now being offered for sale by national business rescue and recovery firm Leonard Curtis.

Mr Cormack said this part of the business was being wound down - but the DMACK brand is still being produced, from a new base in Italy.

“We’ve taken on a factory in Italy and are producing our tyres from there,” he explained.

“The business, DMACK SRL, moved to that location at the back end of last year.”

However he admitted that the £2m Carlisle factory proposal - which would have initially employed 70 to 100 people at a site in Kingmoor Park, eventually growing to 500 - has had to be scrapped.

Mr Cormack, founder of DMACK and majority shareholder, unveiled the ambitious back in 2016.

But he said business circumstances have since changed, forcing him to pull the plug.

“We were in partnership with Super Deal tyres but the Brexit vote ruined that.

“They are a US company. Once Brexit was announced, they pulled away from the deal. We’ve been looking for a manufacturing base since then,” he explained.

Hi Project Fear! 👋

Unfortunately for you I have a fair bit of knowledge on this story.

And Mr Cormack is being a tad economical with the truth. 

Last month one of his companies went into administration with an £8.5 million hole in it.

One of his other companies is currently sat with a £7 million hole in it.

Now, I wonder what put all these investors off this magical £200 million factory?!

Brexit or his drastically failing businesses?

But it's a lot easier to point blame elsewhere than admit your own failings in life. Human nature I suppose. 

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1 hour ago, Silas said:

Hi Project Fear! 👋

Unfortunately for you I have a fair bit of knowledge on this story.

And Mr Cormack is being a tad economical with the truth. 

Last month one of his companies went into administration with an £8.5 million hole in it.

One of his other companies is currently sat with a £7 million hole in it.

Now, I wonder what put all these investors off this magical £200 million factory?!

Brexit or his drastically failing businesses?

But it's a lot easier to point blame elsewhere than admit your own failings in life. Human nature I suppose. 

Well we either take the word of Cormack who owns the company and knows the reasons, or we take your word for it who doesn’t?

Is that right?

 

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23 hours ago, Silas said:

 

And I find it sad hearing comments about how far we have sunk as a nation. Particularly as we mark the D-Day anniversary and remember the sacrifices and losses of past generations. It seems some people have very short memories. 

Comparing D-Day with Brexit is silly

People saying things like I'm embarrassed of our nation. Are you kidding me?!

Nope. Brexit is an embarrassment.  Travel round Europe and talk to people - they're laughing at us

I'm not. I'm proud of our nation. I'm proud of what we've contributed to Europe in so many ways over the last century.  Both financially, economically, and physically in literally putting our bodies on the line to defend it. 

I was proud - but the last 3 years have been excruciating. The country is in deep turmoil in a problem of its own making.

And how has the EU, as a collective, repayed us for all these contributions we've made over the decades? Well, as far as I can tell at the moment, with threats, intimidation and bullying.

Barnier has constantly reminded the UK that the EU is a rules based organisation.  

Are they doing anything to try and keep us? Nope.

Why should they? They don't want us to leave but they'd get along fine without us

It's epitomized by Juncker's comments on the eve of the referendum where he issued threats to our nation like some sort of headmaster talking to naughty schoolchildren about misbehaviour:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36599300

Juncker was spot on - we could not get a better deal than the deal we currently have.   

And Macron pipes in too, like the beardy supply teacher hiding behind said headmaster. 

Macron is fed up with perfidious Albion - and after our antics over the past 3 years I don't blame him 

Now, surely a clever leader and politician, knowing that they're about to lose one of the major players in their organisation, which would weaken the whole operation, (and regardless of how you lot dress it up, that's a fact, they're severely diminished without us) , would box a bit clever no?

Maybe issue a statement urging the British people to stay with Europe,  we're all stronger together, let's keep as a team, continue the good work that's already been done, etc etc.

Tusk has said many times that the door is always open to rescinding Article 50. 

But no. That's not their style is it. Their arrogance just won't let them and they like to rule with an iron fist, let's make sure these lot know who's boss and chuck some threats out there, keep all the peasants in line. 

We decided to leave the club.  What do you expect?

Now, I can't speak for everyone obviously,  but all you clamouring for answers, desperately looking for the reason it's gone this way, I can bet there's a hell of a lot out there feel the same way as me.

And there's many people who would gladly cancel Brexit tomorrow and get back to the real problems facing the UK

I've got pretty far in my life, and been pretty successful, and I've done it all by sticking vehemently to a set of valued principles. And one of them has been when folk try to bully, threaten, and intimidate me, those people are very swiftly manouvered to the sidelines. Never to enter my arena again if I can make it so.

No one is "bullying, threatening or intimidating" anyone 

FFS, there's not a black or ethnic face to be seen. It's a bunch of smug, self-serving, over-privileged white people who've been lording it over us for far too long. 

Which EU laws have affected you over the past 3 years ?  I'll give you the answer - none

So, there's an answer for the swarm to feed on. You can crack on with your insults now. Matters not to me. For the record, if we do leave, of course the  UK is going to be worse off out the EU, it's a no brainer.

You've lost the plot here.  if the UK is "going to worse off " why would anyone be in favour of leaving?  It doesn't make any sense.

Not as bad as some would try to paint though.(I mean c'mon,  the car industry has been on road to ruin for years). And the EU will also be considerably worse off without us.

This is rubbish. The UK car industry has been  a big success story in recent years. 

Which is all very sad. But sometimes in life you gotta take the hits to do what you think is right.

So jumping off a cliff is good for your health? 

 And the EU have had countless opportunites to try and avoid this. They've chosen not to offer an olive branch.

The EU has said many times that it would rather the UK cancelled Brexit

 

 

Please provide a vision of the sunny uplands of post-Brexit Britain - I'd love to know because Leavers have never been able to explain it to me

Edited by jim mk2

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16 hours ago, Mike E said:

I’d love a Brexiteer to tell me a few things without sound bites:

1. How does the EU work in terms of supposedly forcing legislation on us?

2. What about the current deal doesn’t work and how would it be better? As part of this question, I will assume any part of the deal not addressed is GOOD, so please be thorough.

3. Why do you think we would be better off as a lone state than as part of a bloc of united countries in a world which will see the US, China, and India as its major powers (none of whom are economic partners and protectors in the same way the EU is)?

Re your point 1, have Brexiteers never heard of the veto? Perhaps they should be asking why the things they hate so much were allowed through by a Leave-supporting government? Then again they probably have no idea what they hated, just the EU which is the cause of all our problems. :wacko:

Edited by 47er

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23 minutes ago, den said:

Well we either take the word of Cormack who owns the company and knows the reasons, or we take your word for it who doesn’t?

Is that right?

 

Yeah, company owners are renowned for telling the gospel truth. 

Don't take my word for it. Do your own research.

Or have a think about it.

These investors won't back him cos of Brexit right? But he's moving his operation to Italy. Which, last time I checked was in the EU. So surely they'll back him there right? But no, they're nowhere to be seen. 

This guys business model for the last decade or so has been to manufacture tyres in China. He's never employed more than a handful of people in this country at a satellite admin office.

Now he's racked up a tens of millions in creditor debts he wants someone to blame for it all.

He sold everyone a pipe dream that he never had the capability to pull off.

Fair play to him, aim big and all that, that's what entrepeneurship is about.

But it's been listed in this thread calling Brexiteers liars, and using it as a case study to PROVE mass job losses.

I've called it out as bullshit. And I stand by it.

I mean for a start it's not even job losses, it was potential job opportunities and growth. But whatever.

Take the loss and move on.

You're making yourselves look foolish now.  

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