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Not interested Chaddy, pretty meaningless stuff. I’d be more interested if you were debating the pros or cons of a debate.

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6 minutes ago, den said:

Not interested Chaddy, pretty meaningless stuff. I’d be more interested if you were debating the pros or cons of a debate.

Meaningless stuff? How? 

The polls are repeating the same results even Philipl agreed this morning. Its not looking good for Labour.  

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2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Meaningless stuff? How? 

 

Because I can read the polls every day. What I can’t read every day is how brexiteers think they’re going to be practically better off after brexit.

Edited by den

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1 hour ago, den said:

Because I can read the polls every day. What I can’t read every day is how brexiteers think they’re going to be practically better off after brexit.

You mean you don't want a shiny new blue passport ?

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Meaningless stuff? How? 

The polls are repeating the same results even Philipl agreed this morning. Its not looking good for Labour.  

Did you see the polls before the last 3 elections? And before the referendum?

None correlated with the result all that well (or at all more recently).

Ie: Polls = Meaningless 

Edited by Mike E

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There is a problem of genuine anti-Semitism in Labour but it is tiny compared with the anti- Islam issues in the Tories. 

The reason why Labour have so many headlines are the media link it to key Labour personalities' embrace of highly dubious and unsavoury Palestinian groups which then gets morphed to Venezuela, appearances on Russia Today and so on.

For me the crunch is this ought not to be a big issue for Labour but it has been monstrously badly mismanaged by Corbyn. It should have been decisively nipped in the bud but it has dragged on interminably creating ever bigger problems. On this basis, Corbyn couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag.

Really distressing seeing the open sewer that is this Tory Government and a Labour opposition which is off the scale incompetent.

 

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9 hours ago, philipl said:

Netanyahou has done an enormous disservice to Israel and all people of the Jewish faith by labelling any criticism of his vile corrupt regime "anti-semitic".

Having said that, significant elements of the British hard left are instinctively anti-semitic in the traditional usage of the term. 

and the hard right?...

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Nigel Farage softens stance in attempt to form pact with Tories (Guardian headline)

Its started!!!!  

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10 hours ago, 47er said:

and the hard right?...

see the post immediately before. You are right that the hard right are also nastily and deeply anti-semitic.

This is why I am at a loss to understand how Corbyn has managed to mishandle this problem to the extent it has become a monster problem for Labour.

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13 hours ago, den said:

Because I can read the polls every day. What I can’t read every day is how brexiteers think they’re going to be practically better off after brexit.

I don’t know anyone who voted to leave with money as an issue. I know you’d like it to be that way so you can argue the toss.

i couldn’t care less about your fiscal predictions, had no bearing on my vote 

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Just now, Sparks Rover said:

I don’t know anyone who voted to leave with money as an issue. I know you’d like it to be that way so you can argue the toss.

i couldn’t care less about your fiscal predictions, had no bearing on my vote 

Shameful post, whether we would be richer or poorer in or out of Europe was a huge issue for anyone who put a modicum of thought into which way they voted

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Just now, jim mk2 said:

Shameful post, whether we would be richer or poorer in or out of Europe was a huge issue for anyone who put a modicum of thought into which way they voted

No it wasn’t.  

The government told everyone how it would be financial suicide if people voted to leave.  You couldn’t avoid the propaganda.  Yet the vote was to leave......proving people either don’t care about the financial implications or just don’t believe what they are told by politicians.

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Or are so stupid they’d happily vote to make themselves poorer. And the government was right, GDP has grown less than expected since 2016, which means we are all worse off. Growth is virtually at a standstill at present.

 I guess you’re right in one respect. Some working class folk vote Tory, so they obviously approve of the transfer of wealth from labour to capital. Turkeys and Christmas come to mind. 

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15 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Meaningless stuff? How? 

The polls are repeating the same results even Philipl agreed this morning. Its not looking good for Labour.  

This election is going to be the end of the labour party.

They basically don't represent anyone in the Brexit divide and their leader is universally viewed as unelectable.

Their only possible way out is a coup and a firm leave policy. Not happening.

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Nick Robinson is a good homest reporter. 

SNP wont want to talk about their record in Scotland on NHS? Wonder why? 

Conservativies wont sell the NHS to the US! simple as. Its political suicide to do so. Just another Labour/SNP myth and tactic to scared people..

Edited by chaddyrovers

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1 hour ago, philipl said:

see the post immediately before. You are right that the hard right are also nastily and deeply anti-semitic.

This is why I am at a loss to understand how Corbyn has managed to mishandle this problem to the extent it has become a monster problem for Labour.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/09/jews-brexit-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn

 

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2 hours ago, philipl said:

see the post immediately before. You are right that the hard right are also nastily and deeply anti-semitic.

This is why I am at a loss to understand how Corbyn has managed to mishandle this problem to the extent it has become a monster problem for Labour.

The Labour Party leadership probably had the same difficulty with this issue as I do. IE it's a minor issue within the party that has been blown up out of all proportion to the reality of the situation. Apparently there a tiny number of Labour Party members that are anti semites.  There are probably a few members that believe in re-incarnation or that the earth is flat. It's a massive party and the people that join it possibly have all sorts of ideas, crazy or otherwise. What I don't believe is that the party is full of people who dislike Jews or it's institutionally racist. That's a disgraceful slur on the party and the left in general. Let's just remind ourselves who was it that was battling alongside Jewish groups in the struggles against  Mosley's Fascists and the later British Fascists movements in the 1950's,60's and 70's. It certainly wasn't the Tories or their pals in the gutter press. I know because I was there in the 60's and 70's.

What was going on was a two fold assault on the Labour Movement. On one hand you have the right wing of the Labour Party who had run the show for a long, long time.  They were used to having it all their own way. They didn't like Corbyn and co,  but what they like even less is the way the members took control and elected a leader who spoke for them instead of a leader who ignored them most of the time and only really took notice of them at election time. They needed a weapon to attack the leadership with. They couldn't attack the policies being put forward because they were proving popular with the members.So they attacked on grounds of personality.

On the other hand you have the Israeli government and it's friends within the British establishment. They also have an axe to grind with Corbyn regarding his sympathy with the plight of the Palestinians. Their worst nightmare would a Corbyn government adopting a more even handed policy with regard to the Middle East as opposed to the sucking up to Israel we've had for the last 50 years. Given that fact the wheels were put in motion to begin a campaign to ensure Corbyn and co were going to be attacked relentlessly. To their eternal shame some members of the Labour Party have joined this campaign. I take " The Guardian " every day and I see Jonathan Freedland was at it again today.

So you have a coalition of two forces both combining to trash Corbyn's reputation, and that of the broader left,  for their own personal interests. The drip, drip, drip of allegations has been hard to combat because it's hard for the left to get a fair hearing in the media at the moment. You get " The Daily Mail ", which was Hitler's biggest supporter in this country when Jews were actually being rounded up and killed in Germany having the temerity to criticise the left who were doing their best to take on the Fascists at that time.

Nobody is going to tell me that the Labour Party of Blair and Brown has suddenly become a hot bed of Jew haters. I'm not that easily fooled.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

I don’t know anyone who voted to leave with money as an issue. I know you’d like it to be that way so you can argue the toss.

i couldn’t care less about your fiscal predictions, had no bearing on my vote 

You didn’t see the big red bus  offering us an extra £350m a week at the head of vote leaves campaign then? Or the arguments about growth being higher outside the EU?

Edited by den

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26 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

This election is going to be the end of the labour party.

They basically don't represent anyone in the Brexit divide and their leader is universally viewed as unelectable.

Their only possible way out is a coup and a firm leave policy. Not happening.

A large majority of Labour Party members voted remain as did  a majority of Labour voters so I can't see the party ever going down the leave route.

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14 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You mean you don't want a shiny new blue passport ?

Chaddy's lost his sovereignty and he wants it back----NOW!!!

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

A large majority of Labour Party members voted remain as did  a majority of Labour voters

Fake news. You can’t possibly know this, so stop your bullshit/propaganda 

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