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Just now, only2garners said:

I will need an ETIAS by 2022 though.

I shouldn't worry to much it will be doubtless be pushed back again by the incompetent bureaucrats in Brussels. That's if it ever see the light of day at all. 

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Ok, you have Morecambe. Nobodies making it more difficult for you to go there. You've just made it more difficult for me to go to Spain.

 

43 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

No one is stopping you from going to Spain, you could travel there before we joined the Common Market and you will be able to continue to in the future. You just may have to pay a bit more insurance and may have to cue for a bit longer before you can soak up the sun. What a terrible problem to have.

So you agree it will be more difficult to go to Spain then?

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47 minutes ago, only2garners said:

Morecambe Bay is indeed lovely but travel insurance is just as wise for UK holidays as for overseas and you would have to pay me to use PG Tips and Bisto. And right now I don't need a visa to go to the EU.

Snob :P

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2 minutes ago, Dreyski said:

So you agree it will be more difficult to go to Spain then?

I wouldn't say it will be more difficult no. Was it ever difficult to travel to Spain before we joined the Common Market? No. What it may mean is a few additional minor inconveniences such as queuing for a bit longer. But if queuing a bit longer for a holiday in Spain is your biggest problem in life then you aren't doing to bad. 

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38 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I wouldn't say it will be more difficult no. Was it ever difficult to travel to Spain before we joined the Common Market? No. What it may mean is a few additional minor inconveniences such as queuing for a bit longer. But if queuing a bit longer for a holiday in Spain is your biggest problem in life then you aren't doing to bad. 

So once again we've gone from 

2016: Brexit will be amazing and full of opportunities 

To 

2020: oh, its not that bad, stop your moaning. 

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47 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I wouldn't say it will be more difficult no. Was it ever difficult to travel to Spain before we joined the Common Market? No. What it may mean is a few additional minor inconveniences such as queuing for a bit longer. But if queuing a bit longer for a holiday in Spain is your biggest problem in life then you aren't doing to bad. 

The only person suggesting it's a big issue is you.

He said it's 'more difficult'. However minor those difficulties you list are, they're still there and therefore proving him right that it's 'more difficult to go to Spain.

I'd pick a different hill to die on.

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From the "left wing" Financial Times 

British business faces £7bn red tape bill under Brexit border plan

https://www.ft.com/content/fbc6f191-6d69-4dcb-b374-0fa6e48a9a1e

This is just the start of the new bureaucracy and red tape costs.   

But at least there won’t be any EU red tape..... just glorious British red, white and blue tape. 

Can someone shed some light on the benefits of all this?

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8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some great places to visit in the UK. I loved my weekend in Llandudno in February. I was set to go Scarborough in 10 days time but we have rearrange for year after due to Coronavirus   

 

However they do say "travel broadens the mind"......

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£705m on border posts to screw up everybody's lives and now this:

image.png.baffd9161d9b6f1134d7a3ee56809c5e.png

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Posted (edited)

And let's not forget that Government is only now working out the details so British people and business are still in the dark about what happens on 1 January 2021 because Government hasn't a clue either.

A 206 page Border Operating Model was issued yesterday.

"Model" 

As in rough draft which needs finishing with no idea how it scales up to the real thing.

Oh and it promises a new app (Government code for £12m for Cummings mates to do nothing except waste all our time with massive adverse consequences in the real world). No doubt it will be "World Beating" ROFL

Oh and by the way not one contract has been signed for anything for the between 10 and 12 PHYSICAL LORRY AND VEHICLE INSPECTION SITES needed around the UK.

Yes we don't even know how many of these massively complex logistical centres the UK needs 110 working days from now, never mind getting planning permission or competitively tendered. then built, then linked to the road network in such a way you cannot switch lorries and plates round the corner between centre and port... 

It will all be corrupt as hell - we can be sure of that. 

 

Which all goes to show Brexit really is bollocks- Government is proving it each and every day.

Global Britain is as big a lie as £350m a week for the NHS.

I was going to suggest paint it on a bus but its in a lorry park yet to be built... 

Edited by philipl

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Posted (edited)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/13/surprise-post-brexit-britains-foreign-policy-looks-lot-like-old-one/?utm_campaign=wp_opinions_pm&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_popns

Two things are clear.

The low tax, open borders, free trade with all Tories have been routed by the protectionist English identity Tories.

Austerity misery inflicted on every Briton is now something the Tories disown and have forgotten about and public finances can go to hell in a hand cart.

Global Britain is a myth too.

Edited by philipl

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5 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

From the "left wing" Financial Times 

British business faces £7bn red tape bill under Brexit border plan

https://www.ft.com/content/fbc6f191-6d69-4dcb-b374-0fa6e48a9a1e

This is just the start of the new bureaucracy and red tape costs.   

But at least there won’t be any EU red tape..... just glorious British red, white and blue tape. 

Can someone shed some light on the benefits of all this?

The benefit like you said is that it's not foreign. 

Just to spell it out for brexiters, 7bn bill for businesses will ultimately be passed on to the consumer. So that's another £100 a year we'll be paying out. 

Which will be countered with "yeah well at least you're not paying out a grand"

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I appreciate this is a left leaning message board and more remain than leave (although still a good number of leavers) but the only argument back at remain at the moment is 'it's not that bad' 

Can anyone actually say what the positives of this brexit are? Not the Brexit they thought they were voting for but this actual Brexit that is happening now. 

I had an open mind when we voted leave as I was very on the fence with my vote but very little since the vote has pulled me towards thinking leave is a good idea. 

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48 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

I appreciate this is a left leaning message board and more remain than leave (although still a good number of leavers) but the only argument back at remain at the moment is 'it's not that bad' 

Can anyone actually say what the positives of this brexit are? Not the Brexit they thought they were voting for but this actual Brexit that is happening now. 

I had an open mind when we voted leave as I was very on the fence with my vote but very little since the vote has pulled me towards thinking leave is a good idea. 

I think that what people voted for (52% that is) was a separation from Europe with much else unchanged. That is after all what the likes of Gove and Johnson promised.

Not part of EU but enjoying the same privileges without paying anything.

Easiest agreement possible it was said. We were the 5th biggest economy in the world and EU countries would be gagging to keep us sweet.

Now that's its obvious this won't be happening, the Government is hardly going to admit they got such a huge issue wrong so we are now going for the only alternative left---crashing out with no deal and with no trade deals of any standing completed,(although there were plenty of optimistic promises about that too).

This is not what people voted for. The British people have been lied to by a bunch of shysters and we are sleepwalking into disaster. Add the coronavirus to the scenario and its clear that ordinary people are in for unprecedentedly hard times  for years  ahead.

 

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15 minutes ago, 47er said:

I think that what people voted for (52% that is) was a separation from Europe with much else unchanged. That is after all what the likes of Gove and Johnson promised.

Not part of EU but enjoying the same privileges without paying anything.

Easiest agreement possible it was said. We were the 5th biggest economy in the world and EU countries would be gagging to keep us sweet.

Now that's its obvious this won't be happening, the Government is hardly going to admit they got such a huge issue wrong so we are now going for the only alternative left---crashing out with no deal and with no trade deals of any standing completed,(although there were plenty of optimistic promises about that too).

This is not what people voted for. The British people have been lied to by a bunch of shysters and we are sleepwalking into disaster. Add the coronavirus to the scenario and its clear that ordinary people are in for unprecedentedly hard times  for years  ahead.

 

The narrative has certainly changed from 

"Theres no way we wont get a trade deal with the EU that's just project fear to suggest we wont"

To

"We dont need a deal, bloody remoaners" 

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35 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

The narrative has certainly changed from 

"Theres no way we wont get a trade deal with the EU that's just project fear to suggest we wont"

To

"We dont need a deal, bloody remoaners" 

A lot has changed eh? 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, 47er said:

However they do say "travel broadens the mind"......

There's nowhere nicer than the UK to holiday but for one thing - The weather ! It's amazingly unpredictable in this country. I remember holidaying in a caravan in Wales many years ago. It rained every day and we came home a couple of days early, it was miserable. You can't enjoy a holiday in the rain, especially if you have young kids. Nobody has ever been able to tell me what week will be rain free at any point in the year in the UK. Just look at the last few weeks.

By contrast in the Spanish village we holiday in they have three mini fiestas in August. They can plan for them all year around knowing full well it won't rain. In fact they have pipes running through the awnings spraying a fine mist of water to keep people cool in the heat of the afternoon.

I've always relied on the being able to access the free medical treatment out in Spain on the couple of occasions my wife and I have needed it, now it's going to cost us a fair old wedge to take out extra travel insurance. No doubt the Insurance companies are rubbing their hands with glee.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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13 hours ago, RoverDom said:

So once again we've gone from 

2016: Brexit will be amazing and full of opportunities 

To 

2020: oh, its not that bad, stop your moaning. 

To be honest whether or not the chattering classes may have to queue a bit longer when of on their European jollies was never a worry for me when voting leave.

 

8 hours ago, 47er said:

However they do say "travel broadens the mind"......

And travelling beyond Europe broadens it even more.

 

1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

I appreciate this is a left leaning message board and more remain than leave (although still a good number of leavers) but the only argument back at remain at the moment is 'it's not that bad' 

Can anyone actually say what the positives of this brexit are? Not the Brexit they thought they were voting for but this actual Brexit that is happening now. 

I had an open mind when we voted leave as I was very on the fence with my vote but very little since the vote has pulled me towards thinking leave is a good idea. 

I'm on the left, I voted, leave and I still would. That's not to say though that the Tories haven't made a complete pigs ear of it under two different leaders, neither of whom believe in Brexit. 

However even a bad Brexit which this government is presiding over is still better than being stuck in the EU. Firstly we have control of our own borders, now again I have problems with the government's immigration policies but it is infinitely better than the EU's freedom of movement.

We are able now to protect our own industries such as one that has been mentioned on here recently the fishing industry. It was absolutely preposterous that just one Dutch fishing ship was entitled to catch 23% of our entire quota. Workers and industry will undoubtedly benefit from Brexit if we want something to be built in Britain then it will be built in Britain, if we don't want a repeat of Kraft and Cadbury's then we can stop it and we are no longer restricted by the EU state aid rules. We can now make our own treaties and trade deals rather than being stuck in European ones, for example as soon as Trump is out of the White House TTIP or something very similar but rebranded will be back on the table and that would have been extremely bad for Britain. Then of course there is the biggest thing all encompassing thing of all and that is Sovereignty.

The EU is a rigid cartel that won't ever change from it's neo liberal ideology and that will be it's downfall in the future and while the faces may change one thing doesn't and that is that they are neo liberal bureaucrats. This is far from the Brexit that I would have liked but any Brexit is better than being stuck in the crumbling neo liberal cartel that is the European Union.

13 hours ago, Mike E said:

The only person suggesting it's a big issue is you.

He said it's 'more difficult'. However minor those difficulties you list are, they're still there and therefore proving him right that it's 'more difficult to go to Spain.

I'd pick a different hill to die on.

Only if you find queueing a bit longer difficult, I personally don't. Personally I don't think it is any easier to travel to Spain now than it was before we joined the common market and I see no reason why it will be after December 31st. It is just Remainer scaremongering. We travelled to Europe before we joined the Common Market and to this day people do still travel outside of the European Union (perish the thought) and it all runs perfectly smoothly. 

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2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I'm on the left, I voted, leave and I still would. That's not to say though that the Tories haven't made a complete pigs ear of it under two different leaders, neither of whom believe in Brexit. 

However even a bad Brexit which this government is presiding over is still better than being stuck in the EU. Firstly we have control of our own borders, now again I have problems with the government's immigration policies but it is infinitely better than the EU's freedom of movement.

We are able now to protect our own industries such as one that has been mentioned on here recently the fishing industry. It was absolutely preposterous that just one Dutch fishing ship was entitled to catch 23% of our entire quota. Workers and industry will undoubtedly benefit from Brexit if we want something to be built in Britain then it will be built in Britain, if we don't want a repeat of Kraft and Cadbury's then we can stop it and we are no longer restricted by the EU state aid rules. We can now make our own treaties and trade deals rather than being stuck in European ones, for example as soon as Trump is out of the White House TTIP or something very similar but rebranded will be back on the table and that would have been extremely bad for Britain. Then of course there is the biggest thing all encompassing thing of all and that is Sovereignty.

The EU is a rigid cartel that won't ever change from it's neo liberal ideology and that will be it's downfall in the future and while the faces may change one thing doesn't and that is that they are neo liberal bureaucrats. This is far from the Brexit that I would have liked but any Brexit is better than being stuck in the crumbling neo liberal cartel that is the European Union.

Immigration is potentially something that could turn out alright. It wasnt a massive issue for me cos although flawed as I understood it there was still a net benefit to the UK. However if done right, a new points based system could maybe do even better. I still think that when we want to negotiate trade with other countries, one of our biggest selling points will visas so I'm not sure how this might undermine the points based system. 

 

State-aid rules are a bit of a confusing one for me. As I understand it the UK has never really come close to breaching stateaid limits and countries like germany have spent way more in allowable stateaid than we have so I'm confused why boris is so against it when he's not taken full advantage of the current limits, my fear is that there is maybe some bad intentions and a desire to subsidise his acquaintances. 

Treaties and trade deals again I feel like this is one that's shifted. The narrative used to be "we can get any trade deal we want with anyone in the whole world" which has no changed to "dont worry, waitrose have said they wont sell chlorinated chicken and Australia have said we can have more cheap win". I feel like we'd stand a better chance of getting a decent trade deal if we're part of a bigger bloc rather than just a lone ranger - can you picture boris standing up to trump? 

On EU being a rigid cartel, maybe but I think we're just changing one lot of crooks in the EU for another lot of crooks in BoJo and Cummings. 

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The Office for Budget responsibility watchdog have painted a grim picture for UK moving forward and none of its down to Brexit.

They predict unemployment could hit 4 million over the next 12 months, GDP could take 5yrs to recover and the biggest peacetime deficit ever. 

We will see tax increases, cuts to services are inevitable and Brexit is responsible for none of it.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gav said:

The Office for Budget responsibility watchdog have painted a grim picture for UK moving forward and none of its down to Brexit.

They predict unemployment could hit 4 million over the next 12 months, GDP could take 5yrs to recover and the biggest peacetime deficit ever. 

We will see tax increases, cuts to services are inevitable and Brexit is responsible for none of it.

 

Good try but that's just nonsense as you probably know. Brexit is costing us a fortune already. The Brexiteers will try and hide the costs behind the costs of the virus but that won't wash for long.

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12 minutes ago, Gav said:

The Office for Budget responsibility watchdog have painted a grim picture for UK moving forward and none of its down to Brexit.

They predict unemployment could hit 4 million over the next 12 months, GDP could take 5yrs to recover and the biggest peacetime deficit ever. 

We will see tax increases, cuts to services are inevitable and Brexit is responsible for none of it.

And they said Corbyn would wreck the economy. Only one thing to blame this economic catastrophe on and that is Tory mismanagement and trying to build an economy on sand. 

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18 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Good try but that's just nonsense as you probably know. Brexit is costing us a fortune already. The Brexiteers will try and hide the costs behind the costs of the virus but that won't wash for long.

7bn on border control would have received a ton more negative attention had it not been lost in 300bn of covid costs. 

All the potential problems of a no deal brexit are gonna have billions chucked at them and it will get very little attention because of covid costs. We might ( but I doubt) have a seamless transition but I bet it costs a fortune. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Good try but that's just nonsense as you probably know. Brexit is costing us a fortune already. The Brexiteers will try and hide the costs behind the costs of the virus but that won't wash for long.

Specifically, to my original point:

Has Brexit lost us large numbers of jobs?

Has Brexit destroyed GDP?

Has Brexit caused the biggest peacetime deficit ever?

If the answer to those questions is a resounding NO, then it can't be nonsense TS, with respect. 

Just making the point....

 

Edited by Gav

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