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Milford has always been a complete economics nutter - he made no more sense in his “prime”. Now he at least performs a service as a metaphor for Brexit.

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53 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I see we are managing to piss the Chinese off over 5G, that market seems to be slipping away. We've obviously pissed off the EU. The Yanks will want us to bend over in the future. I suppose we can always sell more arms to our good friends in Saudia Arabia though.

2 countries you mention are just for your convenience.   Quite transparent really.   

I'm happy not to deal with a company owned by the Chinese Communist Party for our 5g infrastructure.   The EU are right on board with the communists there buiding theirs...Good luck to them, but I think they are fools in the long term. 

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I see we are managing to piss the Chinese off over 5G, that market seems to be slipping away. We've obviously pissed off the EU. The Yanks will want us to bend over in the future. I suppose we can always sell more arms to our good friends in Saudia Arabia though.

I saw that bumbling, incoherent Patrick Minford trying to defend Brexit on " Newsnight " earlier. If he's all you've got to cheerlead Brexit these days the game really is up.

Would that be the Patrick Minford who said Brexit would lead to the end of UK manufacturing but it would all be worth it?

Another Brexit dividend. 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

2 countries you mention are just for your convenience.   Quite transparent really.   

I'm happy not to deal with a company owned by the Chinese Communist Party for our 5g infrastructure.   The EU are right on board with the communists there buiding theirs...Good luck to them, but I think they are fools in the long term. 

There is only one fool in this instance and that is Boris Johnson. This is a terrible decision that will have bad far ranging consequences for this country in the future. With this government and the way that it is conducting itself we are in real danger of becoming nothing more than a client state of the USA, it wouldn't surprise if Tory back benchers soon start proposing that we become the 51st state.

Edited by Ewood Ace

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24 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

There is only one fool in this instance and that is Boris Johnson. This is a terrible decision that will have bad far ranging consequences for this country in the future. With this government and the way that it is conducting itself we are in real danger of becoming nothing more than a client state of the USA, it wouldn't surprise if Tory back benchers soon start proposing that we become the 51st state.

You would say that though 

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1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

You would say that though 

What's that supposed to mean?

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13 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

What's that supposed to mean?

You are pro china, so you are likely to criticise the government for binning Huawei.  Am i wrong?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, only2garners said:

Milford has always been a complete economics nutter - he made no more sense in his “prime”. Now he at least performs a service as a metaphor for Brexit.

He reached a new low last night. He was more or less incoherent. Every question put to him was answered by " Yes, but look at my pretty unicorn " style answers. 

I've got to smile that the people who wanted to " Take back control " are quite happy to sub contract our foreign policy decisions to Donald Trump. If it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious. Stay bent over guys, there's more to come.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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8 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

You are pro china, so you are likely to criticise the government for binning Huawei.  Am i wrong?

I criticise the government for this decision for a number of reasons. Firstly it is going to cost this country a lot of money and the economy is already in poor shape thanks to government mismanagement. It is going to put this country years behind other countries in terms of 5G. I also think that it is foolish to unnecessarily cause friction with the world's largest trading nation and soon to be world's largest economy at a time when we are leaving the EU and looking to do future trade deals. Also I see Trump this morning taking the credit for the decision, which only enhances my opinion of what I said about this country yesterday. Client State.

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3 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I criticise the government for this decision for a number of reasons. Firstly it is going to cost this country a lot of money and the economy is already in poor shape thanks to government mismanagement. It is going to put this country years behind other countries in terms of 5G. I also think that it is foolish to unnecessarily cause friction with the world's largest trading nation and soon to be world's largest economy at a time when we are leaving the EU and looking to do future trade deals. Also I see Trump this morning taking the credit for the decision, which only enhances my opinion of what I said about this country yesterday. Client State.

You are making out like key security officials from the U.K hadn't already come out and expressed concerns about the deal with China.

This wasn't like it was an easy decision to make for the government to allow it to begin with - it was always shrouded in controversy. The yanks didn't come in at the 11th hour and force our hand to change, the push to revoke the decision has been happening domestically too. 

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Todays " Guardian " has a new slogan for the Tories - "  Make Britain Lonely ". We're well on the way to becoming friendless in a very hostile world. It takes a specially talented sort of government to fall out with most of the rest of the developed world.

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23 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You are making out like key security officials from the U.K hadn't already come out and expressed concerns about the deal with China.

This wasn't like it was an easy decision to make for the government to allow it to begin with - it was always shrouded in controversy. The yanks didn't come in at the 11th hour and force our hand to change, the push to revoke the decision has been happening domestically too. 

Pretty clear that US persuasion was pivotal----summarised "if you want a trade deal drop China"

Hardly taking back control is it? EU is powerful enough to stand up to Trump----UK is not.

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28 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You are making out like key security officials from the U.K hadn't already come out and expressed concerns about the deal with China.

Is that the same China that are already providing for our 2G, 3G and 4G systems and who are helping to fund the building of Hinkley Point? 

 

10 minutes ago, 47er said:

Pretty clear that US persuasion was pivotal----summarised "if you want a trade deal drop China"

Hardly taking back control is it? EU is powerful enough to stand up to Trump----UK is not.

And that is what the right wing Brexiteers want for us to be the 51st state of the US. Johnson's action yesterday were a huge blow to the independent forward thinking nation that we could and should be in the post Brexit world. 

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3 minutes ago, 47er said:

Pretty clear that US persuasion was pivotal----summarised "if you want a trade deal drop China"

Hardly taking back control is it? EU is powerful enough to stand up to Trump----UK is not.

It's just patently not true 47er. What Trump says and what is reality are often two very different things, something you understand until a phrase of his suits your narrative.

Out of the countries in the European continent there are Denmark, Czech Republic, Italy and Poland all close to excluding Huawei from their 5G networks.

Countries in scandanavia have more or less chosen to go with other providers - let's not forget we have Samsung, Sony Erikson and Nokia all providing similar services.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei-tech-europe-exclusiv/exclusive-eu-considers-proposals-to-exclude-chinese-firms-from-5g-networks-idUSKCN1PO2MN

That is the EU themselves considering proposals to exclude them based on alternative companies, two of which are based on our continent.

Then you have a very close ally and Commonwealth member Australia who outlawed Huwaei long before us.

https://www.statista.com/chart/17528/countries-which-have-banned-huawei-products/

Gives you an indication of the amount of nations that have actually signed up to them, with most either on the fence or outlawed. The majority of central Europe are unlikely to ban but it will be interesting to see how many opt for their alternatives as proposed by almost all of their security agencies.

https://www.channele2e.com/business/enterprise/huawei-banned-in-which-countries/

Headlines relating to countries / companies regarding Huwaei. 

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Is that the same China that are already providing for our 2G, 3G and 4G systems and who are helping to fund the building of Hinkley Point? 

 

And that is what the right wing Brexiteers want for us to be the 51st state of the US. Johnson's action yesterday were a huge blow to the independent forward thinking nation that we could and should be in the post Brexit world. 

Let them fund Hinkley Point. 

In truth even if it is a politicial decision then good - what China are doing in Hong Kong and what they are doing to Uigher Muslims in their own country is nothing short of criminal, and if standing up to them means getting rid of their technology then so be it. They are a rogue state and not one I'd like to be linked with anyway. 

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1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Let them fund Hinkley Point. 

In truth even if it is a politicial decision then good - what China are doing in Hong Kong and what they are doing to Uigher Muslims in their own country is nothing short of criminal, and if standing up to them means getting rid of their technology then so be it. They are a rogue state and not one I'd like to be linked with anyway. 

Let them fund Hinkley Point you say, yet a few minutes ago you were worried about our security. So which is it?

Hong Kong is a part of China and its people are Chinese and I suggest you get used to that as that is the way it will stay. 

Sadly you seem to have swallowed the western MSM propaganda lines about when is happening Xinjiang, where the situation is much more complex and different to what they like to make out it is. But if it were a clear cut as they like to make out, I'd ask who are the UK to lecture anyone about treatment of Muslims when they have sown death and destruction across so much of the Muslim world.

China a rogue state😆. Tell me when did China last invade another country? When did China last help implement regime change in a country? When did China last bomb any country back into the stone age? Is it China or the US and its minions who have sent ships to conduct military exercises just outside of the others waters?  

China has shown remarkable restraint over the last few years in the face of plenty of aggression from the US and it's minions. But it won't continue to do so forever and nor should it.

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55 minutes ago, 47er said:

Pretty clear that US persuasion was pivotal----summarised "if you want a trade deal drop China"

Hardly taking back control is it? EU is powerful enough to stand up to Trump----UK is not.

Britain is just a pawn in a wider battle between the US and China. The US will likely lose its status as the world's most powerful nation within the next generation and will do anything to damage China.

This is all about US trade policy, our desperation to secure any trade deal with the US in the next few months, and nothing to do with our "national security".

'Because the US sanctions only affect future equipment, the government does not believe there is a security justification for removing 2G, 3G and 4G equipment supplied by Huawei.' - BBC

It merely underlines how pathetic this country has become. 

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I personally wouldn't trade with China on their human rights abuses alone, that also goes for the Saudis too.

The EU themselves left a member state Italy to rot in the first few weeks of covid19, that decision alone killed hundreds if not thousands of people, I'd not trade with them either.

 

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43 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Let them fund Hinkley Point you say, yet a few minutes ago you were worried about our security. So which is it?

Hong Kong is a part of China and its people are Chinese and I suggest you get used to that as that is the way it will stay. 

Sadly you seem to have swallowed the western MSM propaganda lines about when is happening Xinjiang, where the situation is much more complex and different to what they like to make out it is. But if it were a clear cut as they like to make out, I'd ask who are the UK to lecture anyone about treatment of Muslims when they have sown death and destruction across so much of the Muslim world.

China a rogue state😆. Tell me when did China last invade another country? When did China last help implement regime change in a country? When did China last bomb any country back into the stone age? Is it China or the US and its minions who have sent ships to conduct military exercises just outside of the others waters?  

China has shown remarkable restraint over the last few years in the face of plenty of aggression from the US and it's minions. But it won't continue to do so forever and nor should it.

On Hong Kong, China have been eroding the agreement with Britain over the handover for years. Now they have completely destroyed it by trampling over concepts like rule of law, independent judicial system and so on that were part of the agreement. It was supposed to be a city with more freedom of expression, with the kind of liberties we have here, but compromise over the legislature. 

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43 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Let them fund Hinkley Point you say, yet a few minutes ago you were worried about our security. So which is it?

Hong Kong is a part of China and its people are Chinese and I suggest you get used to that as that is the way it will stay. 

Sadly you seem to have swallowed the western MSM propaganda lines about when is happening Xinjiang, where the situation is much more complex and different to what they like to make out it is. But if it were a clear cut as they like to make out, I'd ask who are the UK to lecture anyone about treatment of Muslims when they have sown death and destruction across so much of the Muslim world.

China a rogue state😆. Tell me when did China last invade another country? When did China last help implement regime change in a country? When did China last bomb any country back into the stone age? Is it China or the US and its minions who have sent ships to conduct military exercises just outside of the others waters?  

China has shown remarkable restraint over the last few years in the face of plenty of aggression from the US and it's minions. But it won't continue to do so forever and nor should it.

I'm not saying I personally am worried, I was highlighting what other security officials have said. I'm not privvy to national security matters, neither are you, which makes discussing it outside of what the "western MSM" details useless.

People of Hong Kong seem to see themselves as separate from China. They don't want to be ruled in the way China is proposing - hence the million people attending a protest about it. You should get used to fighting back against all oppressive regimes, not just the ones you dislike.

China have been embarking on regional expansion since the early 2000s. We've been through this together before, but what strikes me as very hypocritical of you is that when posters on here expressed their concerns about Russian military exercises you dismissed it with no second thought (even cut it from your quoted posts IIRC!!) but now it suits your version of events we are to discuss said military exercises. Which is it? 

China has more or less implemented a regime change in Hong Kong, as it has entirely trampled on agreements made only decades ago, but you are of the belief we should accept this. 

Quite how reports of womens hair being sold, people being forcibly euthanised, detention camps (re-education centres) or the like are to be dismissed as much more complex is beyond me. In the same way China goes after other religions - see reports of organ harvesting - they are going after this minority because they may believe in something superior to the Chinese state, and that is forbidden in that authoritarian regime.

You are clearly very pro-China and any argument to the contrary is easy dismissed by your "western MSM propaganda" line. Having read the Global Times during my visits to China, and having read newspapers like The Guardian here, I'd suggest there is a clear winner which one is more geared towards state propaganda than the other. When you visit and speak to the Chinese people most of the young people acknowledge their state is intrusive - it only seems to be the Communist-left in Western countries that utterly deny any wrongdoing by them at all turns. Weird. 

 

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Just now, Norbert Rassragr said:

On Hong Kong, China have been eroding the agreement with Britain over the handover for years. Now they have completely destroyed it by trampling over concepts like rule of law, independent judicial system and so on that were part of the agreement. It was supposed to be a city with more freedom of expression, with the kind of liberties we have here, but compromise over the legislature. 

Hong Kong belongs to China, its people are Chinese and its affairs are nothing to do with anyone but China. The days where the British colonizers are able to dictate what happens in Hong Kong are thankfully long gone.

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2 hours ago, 47er said:

Pretty clear that US persuasion was pivotal----summarised "if you want a trade deal drop China"

Hardly taking back control is it? EU is powerful enough to stand up to Trump----UK is not.

I don't think anyone's naive enough to think US didn't have some part to play in this, they warned the UK back in 2019 not to go down this route. 

But China themselves are actively trying to derail the search for Covid19 vaccines, stealing and hacking laboratories around the globe, they're a nasty piece of work and we'd be better served keeping well away.

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5 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Hong Kong belongs to China, its people are Chinese and its affairs are nothing to do with anyone but China. The days where the British colonizers are able to dictate what happens in Hong Kong are thankfully long gone.

To be fair, their citizens seem well happy about that....

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Just now, K-Hod said:

To be fair, their citizens seem well happy about that....

Happy about what?

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It's just patently not true 47er. 

It patently is true Dreams, it just doesn't suit your narrative. No trade deal unless we got rid of Huawai from UK Why? America First----the Yanks intend to fill the gap.

The one thing Trump has been consistent about from the start.

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Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Happy about what?

Changes to their laws meaning more Chinese rule and less autonomy. 

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