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2 hours ago, Gav said:

I saw on the news earlier that one of the major sticking points, fishing quotas aside, is the EU are insisting we follow EU rules on what money we are allowed to give to UK businesses. The EU quite rightly are trying to look after its members, they want a level playing field.

Its no surprise surely that UK government are not agreeing to that, we've left, that was the point of leaving, we make our own rules and laws...

 

Very simple Gav.

Those rules are there to avoid Governments ending up with no money- so there is no free for all of Governments competing with each other offering subsidies and tax sweeteners.

If the UK wants preferential terms for accessing the EU market, the Brits have to play by the rules.

If not, up go the barriers which the EU has ready and the UK is not remotely prepared for.

Talking to friends in Brussels, Johnson has dropped a bollock here.

He has said there will be no deal aka his Somalia Deal or was it Kyrgyzistan deal, sorry Australia deal- they are all the same, they don't exist.

So the EU are saying "make us an offer we cannot refuse if you want a deal."

We are where we were on the Withdrawal Agreement last year. The EU were clear it was May Deal or nothing but if the UK offered a deal they couldn't turn down..

So here we are with the UK spending the thick end of £2 billion in subsidies for Northern Ireland which has become part of the Irish economic zone. I think the EU fancy something like that again.

 

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If you needed evidence the EU 27 don't give a damn..

"It just so happens that making the British prime minister happy isn't the vocation of sovereign leaders of the 27 member states that chose to remain in the EU." - @EmmanuelMacron, French President
 

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Coming to your local shop..

 
 
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14% American retail pork & chicken sampled was contaminated with Salmonella. 60% of American retail pork, 80% of chicken and 70% of American retail beef samples contaminated with E. coli. #faecalcontamination

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By its very definition and raison d'etre, Brexit destroys the UK economy.

Trade agreements more or less ignore services because, more so than for physical goods, non-tariff barriers have to be removed. This automatically means loss of national regulatory control or, in Brexiter terms, sovereignty. For example mutual recognition of professional qualifications in law and accountancy. Despite saying we are asking for no more than what Canada has, the UK has been demanding this mutual recognition from the EU.

This seems to have been unsuccessful in wanting to have a benefit of single market membership without being a member.

A House of Lords sub-committee reported this week that there will be huge damage to the UK’s £225 billion professional services industry (200 times bigger than fishing). As with sectors like pharmaceuticals, auto, aerospace, chemicals and also some that get less attention (e.g. music, computer gaming, fintech, education, civil aviation) the UK is destroying its biggest economic success stories – areas where, to use the government’s favourite phrase, Britain is ‘world-beating’ – in the name of the Brexit theology of sovereignty.

I am just grateful that my highest qualification is French or otherwise it would be as useless as my British driving license will be on 1 January 2021.

Edited by philipl

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Britain's tragedy is that there are people who believed this garbage.

image.png.62d4b65c9a15bf76b2f4fa226396d851.png 

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Tony Connelly has been excellent reporting on Brexit throughout.

Tony Connelly Profile picture

Tony Connelly

Quick take from Brussels on @BorisJohnson’s No Deal threat: 
 
Officials are relatively relaxed. Note @vonderleyen tweet saying that negotiations will resume on Monday, ie business as usual... 
Ongoing bemusement over the line that the EU has refused to grant the UK a “Canada-style FTA”. Canada was never the model, say officials, as that would have meant a line by line negotiation on tariffs 
 
That would have required an extension to the transition, which Johnson refused 
 
Also, officials point out that what the UK has sought goes beyond the Canada deal (professional qualifications, Mode 4 free movement for work reasons, procurement opportunities) - my point above.
Finally, officials note that Johnson did not zero in on (or attack) the EU’s position on fisheries, level playing field and governance 
 
And a follow up take from a UK source:
Source says the trade talks were effectively ended by the EU yesterday when they said they did not want to change their negotiating position. 
Source says the EU can either fundamentally change its position, or UK leaves on Australian terms. 
Source adds that EU officials should only come to London if they are prepared to discuss all issues, on the basis of legal texts, in an accelerated way, without the UK being required to make all the moves.
Or we can talk about flights, lorries etc
If not there is no point coming. 

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I just wonder, when no deal is the definitive outcome, will parliament meekly accept it? 

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1 hour ago, den said:

I just wonder, when no deal is the definitive outcome, will parliament meekly accept it? 

Voters were told an agreement would be easy and we would retain free trade with the EU. On the basis that voters have been told the great whopping lie of the century (so far), the Tory party should replace him with someone who genuinely wants a deal and can be trusted to deliver it.

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5 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Boris bluster aside (a pound shop Mussolini as my dad called him) this is the Brexit reality. A deal closer than ever:-

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/brussels-confident-post-brexit-trade-deal-is-increasingly-likely-1.4383290

I find it very difficult to believe that Johnson will be so scared of his Brexit extremists he will impose the agonies of No Deal on top of all the pain and uncertainties of Covid.

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On 16/10/2020 at 17:25, philipl said:

Very simple Gav.

Those rules are there to avoid Governments ending up with no money- so there is no free for all of Governments competing with each other offering subsidies and tax sweeteners.

If the UK wants preferential terms for accessing the EU market, the Brits have to play by the rules.

 

You miss the point Philipl.

One of reasonS why people voted out, is so we don’t have to play by EU rules, to do so would be a betrayal of that vote.

I agree with the EU stance, the reasoning, but you can’t expect a Brexit government to sign up to EU rules. 

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10 minutes ago, Gav said:

but you can’t expect a Brexit government to sign up to EU rules. 

What does that mean Gav? Did you expect some people would?

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41 minutes ago, den said:

What does that mean Gav? Did you expect some people would?

It means as part of any leave deal, the government won’t want to sign up to EU rules on grants for public UK companies. 

Why on earth would you sign up to more EU rules?

 

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21 minutes ago, Gav said:

It means as part of any leave deal, the government won’t want to sign up to EU rules on grants for public UK companies. 

Why on earth would you sign up to more EU rules?

 

I don’t follow you TBH. The government want all the good bits of the EU (as they see them) but don’t want any of the bad bits (as they see them). Strangely they managed to persuade around 17.4m people that they would easily achieve that. Well it’s not strange really. They bad mouthed the EU at every opportunity over the last 40 years, aided by the Tory press, then roused the nasty side of the British people during the run up to the referendum. 

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49 minutes ago, den said:

I don’t follow you TBH. The government want all the good bits of the EU (as they see them) but don’t want any of the bad bits (as they see them). Strangely they managed to persuade around 17.4m people that they would easily achieve that. Well it’s not strange really. They bad mouthed the EU at every opportunity over the last 40 years, aided by the Tory press, then roused the nasty side of the British people during the run up to the referendum. 

That’s not the point den, but I agree with you.

To expect this government to sign up to EU rules is a bit of a stretch, even if they do cherry pick the good from the perceived bad. 

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8 hours ago, Gav said:

You miss the point Philipl.

One of reasonS why people voted out, is so we don’t have to play by EU rules, to do so would be a betrayal of that vote.

I agree with the EU stance, the reasoning, but you can’t expect a Brexit government to sign up to EU rules. 

So don't expect a trade agreement with the EU then.

You re-enforce my point.

Brexit is simply the destruction of the British economy.

The home market for British businesses shrinks from the biggest in the world- over 500 million to 67 million over night on 31 December.

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11 hours ago, philipl said:

So don't expect a trade agreement with the EU then.

 

The current hiatus is politically driven by Johnson to make it appear he's being tough on Brussels so he can claim any climbdown or concessions as a "victory" .

There will be a deal because the EU and the UK both know a no-deal is economically damaging. Both sides want one.

The difference is, the deal from a UK perspective can never be as good as membership of the single market.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

The current hiatus is politically driven by Johnson to make it appear he's being tough on Brussels so he can claim any climbdown or concessions as a "victory" .

There will be a deal because the EU and the UK both know a no-deal is economically damaging. Both sides want one.

The difference is, the deal from a UK perspective can never be as good as membership of the single market.

 

 

I really don't know jim.

The British side has massively miscalculated this one.

The only way a deal gets done is if they say yes to what the EU has tabled. Literally out of time for anything else bar cosmetic tweaking. There are 27 democracies plus the EU Parliament at the EU end needed to get this passed.

And as I keep on posting, yes no deal would be damaging for the EU 27. But they know they will claw back their losses from the UK. 

The small countries like Malta and Luxembourg see a huge advantage in a No Deal over a Deal. France for sure has a horribly aggressive plan to hit the UK if it goes No Deal. What is in it for them to be wiping up Johnson's messy business for him? 

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27 minutes ago, philipl said:

I really don't know jim.

The British side has massively miscalculated this one.

The only way a deal gets done is if they say yes to what the EU has tabled.

I think a deal will be done at the 11th hour but you might well be right.

Gove and Johnson have got their excuses ready, courtesy of the Sun and which will be echoed by other Brexit supporting rags

I quote the Sun's editorial yesterday: - 'WE salute Boris Johnson for heading, reluctantly, for the No Deal exit door. But in reality Brussels left him little choice'

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6 hours ago, philipl said:

I really don't know jim.

The British side has massively miscalculated this one.

The only way a deal gets done is if they say yes to what the EU has tabled. Literally out of time for anything else bar cosmetic tweaking. There are 27 democracies plus the EU Parliament at the EU end needed to get this passed.

And as I keep on posting, yes no deal would be damaging for the EU 27. But they know they will claw back their losses from the UK. 

The small countries like Malta and Luxembourg see a huge advantage in a No Deal over a Deal. France for sure has a horribly aggressive plan to hit the UK if it goes No Deal. What is in it for them to be wiping up Johnson's messy business for him? 

And the French fishermen will block Calais harbour if they are kept out of British waters. Imagine what that will do.

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3 hours ago, 47er said:

And the French fishermen will block Calais harbour if they are kept out of British waters. Imagine what that will do.

Keep all the asylum seekers in France?

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Afghanistan, Mongolia & Australia have better trading arrangements in place with the EU than we would have in the event of no deal. This stuff doesn’t stop being true just because people like Gove refuse to understand and/or admit it.
 
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Faisal Islam
 
“The EU effectively ended trade talks last week” - Michael Gove tells Marr “door is ajar if EU changes it’s position - but we are ready to leave on Australian terms”... Marr: “but could be called Mongolian or Afghan terms”
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Meanwhile in Australia, their Government is circulating this:
 
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Edited by philipl

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