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Mike E

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For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

Who honestly didn’t see something like this coming?

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15 hours ago, Mike E said:

After the horrific terror attack on a Mosque in Christchurch, it turns out I know some truly disgusting people on Facebook, so I posted this in defence of Muslims:

(Tl;dr: Stop blaming Muslims for everything.)

Bit disgusted by some people I know insinuating that the terrorist attack in Christchurch is justified because ‘the Muslims had it coming’.

Muslims kill Muslims in Syria & Iraq
Jews kill Muslims in Palestine
Hindus kill Muslims in Kashmir
Buddhists kill Muslims in Burma and China
Christians kill Muslims in Uganda, Central African Republic, Quebec, Kansas, and now Christchurch.

Muslims are just as much the victims of terrorism as anyone else in the world. Terrorism is not ‘Islamic’. It has no religion.

So often I see Christian friends of mine quoting obscure Qu’ran passages about infidels, in the belief that all Muslims completely adhere to every part of it.

Yet these same Christians would think I’m insane for believing they all wear only one kind of cloth at a time, all hate gay people, all reject divorcees, or are willing to rape heretics just because Moses justified it.

If you are a Christian who doesn’t stick to every little detail of the Bible, why do you believe that Muslims do the same with their book? They don’t!

The Golden Rule in Matthew 7:12 is ‘Do unto others as you would have them do unto you’. I’ve had to quote it often enough in schools. Would you expect Muslims to judge you by the actions of the Crusades, the KKK, the Lord’s Resistance Army, and a few lone nutters?

No. So don’t judge all Muslims for the actions of ISIS, al-qaeda, and a few lone nutters. Islam has its own ‘golden rule’ in the Quran, 5:32:

“Whoever kills a person, it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.”

So you don't distinguish genocide to other killings? If 100s of black Christian Nigerians are slain, it's equal? Huh?

Genocide, in Syria, in Nigeria.  Your just pinning hate on Christians, the left allies itself with certain parties.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/nigeria.html

There, in case, you start crying that a website is not mainstream to get cheap attack points, since your debate is so weak, you make personal attacks, you equate the killings of thousands of blacks to what happened in New Zealand.

Who in the hell are you to talk about Christians? Haven't you routinely trashed them alredy.

Honourable mention to Mike E. for dumping on Hindus too, 3 weeks ago or so, 40 soldiers of their's killed by a suicide bomb. Oh, no mention of this. Despicable, pitiful.

If genocide is going on against Muslims anywhere, it's in Myanmar and maybe back to Bangladesh itself, at least, they are putting the Rohingya in camps.

If genocide is going on against Muslims anywhere, it's tribal and some types of Sunnis did it to the Shias in Iraq and Syrai.

If genocide is going on against Muslims anywhere, try the internment camps in China of the Uighurs, And such internment does qualify as genocide under the definition at the Geneva convention... just in case, someone's let's their lack of knowledge try to win arguments again.

But we have to read some hateful spiel against Christians. I don't see them mentioned in any of these 3 items above.

And the word you need to say is genocide, as this has been brought up to the United Nations.  Not mere killing which you said, hundreds of Nigerian Christians have been murdered by Boko Haram, I'll bet you give not a peep about that or bombings of churches in Egypt.

What a sickbigoted  hate rant against Christians.  If black Christians in Africa are killed by the dozens, no big deal to Mike E. Sickening.  These people are facing genocide and not one word about what goes on in China and not much said about the allegations that the Buddhist population in Myanmar has committed genocide on the Rohinga.

What can you expect from such lightweights who stand up for a baby being ripped from it's mother's womb and insult others. Big man.

https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/8380/double-the-number-of-christians-killed-worldwide-last-year

This sources it out pretty good.  No moral equivalency.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Audax

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https://www.middleeasteye.net/gallery/pictures-children-who-have-defined-syrias-eight-year-war

000_16a1ey.jpg

June 2018 - Maya Merhi became the face of wounded Syrian children when she was photographed walking through a camp in northern Idlib province with tin cans and plastic tubing made by her father acting as her legs. A doctor in Turkey later gave her prosthetics, free of charge (AFP)

Assad/Putin  defenders blame all on the West need not respond.  Take responsibility for your actions, not pin it on others. Go live in North Korea.

Doesn't take long to find atrocities committed against Christians but blame them and clearly, in the past few weeks, burned alive or shot. That sure didn't make the news.

https://guardian.ng/news/suspected-fulani-herdsmen-others-kill-32-in-kaduna-sokoto/

No point in arguing with someone who has never heard of ISIS, Boko Haram, who jumps to blame Christians when the Chinese and Burmese have done worse as of what is going on right now.

Let alone, why is it

Hindus versus

Christians versus..

Buddhists versus..

Muslims versus???

I mean why one belief system against all the others?

In India, there is some Hindus vs. Christians, but it's mild stuff in comparison, I think the Hindus recently removed some plaque of the Christians, really mild stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Audax

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Audax, Mike literally never said any of those things. 

In your desperate need to defend Christians you went off on a strange tangent. While you were there, you lost your damn mind! I hope you find it again.

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16 hours ago, Amo said:

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

Who honestly didn’t see something like this coming?

It's all part and parcel of living in a big city.

It's interesting to note that there are almost as many Muslims in Blackburn, England as there currently are in the whole of New Zealand.

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That's an interesting comment. According to the 2013 NZ census the population is 4.2m with 46000 identifying as Muslim. Over 10%

The UK population is 66m with 3.4m identifying as Muslim . 5%

So while I understand your point it doesn't really reflect the make up of the UK population.

EDIT apologies the NZ % should be 1% of population is Muslim.

Edited by Paul

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Sorry, Audax, but in your haste to misrepresent what I said, you missed my point entirely.

I’ll reduce it down to one sentence for you (one I used in that post):

’Muslims are as much the victims of terrorism as anyone else.’

Please note that I was responding to people all over Facebook who were saying ‘the Muslims had it coming’. Ie: people who believe liberal, moderate, and conservative Muslims all view things the same way as extremists.

I’d describe such people as ‘@#/?’ but they obviously lack the depth or warmth.

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Just now, Mike E said:

Sorry, Audax, but in your haste to misrepresent what I said, you missed my point entirely.

I’ll reduce it down to one sentence for you (one I used in that post):

’Muslims are as much the victims of terrorism as anyone else.’

Please note that I was responding to people all over Facebook who were saying ‘the Muslims had it coming’. Ie: people who believe liberal, moderate, and conservative Muslims all view things the same way as extremists.

I’d describe such people as ‘@#/?’ but they obviously lack the depth or warmth.

Very strange that we have these 3 tiers of violence.

What is a moderate Muslim? One that wants someone else to do the killings?

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Just now, Husky said:

Very strange that we have these 3 tiers of violence.

What is a moderate Muslim? One that wants someone else to do the killings?

The same thing as a moderate Christian...

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55 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

That would be 1% not 10%

Correct. Thank you.

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23 hours ago, Amo said:

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

Who honestly didn’t see something like this coming?

It's been on the cards for sure. I guess someone will seek revenge for this from the Islamic extremist side, so expect another load of innocent lives needlessly taken in the name of religion.

I genuinely can't believe we are discussing religious murders in this day and age.

Then again, we are still discussing racism, so I shouldn't be surprised.

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8 hours ago, Husky said:

Which is?

In fairness, that could also be a number of things. But I’d view a moderate religious person as someone who attends services, reads their holy book, generally lives their lives by it without the bits that contravene modern values.

A liberal one, I’d view as someone who identifies as religious without really going to worship or reading their holy book, but generally follows the overarching message.

A conservative, I’d assume would be more rigid in their own behaviour, the ‘model’ religious person who attends worship, reads their book and probably consults it regularly. They probably publicly preach the values too.

An extremist I’d view as anyone that regularly and actively tries to convert others to their chosen religion (or worse), even going so far as to incite hatred and violence, thus losing the whole point of modern religion.

Using myself as an example, I was brought up Catholic, probably conservative. Teens, I went through moderate, then liberal, then Deist, now atheist.

Edited by Mike E

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The shooter is called atheist, man, what hate was being thrown at Christians over this. Is the guy a Christian?   No.

The Chinese and Buddhist Myanmar are accused of someone pretty horrible things against Muslims in the modern day. Were they mentioned? No.

Be aware of those scapegoating some people. We've seen that done before.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/trump-administration-compares-chinese-prisons-muslim-minorities-1930s-200100409.html

 

 

 

 

 

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On 15/03/2019 at 21:41, Amo said:

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

Who honestly didn’t see something like this coming?

Why, has there been another terrorist attack on NZ that wasn't reported? 

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On 16/03/2019 at 06:41, Amo said:

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 

Who honestly didn’t see something like this coming?

This is not an opposite reaction - its the exact same thing as all terrorist acts. They murder innocent people who are simply exercising their freedoms and minding their own business. This time the victims were Muslims, but also Dads and Mums and sons and daughters and New Zealanders and a thousand other different labels. They were singled out by one hateful individual for one aspect of their personality. 

There is only one battle going on - terrorism vs. freedom

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19 hours ago, Husky said:

Which is?

One whom practices their religion, but respects the rule of law, and the right of individuals to do anything they please within the law. Which is the vast majority of adherents to any religion.

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3 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

One whom practices their religion, but respects the rule of law, and the right of individuals to do anything they please within the law. Which is the vast majority of adherents to any religion.

And exactly which law is that?

The law of the particular religion or the law of the land in which they live?

 

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4 hours ago, ultrablue said:

This is not an opposite reaction - its the exact same thing as all terrorist acts.

EQUAL and opposite. Equal act but opposite roles.

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3 hours ago, Husky said:

And exactly which law is that?

The law of the particular religion or the law of the land in which they live?

 

The civil and criminal law and institutions of the country they live within.

I completely agree any individual that actively violates those laws or institutions is to be censured and punished through due process.

What I think is important is : 

1) it's wrong to characterise all Muslims, or indeed even a significant minority of Muslims, as being aligned to violating the above. There's no evidence for it. 

2) Our system, and any just system, is built upon the principles of individual culpability, guilt through proof of individual action, and due process of law. Modern civilization rests upon the respect of that. As soon as guilt by identity or supposition is established then the whole justice and law system collapses, as it has multiple times in history. Even if you do have identifiable groups who violate the law or institutions it is vital they are managed through due process and tried for their individual actions, not through collective responsibility.

The narrative on Muslims today is a near exact repeat of previous cycles of demonisation. From Jews, to Communists, to Catholics, to Irish, to Sikhs, blacks etc.  Its the same old story of fear, hate and discrimination, which has been managed through returning to the same basic ethical and legalistic point - we are all individuals and should be treated as such.

There's a great irony in the alt and far right group's platform. They  purport to defend "western civilization". Yet the justice system, a great part of our civilization, has evolved over thousands of years to directly manage and mitigate the toxicity of identity politics.

Edited by joey_big_nose
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37 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

The narrative on Muslims today is a near exact repeat of previous cycles of demonisation. From Jews, to Communists, to Catholics, to Irish, to Sikhs, blacks etc.  Its the same old story of fear, hate and discrimination, which has been managed through returning to the same basic ethical and legalistic point - we are all individuals and should be treated as such.

If we’re all individuals, why are you using collective nouns? 

Btw, you forgot to include single white men, who are constantly demonised as racist, chauvinist, privileged oppressors. :) 

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17 hours ago, Mike E said:

In fairness, that could also be a number of things. But I’d view a moderate religious person as someone who attends services, reads their holy book, generally lives their lives by it without the bits that contravene modern values.

A liberal one, I’d view as someone who identifies as religious without really going to worship or reading their holy book, but generally follows the overarching message.

A conservative, I’d assume would be more rigid in their own behaviour, the ‘model’ religious person who attends worship, reads their book and probably consults it regularly. They probably publicly preach the values too.

An extremist I’d view as anyone that regularly and actively tries to convert others to their chosen religion (or worse), even going so far as to incite hatred and violence, thus losing the whole point of modern religion.

Using myself as an example, I was brought up Catholic, probably conservative. Teens, I went through moderate, then liberal, then Deist, now atheist.

Interesting. Okay, so I have some further queries . . . .

Given there are supposedly Liberal, Conservative and Radical Muslims. In which category would you put the following . . .

i) Gay marriage should be illegal.

ii) Women should obey the man at all times.

iii) Death penalty for homosexuals.

iv) Prison sentences for homosexuals.

v) Sympathy for suicide bombings (such as Manchester).

vi) There should be Sharia Law in the UK.

vii) Lessons that contain any element of 'LGBT rights (or similar)' should be banned in schools.

viii) Jewish people have too much 'power'.

 

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