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Matchday Programme

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21 hours ago, meadows said:

Agree. The very thought of a thousand people walking along or sitting staring at a "programme app" dissecting tactics (Who the hell needs that?) is a slightly disturbing  dystopian vision 

Part of what I enjoy is the human contact of walking into the shop every home game getting my programme from Barbara & Jim in the office and saying hi. Buying my Rovers Return ticket from the same friendly bloke. Waiting in reception with Parson or whoever for a teamsheet and saying hello to the girls behind the counter.

I can probably get every single last item of Info and statistic in the Sky Sports Yearbook from my phone but I don't want to, I want the physical thing to cherish, save and collect. I want it to pick up at the side of my PC if I'm writing a piece and need a stat even though I can get the same info flicking between screens 

You can get the time off your phone but it hasn't stopped people buying watches and clicks or stopped them looking at them 

People like stuff, things, mementoes, that's why they get prints of their selfies & that's why they'll far easier get them out in an an album or box in 25 years time rather than fart about on iCloud or old SIM cards to look at them

 

  

1. To you. Not to the younger generation of football fans it's not. Children brought up in the digital age yearn for interaction like this. All of my nephews are the same - they follow every player on twitter; they sit for hours on FIFA and the older few sit for hours on football manager. Take a look at the rise in debate shows surrounding football, whether that's Carra and Neville on Monday nights or the later shows on Sky Sports. It's an arrogant, rather pretentious, view that you'd consider something like this "disturbing". I'm sure half of those youngsters wouldn't consider trawling through pages of who sponsors what match ball, or chronologically filing old programs entertaining. They have all of that at their finger tips and can access it in a much more efficient way than you could, despite your overwhelming ability to make yourself sound like the fount of all knowledge

2. Again, people like you. My nephew has been to countless gigs and whenever I see him he has albums upon albums all digitally stored - ordered by date and event name that he can easily access with a simply ctrl + F and a keyword. What would have probably took 10 minutes to find the photo album, a few minutes finding which album had which photos, now takes him seconds to open the cloud, find the album and pass over to me to scroll through in high definition.

You don't even realise how awfully pretentious you sound. Ridiculing the way in which younger generations prefer to interact with their clubs/heroes. We are all happy that you get such joyful nostalgia when you smell the 1967 programme from a Tuesday night game vs Accy. However that shouldn't be a reason to not attempt to try and digitalise something in order to appeal to the younger generation; especially when that younger generation is being driven away from clubs like us to the bigger clubs which, coincidentally, engage with fans on social media much more than we do.

You can still get a photo of your hero signed if you wish - so why would a digital program with interactive features be such a 'disturbing' thing for you? Because it appeals to somebody else and not yourself? How disturbing that others may think or act in a different way to our Blue Eyed Boy.

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None of the above alters the fact that the content is appalling no matter how it is delivered.  I think you'll find that any number of people agree with what Meadows is saying.  Ultimately, there is no reason why the club can't deliver both methods - some clubs do although no club has done away with the 'traditional' programme and obviously there is a reason for that - they are still popular.  The gripe with the Rovers programme is the poor content and quality.

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

1. To you. Not to the younger generation of football fans it's not. Children brought up in the digital age yearn for interaction like this. All of my nephews are the same - they follow every player on twitter; they sit for hours on FIFA and the older few sit for hours on football manager. Take a look at the rise in debate shows surrounding football, whether that's Carra and Neville on Monday nights or the later shows on Sky Sports. It's an arrogant, rather pretentious, view that you'd consider something like this "disturbing". I'm sure half of those youngsters wouldn't consider trawling through pages of who sponsors what match ball, or chronologically filing old programs entertaining. They have all of that at their finger tips and can access it in a much more efficient way than you could, despite your overwhelming ability to make yourself sound like the fount of all knowledge

2. Again, people like you. My nephew has been to countless gigs and whenever I see him he has albums upon albums all digitally stored - ordered by date and event name that he can easily access with a simply ctrl + F and a keyword. What would have probably took 10 minutes to find the photo album, a few minutes finding which album had which photos, now takes him seconds to open the cloud, find the album and pass over to me to scroll through in high definition.

You don't even realise how awfully pretentious you sound. Ridiculing the way in which younger generations prefer to interact with their clubs/heroes. We are all happy that you get such joyful nostalgia when you smell the 1967 programme from a Tuesday night game vs Accy. However that shouldn't be a reason to not attempt to try and digitalise something in order to appeal to the younger generation; especially when that younger generation is being driven away from clubs like us to the bigger clubs which, coincidentally, engage with fans on social media much more than we do.

You can still get a photo of your hero signed if you wish - so why would a digital program with interactive features be such a 'disturbing' thing for you? Because it appeals to somebody else and not yourself? How disturbing that others may think or act in a different way to our Blue Eyed Boy.

I'm not oblivious to the likes and dislikes of young football fans Dreams I have 2 myself age 13 and 23 living at home. 

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2 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

None of the above alters the fact that the content is appalling no matter how it is delivered.  I think you'll find that any number of people agree with what Meadows is saying.  Ultimately, there is no reason why the club can't deliver both methods - some clubs do although no club has done away with the 'traditional' programme and obviously there is a reason for that - they are still popular.  The gripe with the Rovers programme is the poor content and quality.

I'm not in disagreement with you about that. The content is shocking and has been for some time. Ultimately that needs to change - both in paperback traditional match day programs and the online content. I took umbrage with how instantly dismissed it was by meadows because he disagreed with it - it's a recurring theme in his content that anything he disagrees with is talked down on with disdain, whether it be disturbing, performed by the feeble-minded, joyless wasp suckers or other perverse adjective he throws in to his pretentious little rants.

It further alienates younger supporters if we refuse to acknowledge there needs to be an interactive, social-media friendly way in which we deliver match day programmes simply because he likes the smell of a piece of paper from the 60s. I just wanted to highlight how silly his points were - the fact he prefers, and finds easier, the old ways doesn't mean the younger generation will.

Just now, meadows said:

I'm not oblivious to the likes and dislikes of young football fans Dreams I have 2 myself age 13 and 23 living at home. 

Then surely you have seen yourself the benefits of the digital age - that children brought up in this digital age can utilise electronic devices far easier than those born before it ever will. An online match day program would be perfect for people of those age, and I can almost guarantee they wouldn't find people reading programs on their phones 'disturbing' in the slightest.

 

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39 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

None of the above alters the fact that the content is appalling no matter how it is delivered.  I think you'll find that any number of people agree with what Meadows is saying.  Ultimately, there is no reason why the club can't deliver both methods - some clubs do although no club has done away with the 'traditional' programme and obviously there is a reason for that - they are still popular.  The gripe with the Rovers programme is the poor content and quality.

Thanks Parson nice to hear from someone who doesn't consider an opinion which doesn't chime 110% with their own a reason to launch a barely disguised vitriolic spiel and can still conduct themself with civility and manners. 

Im quite sure I could post that it was mid-September on here and it would prompt one or two to insist it was early March in order to be disagreeable. 

Ironic that the poster who practically wrote the manual on "if you disagree with me you're wrong because I'm just right" should accuse me of similar. I suppose I should be highly flattered that some whimsical musings on a not entirely crucial sideline topic should provoke such an impassioned diatribe laced with venom! 

Look forward to seeing you in the foyer waiting for an avowedly  non-digital team sheet.  

Edited by meadows

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Technology doesn't care about what used to be better, it usually advances for the better to make things easier for us. Whether people prefer the physical version or not matters little, it will be obsolete before long. 

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2 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Technology doesn't care about what used to be better, it usually advances for the better to make things easier for us. Whether people prefer the physical version or not matters little, it will be obsolete before long. 

Interesting point K-Hod.  The doc gave me a prescription today but instead of the paper version he sent it electronically straight to my chemist.  I said to him that it seemed like a very efficient service.  "Don't bet on it" was the reply.   Sure enough, I went to the chemist and when I asked for the prescription I was told to come back tomorrow - the computer was down.  So much for technology!

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On 18/09/2017 at 10:58, HowieFive0 said:

I wouldnt think they make anything on the actual sale of the programmes but will make money on the adverts that are placed in it.

In the Championship we only produced 3000 programmes per match. Will be even less now.

Spoke to a printer today who reckons cost of producing 3000 programmes wouldn't be much more than a grand. 

If they sell 2000 - and I'm not sure they do - that would represent decent profit especially with advertising revenue chucked in

I think there's a very good case for a cheaper, fewer paged product. You don't have to sacrifice quality just because there aren't as many pages to fill. 

The quality is spread very thinly across the current 52 pages...itself reduced from a year or two ago. 

Great point by JH about programmes being one thing visiting fans take away from our place. 

 

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1 minute ago, K-Hod said:

Yeah, but how many fans do Man United have??

If they come here like they did last season 7,000 or so lots of whom want a programme!

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Just now, K-Hod said:

Yeah, but how many fans do Man United have??

Many of the programmes that United produce are sold straight to dealers all around the country who then sell to avid programme collectors.  There is still a huge demand for the 'traditional' programme and, of course, vintage programmes - pre-1950 - can fetch hundreds of pounds and in some cases thousands.  Rovers programmes from  the forties often sell for a few hundred quid each.  Somehow can't see anyone paying that for an app.

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Just now, Parsonblue said:

Interesting point K-Hod.  The doc gave me a prescription today but instead of the paper version he sent it electronically straight to my chemist.  I said to him that it seemed like a very efficient service.  "Don't bet on it" was the reply.   Sure enough, I went to the chemist and when I asked for the prescription I was told to come back tomorrow - the computer was down.  So much for technology!

If any of you can recommend me a brand of plasters which actually stick since manufacturing methods have gotten so great I'd be pleased to hear about it!!

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1 hour ago, meadows said:

If any of you can recommend me a brand of plasters which actually stick since manufacturing methods have gotten so great I'd be pleased to hear about it!!

It doesn't matter, people keep buying them and they're cheaper to produce now. 

With regards to Parsons point about the content being the same whether it's print or digital, this is entirely the point! The content wouldn't be at all the same because it would reduce the need for journalistic input, just fill it with video, interviews and interactive content. 'Pick your starting 11' with live graphics showing the team which the majority of fans are picking, message from the manager, behind the scenes at brockhall - none of this brilliantly interactive content is possible with words and still images, yet all really basic stuff for an app based programme.

I think myself, Dreams and K-Hod will have to respectfully disagree with yourself and Parson on this one - but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

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22 minutes ago, J*B said:

It doesn't matter, people keep buying them and they're cheaper to produce now. 

With regards to Parsons point about the content being the same whether it's print or digital, this is entirely the point! The content wouldn't be at all the same because it would reduce the need for journalistic input, just fill it with video, interviews and interactive content. 'Pick your starting 11' with live graphics showing the team which the majority of fans are picking, message from the manager, behind the scenes at brockhall - none of this brilliantly interactive content is possible with words and still images, yet all really basic stuff for an app based programme.

I think myself, Dreams and K-Hod will have to respectfully disagree with yourself and Parson on this one - but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

Burnley produce brilliant video magazine content. It really is impressive. 

They also continue to produce an award-winning programme. 

The common thread is that they are staffed by expert professionals in both departments capable of producing material without descending into abject self-parody - "pick your best starting XI" sounds dangerously near if you don't mind me saying so

 

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54 minutes ago, J*B said:

It doesn't matter, people keep buying them and they're cheaper to produce now. 

With regards to Parsons point about the content being the same whether it's print or digital, this is entirely the point! The content wouldn't be at all the same because it would reduce the need for journalistic input, just fill it with video, interviews and interactive content. 'Pick your starting 11' with live graphics showing the team which the majority of fans are picking, message from the manager, behind the scenes at brockhall - none of this brilliantly interactive content is possible with words and still images, yet all really basic stuff for an app based programme.

I think myself, Dreams and K-Hod will have to respectfully disagree with yourself and Parson on this one - but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

But they already do that with ifollow J*B.  That is filled with video content at £45 for a season.

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At the end of the day the current product is abysmal. I believe that is because Rovers have chosen to neglect this particular area of the operation and prefer to churn out a programme as cheaply and quickly as possible with scant regard for the quality of the product.

We can debate all day whether the club should move towards a digital future. I believe in a mid=way point whereby a quality programme is produced and sold in paper form as it always has been but a scanned version is available to download and save to your computer if you prefer. I could scan all the programmes so far into the scanner at work in 30 minutes and email it out as an attachment to a mailing list if people want it that way. Its not difficult if there's the will to do it.

Every week clubs up and down the country prove that it is perfectly viable to produce a comprehensive, quality matchday programme and charge £3 for it and can make it work. The only reason Rovers don't is because they can't be bothered. 

Anyone spot a pattern emerging here? That's right, we've only one director, he's got enough on his plate to worry about a programme that he probably never reads, and so it falls between the cracks whilst the show rolls on with the minimum done to produce one. Same applies to the matchday 'entertainment' with the same old music played over and over again at a volume so low I struggle to hear what it actually is. It hardly lends itself to building up an atmosphere pre kick off. Some poor soul not able to do the job has probably had the programme job thrown upon him a few weeks before the season began because they suddenly realised nobody else was around to do it. 

Shoddy operation. Normally a commercial or communications director would hold such responsibility and employ/delegate the programme job to someone capable with requirements attached as to content and quality. This being the same club that pleads poverty yet treats a potential income stream with such disdain!

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Agreed.

Many, many other clubs can manage it.  Even my local Swindon Supermarine FC, Level 8 can.  If they don't want to resource it properly get some journalist interns in as a project, or allow the Supporters Trust to manage the content.  

It can't be hard to gather together interesting facts, gossip, behind the scenes etc.

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I personally stoped buying programmes along time ago.... up until that point I alway bought one,going out of my way to try to get hold of a one even if I did not go to the game.

I believe a number of things happened: I decided it was expensive, we had got to a point where it was information saturation i.e it not new news and with tv, news papers,internet, rovers player. You basically already knew what was going to be in it.

before internet you would get exclusive content that would have not been mentioned elsewhere. This is what it needs. But this would involve "holding back" some news.

Going back the programmes where very similar with weekly features. It was a template which then had articles placed in the correct spots ,basically updating last weeks.

they had some good features. If I recall rightly, managers pre game notes/welcome the away team. Couple of pages on the opposition , player diary (I think Kevin Gallagher used to do this) ,getting to know...(different player each week,what's your favourite food, boots, who do you room with on away games etc.

Then the standard fixtures results and squads.

i can only really now see a space for a programme that would literally be a souvenir of the match, as mentioned the actual profit margin is tight any how, and I'm not sure how many we currently sell. I don't see many people with them on match day any more.

Away programmes I have always liked to read what they have to say about us , maybe our programmes still appeal to away followings ?

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The LT isn't much different, it is basically now just re-hashes stories from rovers.co.uk

It doesn't even try and inform when it has the chance. For example there was an article about Leutwiler being called up for Canada, stating that he will 'miss the Blackpool game', will he? Surely any journo worth his salt would add a quick caveat stating that said game is now likely to be called off?

Edited by Mattyblue

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13 hours ago, JHRover said:

At the end of the day the current product is abysmal. I believe that is because Rovers have chosen to neglect this particular area of the operation and prefer to churn out a programme as cheaply and quickly as possible with scant regard for the quality of the product.

We can debate all day whether the club should move towards a digital future. I believe in a mid=way point whereby a quality programme is produced and sold in paper form as it always has been but a scanned version is available to download and save to your computer if you prefer. I could scan all the programmes so far into the scanner at work in 30 minutes and email it out as an attachment to a mailing list if people want it that way. Its not difficult if there's the will to do it.

Every week clubs up and down the country prove that it is perfectly viable to produce a comprehensive, quality matchday programme and charge £3 for it and can make it work. The only reason Rovers don't is because they can't be bothered. 

Anyone spot a pattern emerging here? That's right, we've only one director, he's got enough on his plate to worry about a programme that he probably never reads, and so it falls between the cracks whilst the show rolls on with the minimum done to produce one. Same applies to the matchday 'entertainment' with the same old music played over and over again at a volume so low I struggle to hear what it actually is. It hardly lends itself to building up an atmosphere pre kick off. Some poor soul not able to do the job has probably had the programme job thrown upon him a few weeks before the season began because they suddenly realised nobody else was around to do it. 

Shoddy operation. Normally a commercial or communications director would hold such responsibility and employ/delegate the programme job to someone capable with requirements attached as to content and quality. This being the same club that pleads poverty yet treats a potential income stream with such disdain!

This is the biggest factor in it. There isn't anyone that is actually taking the club by the scruff of its neck and trying to turn a corner, regardless of what certain people say. One or two signings followed by the retention of players, which is more or less the minimum a club should do, isn't making amends. When other clubs our size have come down to this level in the past they've seen radical change in the way in which they operate. Not us. We continue to plod along with the same miserable status-quo buoyed by wins against teams we should be beating anyway. The optimism a win brings flatters to deceive in a sense that issues such as this go unrecognised when on a winning streak.

The club simply doesn't care about its fans and doesn't feel the need to engage with them. That much has been evident over the years and this is a symptom of that. Until that changes then you can never really expect any different. Everything from our local paper coverage, club press releases (the blatant carbon copy "Owners Statement" we are given at the end of every disappointed season), behind the scenes interviews, match day programs, ticket communication and match day entertainment stinks. As a fan base we are over the moon that we have a manager that actually tells the truth - how sad is that? We should expect that.

Rovers is in a rot and will always be until very serious change is made. When that happens is anyone's guess.

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I may have missed the boat on this one, but I'd agree that the reason the programme is so poor is down to a lack of focus/communication from within the club, and probably the lack of anyone there giving a toss, I would imagine it is a nightmare trying to get info out of them in time for print deadlines. I bought one for the Burnley game, and won't bother buying another this season. And as others have said, I was really impressed with the quality and content of the Rochdale programme.

I worked as the graphic designer on the Rovers programme from '98 (1st: pre-season friendly vs PSV) till 2005 (last: Tony Parkes testimonial) as a fan it was a pleasure to work on, I visited Brockhall, the media centre at the ground 'Drumhawk' it was called, for some strange reason, and once spoke to both Graeme Souness and Brad Friedel when they rang to alter their columns. I always put in the effort to make the programme the best I could in both design and content - sometimes researching info myself to put in, but sadly that seems to be missing now.

It is a pity that some of the Radio Rovers staff could not have been retained in some capacity on this perhaps - or the club try to recruit Rovers supporting / locally based media agency to take this on board?

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Noticed that a fella called Ryan Grant is now writing the articles on the official website. Quick look on Twitter says he's our new 'Comms & Media Manager'.

He's come from Man Utd, so let's see if anything improves...

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55 minutes ago, Darren Brown said:

I may have missed the boat on this one, but I'd agree that the reason the programme is so poor is down to a lack of focus/communication from within the club, and probably the lack of anyone there giving a toss, I would imagine it is a nightmare trying to get info out of them in time for print deadlines. I bought one for the Burnley game, and won't bother buying another this season. And as others have said, I was really impressed with the quality and content of the Rochdale programme.

I worked as the graphic designer on the Rovers programme from '98 (1st: pre-season friendly vs PSV) till 2005 (last: Tony Parkes testimonial) as a fan it was a pleasure to work on, I visited Brockhall, the media centre at the ground 'Drumhawk' it was called, for some strange reason, and once spoke to both Graeme Souness and Brad Friedel when they rang to alter their columns. I always put in the effort to make the programme the best I could in both design and content - sometimes researching info myself to put in, but sadly that seems to be missing now.

It is a pity that some of the Radio Rovers staff could not have been retained in some capacity on this perhaps - or the club try to recruit Rovers supporting / locally based media agency to take this on board?

Drumhawk Communications was a local media company sponsoring Rovers at that time.

Edited by MCMC1875

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