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Harry Chapman

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25 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Didnt Smallwood refuse to play for the u23s?

He played several games for the Under-23s last season.  I think there were Lancashire Cup games when players were given the option at times if they felt they needed game time to improve their fitness levels.

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Chapman is LIGHTYEARS behind Armstrong @Stuart, that’s why he doesn’t get played.

 

Take out a few tricks and step overs from L1 and I really haven’t ever seen him be anything other than average at best.

 

Dolan showed him up big style.

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15 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Chapman is LIGHTYEARS behind Armstrong @Stuart, that’s why he doesn’t get played.

Take out a few tricks and step overs from L1 and I really haven’t ever seen him be anything other than average at best.

Dolan showed him up big style.

Very interested to see which direction Dolan goes in.

Armstrong was protected by Mowbray and played game after game after game while out of form. He has grown. Not every player gets that luxury.

Chapman has been turned off but seems to be being given another chance - probably through necessity (see Mulgrew tweet). I think it will end the same way because of the player that Chapman is and the player Mowbray wants him to be.

Let’s see how Mowbray treats Dolan.

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3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Very interested to see which direction Dolan goes in.

Armstrong was protected by Mowbray and played game after game after game while out of form. He has grown. Not every player gets that luxury.

Chapman has been turned off but seems to be being given another chance - probably through necessity (see Mulgrew tweet). I think it will end the same way because of the player that Chapman is and the player Mowbray wants him to be.

Let’s see how Mowbray treats Dolan.

Indeed.

If there’s one bench spot though or we are chasing a goal then I already know who I would be picking.

Chapman was a cheap crowd pleasing gamble, I just don’t see it paying off though and L1 will be the absolute height of his ability and career.

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I personally think he does have the ability. However, his attitude and general approach to himself and his fitness says he’ll be in the lower leagues (if playing football at all) sooner rather than later.

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3 hours ago, Stuart said:

I just see yet another young player disillusioned by Mowbray. He must look over at Armstrong who was given so much faith by the manager during his earlier lean spell and who, let’s be honest, only got into real form after he was allowed the freedom only afforded to Dack - another happy accident (a la Travis). It seems Tony only has room for 1 ‘Arte’ outfield player and 9 ‘Labores’ - chiefly because he cannot sort out our defence.

Mowbray knew the kind of player Chapman was and bought him anyway. Now when he doesn’t (or can’t) conform to the manager’s archetypal up-and-down the pitch player template, the player gets pelters (from manager and fans - and in-house commentators*).

When you keep buying square pegs for round holes you will get players that can’t be changed. That’s on the manager. Better recruitment required.

* those same commentators who decried Chapman yesterday - every combo he had with other players was used to criticise him - didn’t even flinch when Brereton made yet another glaring miss. At least he didn’t fall over his own feet this time. Anyway the point is, some players get a free pass - even if you get in trouble with the law - maybe Mulgrew has a point...

what other young player are disillusioned under Mowbray then Stuart? 

Its time that Chapman either shape up and starting working hardly and better or we get rid. He could be regular if he performs, has the correct attitude instead of his current attitude, and work hard for the team

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17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I personally think he does have the ability. However, his attitude and general approach to himself and his fitness says he’ll be in the lower leagues (if playing football at all) sooner rather than later.

The right manager and coaching makes a huge difference in this regard.

The trouble is Mowbray already has his favourites, Dack and Armstrong, playing where Chapman would thrive so he will need to be converted to something else that he is not capable of. Let’s see how Armstrong fares when he is shunted our wide once Dack is back for instance.

Mowbray should never have bought Chapman when we were already well stocked in his position. My view is that he did so because he told the player he would 12 months earlier and stuck to his word. Promises should not be made by the heart but with the head.

Once you lose a player’s trust it rarely works out that they come back - unless there is a change of manager and a fresh start. Now it has become clear Mowbray will never be sacked players are caught up in a very unusual situation. They may have to dance to music they hate, or see their opportunities limited and their careers curtailed. And the fans who also know Mowbray won’t be sacked also blame them exclusively. Surreal really.

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Mowbray has all manner of faults, but one thing I’ve always been pleased with is that  his sides have always grafted for the shirt and each other. I just don’t see Chapman buying into it.

Is that partly due to TM being overly critical on young players? Probably, but the likes of Nyambe and Travis have shown the desire and professionalism to thrive anyway. 

It’s a short career and the responsibility for your career ultimately comes down to yourself, alas Chapman doesn’t look like he wants it enough and there are plenty that do and will elbow him aside (looks like one has just arrived).

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Every side that grafts also needs a little flair if the want to be successful. Mowbray doesn’t believe in this so we remain a bog average Championship side (with nearly £200m of debt).

Flair players are confidence players. If you take away their confidence you take away their flair rendering them useless.

If you want graft, buy graft, but it’s going to be crap to watch and unlikely to end well. (Except for an unsackable manager).

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Dack is a fair player bit he still works (I see graft as your whole approach to your career, training, rehabilitation etc, not just tracking back etc.)

If his career fails it’s on him, not Tony Mowbray. Though on the flip side, he leaves here and thrives, then of course it is a black mark on Mowbray and his man management.

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8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Every side that grafts also needs a little flair if the want to be successful. Mowbray doesn’t believe in this so we remain a bog average Championship side (with nearly £200m of debt).

Of course - silk and steel. Artists and soldiers. Etc. But it's blatantly clear that Mowbray rates Dolan already, especially after reading his comments about him. I don't think it's a coincidence that Dolan already appears to work hard - both going forward and with defensive duties - and is being justly rewarded with the game time that he deserves at the moment. I think it'd be sensible to play Dolan from the bench in the first part of the season, and if he continues as he has been doing, I don't see why Mowbray would omit him from the starting XI.

Something I remember about Chapman's initial loan with us, Stuart, is that while the lad is clearly gifted, he didn't always play that way. I think against Rochdale in the EFL Trophy (or whatever it's called), he was about the worst player on the pitch. And Ben Gladwin was on it, too. I'm not just basing the following opinion of him on that one match, but it's just one example of several that indicate he's just not motivated. I get the impression that he doesn't think it matters unless it's an "important" game. He has a nice contract, and so he should show that he is willing to play for it - even if he's feeling out of form. We've seen very little of that fight, and I don't understand why Mowbray is to blame for that. Some players just have stinking attitudes. There are enough young players that Mowbray has brought into the first-team fold to nullify the "he's been Mowbrayed" argument.

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2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Didnt Smallwood refuse to play for the u23s?

I've noticed a few on here and twitter suddenly giving him the saint treatment in order to have a pop at Mulgrew.  He was offered the chance and turned it down but i think turned out late in the season for them.  Guy sat on his contract for 12 months rather than go on loan or anything despite allegedly being told at the beginning of the season he wouldn't be used whatever the situation.  Seems your ok to do that when you are a pal of the manager easing his own conscience with other peoples money. And some wonder why we don't take proper steps forwards.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

Of course - silk and steel. Artists and soldiers. Etc. But it's blatantly clear that Mowbray rates Dolan already, especially after reading his comments about him. I don't think it's a coincidence that Dolan already appears to work hard - both going forward and with defensive duties - and is being justly rewarded with the game time that he deserves at the moment. I think it'd be sensible to play Dolan from the bench in the first part of the season, and if he continues as he has been doing, I don't see why Mowbray would omit him from the starting XI.

Something I remember about Chapman's initial loan with us, Stuart, is that while the lad is clearly gifted, he didn't always play that way. I think against Rochdale in the EFL Trophy (or whatever it's called), he was about the worst player on the pitch. And Ben Gladwin was on it, too. I'm not just basing the following opinion of him on that one match, but it's just one example of several that indicate he's just not motivated. I get the impression that he doesn't think it matters unless it's an "important" game. He has a nice contract, and so he should show that he is willing to play for it - even if he's feeling out of form. We've seen very little of that fight, and I don't understand why Mowbray is to blame for that. Some players just have stinking attitudes. There are enough young players that Mowbray has brought into the first-team fold to nullify the "he's been Mowbrayed" argument.

Not the flair players. Only those who get their heads down and accept they’ve been ‘Mowbrayed’.

Genuinely hope you are right about Dolan. He looks an astonishing free signing. Looking like he has to play on the right wing but that requires a complete change in style. What happens when Dack is back and where does Gallagher play? I imagine he’ll be an impact sub for Mowbray - is that the best use of him?

Edited by Stuart

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10 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Genuinely hope you are right about Dolan. He looks an astonishing free signing. Looking like he has to play on the right wing but that requires a complete change in style. What happens when Dack is back and where does Gallagher play? I imagine he’ll be an impact sub for Mowbray - is that the best use of him?

I'm still sat here wondering if the best use of Armstrong is as an impact sub, but I'll park that for now, since this the Harry Chapman thread, and continue talking about Tyrhys Dolan 😁

But that possibly says something about Chapman... The fact that we're referring to Dolan, and perhaps how we wanted Chapman to be. I don't mean to sound all Steve Kean, but Dolan reminds me a little of Sterling; low centre of gravity, short, bloody quick, works hard... Some great signs so far. Dolan also came from Man City's academy, originally. It's nice to finally see a player who really would fit into the wide forward role - the future of which I'd love to see Dolan on the right and JRC on the left, rather than sticking someone like Gallagher in there. I really hope we don't dump Dolan in the U23s, because the guy is exciting to watch - and effective.

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You and me both 

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4 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Dolan>>>>>Chapman

There's room for both.

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8 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

There's room for both.

Definitely. Difference between Dolan and Chapman, is probably that Dolan tracks back and appears to have it all currently.

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8 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Definitely. Difference between Dolan and Chapman, is probably that Dolan tracks back and appears to have it all currently.

Does he?!

Hes fast, hes tricky, hes skilful, hes very exciting but hes played a couple of cameos and an hour yesterday, I cant fathom how such a conclusion can have been made already.

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21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Does he?!

Hes fast, hes tricky, hes skilful, hes very exciting but hes played a couple of cameos and an hour yesterday, I cant fathom how such a conclusion can have been made already.

In terms of will attack and will track back. 

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cos he out performed by Dolan in pre season and in the 1st 3 games 

Dolan offers skill, pace, work hard, knows when to press and when not. 

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If we're sticking with 433 Chapman is going to get a fair amount of game time I think. Big winners from that formation are the wingers.

There's two wide roles to fill each game and Chapman has already got on the pitch several times. Needs to show he's worth it. If he makes an impact he will be picked again. I don't think there is really much to it beyond that.

The whole "Mowbray has his favourites" rubbish is wearing more than a little thin. Where are Smallwood, Bennett, Evans etc. It's embarrassing to harp on about something that is not happening.

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