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Pete1981

Venkys London Ltd accounts

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few questions for the money lads;


How much of the the previous 2 seasons losses been on funds / wages / costs of our academy?

Would the sanctions come in season 4 of the division? Ie 22/23? As it takes three seasons to work out losses?

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6 minutes ago, toogs said:

The pathetic service at the food bars could be improved for a start. Pull a load of pints so they are ready to sell at half time. They couldn’t even sell me a beer i wanted to purchase at the last home game. I keep being told that football is a business but we can’t even get the fundamentals right. Shambolic. 

Could not agree more re the pint thing.

It’s almost like they don’t expect loads of people to buy stuff at half time....

The last two home games in JW upper, they have run out of pies before half time!

Edited by K-Hod

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Just now, K-Hod said:

Could not agree more re the pint thing.

It’s almost like they don’t expect loads of people to buy stuff at half time....

The last two home games in JW upper, they have run out of pies before half time!

Still sore about that..!

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2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

I’d venture Lenihan, Travis, Nyambe in that order is our new pecking order of saleable assets. 

For FFP purposes it’s not simply a case of adding up the last three years’ losses & hoping it comes to less than £39m of course. The running costs of the academy are an allowable expense for FFP so the development and onward sale of talent is the most likely income stream. Ticket sales aren’t growing, non-Matchday revenues opportunities are minimal, sponsorship in the Championship isn’t great, TV money is better than League One but nothing to write home about so player sales is the only other option.

I suspect that under their new (former Burnley) CEO, the EFL will soon stop the sale & leaseback of a stadium; a loophole closed. Sheff Weds hilarious legal action will bring that to a conclusion no doubt. 
Rovers recently advertised for a new head of commercial or marketing or something like that, with responsibility for growing revenues...having seen these figures, it’s no wonder. That role is probably the 2nd most important in the club right now. 

If it was so important to grow income and revenues I would expect to see the club go out and headhunt a proven successful individual from elsewhere in the industry. The fact we are advertising for the role suggests we will react to those who apply rather than proactively go out and recruit a leading figure and pay him/her top dollar to deliver results.

Let's be realistic. At no stage during Venky ownership have we had an executive structure worthy of a club of this size and stature.

Why did the last commercial manager leave? 

Why have we not had a commercial director since Dave Biggar went off to America having landed the lucrative sponsorship deal with Dafabet?

Even when we've had people like Waggott and Shaw they have ended up in the job through being mates with the right people and havent really had any power.

What freedom will the new commercial person have to revitalise that department of the club? Very little would be my prediction.

The owners have shown no desire nor interest to employ the right calibre of people to run the club on the lines required to make a big difference. Shame but that's their decision.

A bit like they've never invested sufficiently in the playing or coaching staff to propel us into serious contention. Up to them.

 

Edited by JHRover

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59 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

An alternative interpretation is that our losses are entirely a consequence of being a mid-table Championship club rather than anything uniquely Venky-esque in how the club is run. (Image nicked off Twitter)

19AA0834-DB23-4F27-991A-AE37319A52D9.jpeg

Given those figures how did all the clubs in the top bunch ( other than Brum ) avoid points deductions for FFP on the basis of one season alone ?

Why were Birmingham singled out ? 

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8 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Given those figures how did all the clubs in the top bunch ( other than Brum ) avoid points deductions for FFP on the basis of one season alone ?

Why were Birmingham singled out ? 

I think that graphic is accounting operating losses.

FFP has its own calculation to take into account allowable expenses etc so the net profit from the accounts is adjusted to create an "FFP profit" figure which is then rolled up to generate the 3 year figure (must be <£39m) which is the threshold calculation...

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1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

But this time it was avoidable and self inflicted!

Couldn’t agree more. I’m reading John Duerden’s book on the Rovers Revolution and he describes the progress of the club from the cash strapped days of the 70’s and 80’s. Rovers had to sell Kevin Stonehouse to Huddersfield for £30k just to pay a utility bill!

Most of us thought those days were long gone. We were the kings of the castle not so long ago; now thanks to certain individuals we are the paupers at the gate.

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Just now, Herbie6590 said:

I think that graphic is accounting operating losses.

FFP has its own calculation to take into account allowable expenses etc so the net profit from the accounts is adjusted to create an "FFP profit" figure which is then rolled up to generate the 3 year figure (must be <£39m) which is the threshold calculation...

Yes and some of those clubs are or have been in the Premier League since the most recent published numbers so have the boost from that; Derby and Sheffield Wednesday sold their grounds.

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15 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Given those figures how did all the clubs in the top bunch ( other than Brum ) avoid points deductions for FFP on the basis of one season alone ?

Why were Birmingham singled out ? 

A few points:

- Those appear to be 'operating losses', which excludes player trading. Most Championship clubs make fairly hefty player trading profits. Villa, for example, made £16m in profits in 2018. Middlesbrough and Forest have made significant sales in recent years too. Bristol City has been running under the 'benefactor model' for years, but then made huge sales in 2019 (they actually netted a profit of £10m last year after player sales). Leeds have been roughly breaking even the last few years due to player trading.

- FFP is a 3-year window, so how much those individual season losses matter depends on the context of the 3-year window, which may include the higher allowed losses of the PL (see Villa and Stoke). (Villa's 2019 numbers will be interesting to say the least... they were quite fortunate to get promoted! Although sounds like they also went the stadium selling route)

- You also need to consider promotion bonuses, which are de facto excluded from FFP (I think due to a combination of it being unfair to punish clubs for rewarding players/staff with a share of the coming PL windfall and EFL not really having that much teeth to punish clubs once they're promoted) - applies to Wolves, Norwich, and Fulham

- I think that leaves Derby (who did the stadium selling trickery), Sheffield Wed (who are due to have the book thrown at them this year for seemingly bungling their own stadium selling chicanery), and Reading (who appear to have benefited from a number of 'exceptional' accounting items, such as property sales and the realization of a grant). Reading's the curious one for me. Apparently they had a 'soft' transfer ban this past summer, whatever that means...

- Bit of a side point and not as significant as the above, but you also need to consider FFP exclusions for academy and community expenditure, which applies to many of the above clubs. With our significant facilities, I suspect that gives us another £4-5m of FFP room per year (hence why our 'other' operating expenditure is relatively high for the Championship at £8-12m/year)

Edited by RoverCanada

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17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

Why have we not had a commercial director since Dave Biggar went off to America having landed the lucrative sponsorship deal with Dafabet?

 

Because Myers brought him in. Perhaps though with the new "head of commercial" vacancy they are taking steps. Not sure what Coar's title will be now.

F*** U Platini. (FUP)

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Just now, RoverCanada said:

A few points:

- Those appear to be 'operating losses', which excludes player trading. Most Championship clubs make fairly hefty player trading profits. Villa, for example, made £16m in profits in 2018. Middlesbrough and Forest have made significant sales in recent years too. Bristol City has been running under the 'benefactor model' for years, but then made huge sales in 2019 (they actually netted a profit of £10m last year after player sales). Leeds have been roughly breaking even the last few years due to player trading.

- FFP is a 3-year window, so how much those individual season losses matter depends on the context of the 3-year window, which may include the higher allowed losses of the PL (see Villa and Stoke). (Villa's 2019 numbers will be interesting to say the least... they were quite fortunate to get promoted!)

- You also need to consider promotion bonuses, which are de facto excluded from FFP (I think due to a combination of it being unfair to punish clubs for rewarding players/staff with a share of the coming PL windfall and EFL not really having that much teeth to punish clubs once they're promoted) - applies to Wolves, Norwich, and Fulham

- I think that leaves Derby (who did the stadium selling trickery), Sheffield Wed (who are due to have the book thrown at them this year), and Reading (who appear to have benefited from a number of 'exceptional' accounting items, such as property sales and the realization of a grant). Reading's the curious one for me. Apparently they had a 'soft' transfer ban this past summer, whatever that means...

- Bit of a side point and not as significant as the above, but you also need to consider FFP exclusions for academy and community expenditure, which applies to many of the above clubs. With our significant facilities, I suspect that gives us another £4-5m of FFP room per year (hence why our 'other' operating expenditure is relatively high for the Championship at £8-12m/year)

Yes - I had a quick look through the clubs quoted with high losses and Reading were the club I couldn't work out ; if there was a property sale that would explain it

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1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Yes - I had a quick look through the clubs quoted with high losses and Reading were the club I couldn't work out ; if there was a property sale that would explain it

Reading have some shenanigans with land adjacent to their ground I seem to recall...I'm sure it will all be above board... *cough*

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1 hour ago, JHRover said:

Why did the last commercial manager leave? 

Why have we not had a commercial director since Dave Biggar went off to America having landed the lucrative sponsorship deal with Dafabet?

do think the last one leave but Greg Coar has been both role head of commercial and marketing. Look like they are splitting the role up now

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