[Archived] The January 2018 transfer thread

[JHRover]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

 

You seem to expect us to win every single game. In the real world, it doesn't happen. Even the very best teams have off days, and we're a long way from being that. Sometimes the opposition play above themselves, it happens in the Premier League too with bottom teams beating those at the top, and sometimes it's down to luck too; we've won a few games that we didn't deserve to. You can't expect the rub of the green all the time. Overall, we've been on a great run after a poor start; let's hope it continues. 

I go into every game expecting us to win. I know we won't do that but I also know that when you start being happy with draws you start to lose touch with the top 2.

I've just pointed to 3 very recent fixtures in succession where we dropped points. We dropped 6 points from a possible 12 on offer over Xmas, so that isn't an 'off day' its a succession of games where a large quantity of points have slipped by either due to poor performances (Northampton) or poor game management and mistakes (Scunthorpe and Rotherham).

Of course the best teams have days off. The best teams ensure those days are one-offs and a rare, however my concern is that for us they are too frequent and come around too often. Wigan a case in point - they've largely done the business relentlessly against the teams from 7th down to 24th however have struggled against the better sides from 2nd to 6th. But they can afford to do that because they do the basics of putting the dross of this division to the sword.

All to play for and I very much hope we iron out the bad performances and costly mistakes.

[jim mk2]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I go into every game expecting us to win. I know we won't do that but I also know that when you start being happy with draws you start to lose touch with the top 2.

I've just pointed to 3 very recent fixtures in succession where we dropped points. We dropped 6 points from a possible 12 on offer over Xmas, so that isn't an 'off day' its a succession of games where a large quantity of points have slipped by either due to poor performances (Northampton) or poor game management and mistakes (Scunthorpe and Rotherham).

Of course the best teams have days off. The best teams ensure those days are one-offs and a rare, however my concern is that for us they are too frequent and come around too often. Wigan a case in point - they've largely done the business relentlessly against the teams from 7th down to 24th however have struggled against the better sides from 2nd to 6th. But they can afford to do that because they do the basics of putting the dross of this division to the sword.

All to play for and I very much hope we iron out the bad performances and costly mistakes.

 

No one is "happy" with draws against the lower teams - but as pointed out previously it's going to happen.  

We "dropped 6 points points" over Christmas, but as pointed out previously we're not going to win every game. And those "dropped points" came after an excellent run of results in which we won games we didn't deserve to.

We've played better against the top teams but haven't always beaten the lower ones - Wigan are the opposite so it's swings and roundabouts. 

All to play for, we're on a good run but will continue to stumble here and there - like Wigan and Shrewsbury and the others. That's football reality

 

 

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 

All to play for, we're on a good run but will continue to stumble here and there - like Wigan and Shrewsbury and the others. That's football reality

What makes lower league, “lower league”..

Normally a lack of an aspect, ie quality, consistency and cohesion.

To expect us to blow everyone away is expecting too much.

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

What makes lower league, “lower league”..

Normally a lack of an aspect, ie quality, consistency and cohesion.

To expect us to blow everyone away is expecting too much.

It's all relative. Sheff Utd blew nearly everyone away last season. Wigan have done it this year to a certain extent. A few 0-0-'s recently but they've been consistently very good. The frustration for me is that we had a bad start simply because Mowbray got it appallingly wrong. He admitted himself he had to change the mentality and at that point we did start blowing teams away. It's a poor league and as we showed against Shrewsbury even the 2nd placed team can't really compete with us. There was a huge gap in quality imo.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

It's all relative. Sheff Utd blew nearly everyone away last season. Wigan have done it this year to a certain extent. A few 0-0-'s recently but they've been consistently very good. The frustration for me is that we had a bad start simply because Mowbray got it appallingly wrong. He admitted himself he had to change the mentality and at that point we did start blowing teams away. It's a poor league and as we showed against Shrewsbury even the 2nd placed team can't really compete with us. There was a huge gap in quality imo.

Wigan have blown nearly every one away this year...

They're 5 points ahead of us...

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Eddie said:

Wigan have blown nearly every one away this year...

They're 5 points ahead of us...

Nope, I said Sheff Utd. I said Wigan had done it to 'a certain extent'. And you are taking my post out of it's original context. Apart from that....

[Eddie]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Nope, I said Sheff Utd. I said Wigan had done it to 'a certain extent'. And you are taking my post out of it's original context. Apart from that....

Sorry, Wigan have blown nearly every one away 'to a certain extent'. Proper context? 

They're 5 points ahead of us...

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Eddie said:

Sorry, Wigan have blown nearly every one away 'to a certain extent'. Proper context? 

They're 5 points ahead of us...

Well done. It makes sense now doesn't it when you put to 'a certain extent'. Unless you want to quantify 'a certain extent' to some random number of points lead? A 7 point lead, 10, 12? You decide.

The actual context you also missed was that Biz stated because we are League 1 we (or anyone else) couldn't 'blow' teams away due to lack of 'aspects'. I pointed to two teams that have/ are doing it.  Sheff Utd finished 16 points or so clear last year. They blew the league away. That's the context. Wigan have more points than Sheff Utd had this time last season, and we're still 5 points behind them after going 15 unbeaten. To a certain extent etc

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, blueboy3333 said:

Well done. It makes sense now doesn't it when you put to 'a certain extent'. Unless you want to quantify 'a certain extent' to some random number of points lead? A 7 point lead, 10, 12? You decide.

The actual context you also missed was that Biz stated because we are League 1 we (or anyone else) couldn't 'blow' teams away due to lack of 'aspects'. I pointed to two teams that have/ are doing it.  Sheff Utd finished 16 points or so clear last year. They blew the league away. That's the context. Wigan have more points than Sheff Utd had this time last season, and we're still 5 points behind them after going 15 unbeaten. To a certain extent etc

 

Do we have more points than Sheffield Utd had at this point last season I wonder? 

[blueboy3333]

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do we have more points than Sheffield Utd had at this point last season I wonder? 

They had 56 from 27 games. We've got 52 from 26. Wigan have 57 from 26.

Think Sheff Utd  finished on 100 points after 46 games last year. Bolton in 2nd finished on 84 points (ish). It's a tougher league this year. 95 points for 2nd place?

[Al]

19 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Possibly agents wanting their cut? Like when Rhodes went to Boro.

That's my bet. I hate the bums.

[AAK]

55 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do we have more points than Sheffield Utd had at this point last season I wonder? 

		Team	P	GD	Team P GD Pts 1   Wigan 26 38 57 2   Shrewsbury 26 16 54   3   Blackburn 26 24 52 4   Scunthorpe 27 15 50 5   Bradford 27 7 48 6   Charlton 27 2 43   7   Portsmouth 27 3 42 8   Rotherham 27 9 41 9   Peterborough 27 6 40 10   Oxford Utd 28 2 38 11   Fleetwood 27 -3 36 12   Doncaster 27 1 35 13   Plymouth 28 -5 35 14   Gillingham 27 -1 34 15   Walsall 26 -2 33 16   Blackpool 28 -4 33 17   Bristol Rovers 27 -7 33 18   Southend 28 -15 31 19   MK Dons 27 -10 30 20   Oldham 28 -10 29   21   Northampton 28 -23 29 22   Wimbledon 26 -9 28 23   Rochdale 26 -11 22 24   Bury 27 -23 17
1		Sheff Utd	27	21	56
2		Scunthorpe	27	27	55
3		Bolton	26	16	50
4		Bradford	27	11	45
5		Rochdale	26	9	45
6		Fleetwood	26	10	43
7		Southend	27	5	42
8		Millwall	26	2	39
9		Bristol Rovers	27	-1	39
10		Peterborough	25	8	38
11		Charlton	26	7	36
12		Wimbledon	26	5	36
13		Oxford Utd	26	0	34
14		Walsall	26	-4	34
15		Port Vale	25	-10	31
16		Northampton	27	-7	30
17		Gillingham	26	-9	30
18		Swindon	27	-13	29
19		MK Dons	25	-5	28
20		Bury	27	-12	25
21		Shrewsbury	27	-14	25
22		Chesterfield	27	-17	25
23		Oldham	25	-14	22
24		Coventry	26	-15	21

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

They had 56 from 27 games. We've got 52 from 26. Wigan have 57 from 26.

Think Sheff Utd  finished on 100 points after 46 games last year. Bolton in 2nd finished on 84 points (ish). It's a tougher league this year. 95 points for 2nd place?

 

Just now, AAK said:

		Team	P	GD	Team P GD Pts 1   Wigan 26 38 57 2   Shrewsbury 26 16 54   3   Blackburn 26 24 52 4   Scunthorpe 27 15 50 5   Bradford 27 7 48 6   Charlton 27 2 43   7   Portsmouth 27 3 42 8   Rotherham 27 9 41 9   Peterborough 27 6 40 10   Oxford Utd 28 2 38 11   Fleetwood 27 -3 36 12   Doncaster 27 1 35 13   Plymouth 28 -5 35 14   Gillingham 27 -1 34 15   Walsall 26 -2 33 16   Blackpool 28 -4 33 17   Bristol Rovers 27 -7 33 18   Southend 28 -15 31 19   MK Dons 27 -10 30 20   Oldham 28 -10 29   21   Northampton 28 -23 29 22   Wimbledon 26 -9 28 23   Rochdale 26 -11 22 24   Bury 27 -23 17
1		Sheff Utd	27	21	56
2		Scunthorpe	27	27	55
3		Bolton	26	16	50
4		Bradford	27	11	45
5		Rochdale	26	9	45
6		Fleetwood	26	10	43
7		Southend	27	5	42
8		Millwall	26	2	39
9		Bristol Rovers	27	-1	39
10		Peterborough	25	8	38
11		Charlton	26	7	36
12		Wimbledon	26	5	36
13		Oxford Utd	26	0	34
14		Walsall	26	-4	34
15		Port Vale	25	-10	31
16		Northampton	27	-7	30
17		Gillingham	26	-9	30
18		Swindon	27	-13	29
19		MK Dons	25	-5	28
20		Bury	27	-12	25
21		Shrewsbury	27	-14	25
22		Chesterfield	27	-17	25
23		Oldham	25	-14	22
24		Coventry	26	-15	21

I reckon we could beat their total. When you consider our bad start and the additions to the squad this month, players to return from injuries etc 

[AllRoverAsia]

13 minutes ago, Al said:

That's my bet. I hate the bums.

I am not convinced. Agents will be involved, they always are. There must be an established way of conducting any transfer, in particular who pays the cockroaches fees.

If it is the reason then the usual party responsible for payment is objecting.

Is that us or Fleetwood?

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

I reckon we could beat their total. When you consider our bad start and the additions to the squad this month, players to return from injuries etc 

A Rovers win tomorrow will put us on 55 points after 27 games, just 1 point off the Sheff Utd figure for 27 games played.

It is certainly feasible that we could match or beat their final total.

[blueboy3333]

6 minutes ago, AAK said:

		Team	P	GD	Team P GD Pts 1   Wigan 26 38 57 2   Shrewsbury 26 16 54   3   Blackburn 26 24 52 4   Scunthorpe 27 15 50 5   Bradford 27 7 48 6   Charlton 27 2 43   7   Portsmouth 27 3 42 8   Rotherham 27 9 41 9   Peterborough 27 6 40 10   Oxford Utd 28 2 38 11   Fleetwood 27 -3 36 12   Doncaster 27 1 35 13   Plymouth 28 -5 35 14   Gillingham 27 -1 34 15   Walsall 26 -2 33 16   Blackpool 28 -4 33 17   Bristol Rovers 27 -7 33 18   Southend 28 -15 31 19   MK Dons 27 -10 30 20   Oldham 28 -10 29   21   Northampton 28 -23 29 22   Wimbledon 26 -9 28 23   Rochdale 26 -11 22 24   Bury 27 -23 17
1		Sheff Utd	27	21	56
2		Scunthorpe	27	27	55
3		Bolton	26	16	50
4		Bradford	27	11	45
5		Rochdale	26	9	45
6		Fleetwood	26	10	43
7		Southend	27	5	42
8		Millwall	26	2	39
9		Bristol Rovers	27	-1	39
10		Peterborough	25	8	38
11		Charlton	26	7	36
12		Wimbledon	26	5	36
13		Oxford Utd	26	0	34
14		Walsall	26	-4	34
15		Port Vale	25	-10	31
16		Northampton	27	-7	30
17		Gillingham	26	-9	30
18		Swindon	27	-13	29
19		MK Dons	25	-5	28
20		Bury	27	-12	25
21		Shrewsbury	27	-14	25
22		Chesterfield	27	-17	25
23		Oldham	25	-14	22
24		Coventry	26	-15	21

Scunny crashed and burned last season in the 2nd half of the season, as did Bolton to a certain extent. Be interesting to see if anyone falls away drastically this season. Scunny may be better off for their experience last year.

[JHRover]

Wigan's results vs the current top 6 sides:

Shrewsbury home - draw, Shrewsbury away - lost

Rovers home - draw

Scunthorpe away - won

Bradford home - lost

Charlton home - drew, Charlton away - won

So from a possible 21 points they've collected 9.

Also 1 point from 6 against Peterborough and 1 point from 3 against Pompey who have been there or thereabouts this season.

Meanwhile vs the teams not mentioned above they have played 17 times, winning 15 and drawing 2, and haven't lost yet.

The point I was trying to make earlier was to compare and contrast attempt with our results. The reason Wigan have been top of the league from August until now is because they've done the business against the mediocre sides in the league and therefore have been able to afford a slip up every so often against the stronger sides.

My concern is that we haven't been as consistent as Wigan in overcoming the garbage sides, which has put additional pressure on the games vs rivals and has kept us out of the top 2 so far despite an impressive record against our fellow promotion candidates.

For comparison purposes, we've picked up 15 from 21 vs fellow top 6 sides, remaining unbeaten to date, and have also comprehensively beaten Peterborough and Portsmouth.

It might well be inconsequential in the end. I hope it is. But at this stage the reason we've not got into the top 2 for any period of time is because we've slipped up against the poorer sides too often. If we're going to break in there and then stay there we'll have to be better at dispatching the likes of Wimbledon, Northampton and Doncaster etc.

I don't think we will win every week. I'm merely trying to point out the reason why we haven't, to date, occupied a top 2 slot - namely that we've too often dropped points against the poorer sides in the league.

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Scunny crashed and burned last season in the 2nd half of the season, as did Bolton to a certain extent. Be interesting to see if anyone falls away drastically this season. Scunny may be better off for their experience last year.

How did Bolton crash and burn if they ended ended up finishing higher than above?? 

[JHRover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

How did Bolton crash and burn if they ended ended up finishing higher than above?? 

Their first 26 games brought them 50 odd points and their final 20 games brought them 30 points. Their form in the final 20 games at 1.5 points per game was traditionally well below the level required. Applied to this season we'd only need to win 10 or 11 of our remaining 21 to secure automatic promotion. I think that's highly unlikely to happen with Shrewsbury, Scunny and Bradford in the mix.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Their first 26 games brought them 50 odd points and their final 20 games brought them 30 points. Their form in the final 20 games at 1.5 points per game was traditionally well below the level required. Applied to this season we'd only need to win 10 or 11 of our remaining 21 to secure automatic promotion. I think that's highly unlikely to happen with Shrewsbury, Scunny and Bradford in the mix.

Some crash and burn going from 3rd to 2nd  I get your point though. 

[Dreams of 1995]

21 hours ago, JacknOry said:

I've had this feeling with both Armstrong and Payne. Chapman too would be fantastic, imagine that lot and Dack going into the Championship. We would certainly have more than a fighting chance of staying up.

I'd expect a lot more than just staying up. Payne played a part in Huddersfields promotion and whilst I'm not saying I'd expect that I'd be looking at us perhaps cementing mid table. If you sign Chapman, Armstrong & Payne in the window next summer, plus Bell this window, then you've got a squad of young players that I expect will be more than capable of performing in the Championship. There would seem to be a plan in place that extends far beyond Mowbray's tenure as manager.

With those additions I'd say we would be a right back, centre half, striker and central midfielder away from a decent promotion push in the Championship. This dependant on Raya really kicking on next season and cutting out the silly mistakes.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'd expect a lot more than just staying up. Payne played a part in Huddersfields promotion and whilst I'm not saying I'd expect that I'd be looking at us perhaps cementing mid table. If you sign Chapman, Armstrong & Payne in the window next summer, plus Bell this window, then you've got a squad of young players that I expect will be more than capable of performing in the Championship. There would seem to be a plan in place that extends far beyond Mowbray's tenure as manager.

With those additions I'd say we would be a right back, centre half, striker and central midfielder away from a decent promotion push in the Championship. This dependant on Raya really kicking on next season and cutting out the silly mistakes.

Agreed.

If we go up the expectation will be to push on and mount a play-off push, not to merely stay up. 

[Dreams of 1995]

6 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Agreed.

If we go up the expectation will be to push on and mount a play-off push, not to merely stay up. 

I'd expect a season of consolidation first, BDS. I think bouncing through the leagues is beyond us because I doubt Venkys will give us any serious investment next season. I still expect us to be milling around the kind of figures we have done in summer/winter. A promotion may just rekindle their interest and maybe Baz will chip in with another decent fee. Other clubs have shown that spending isn't necessarily going to guarantee success though (Villa) so the idea of success being impossible without big money transfers is wrong.

However we have to learn mistakes from our last 3 seasons in the Championship. You simply cannot sell the better players and replace with the type of players we were buying, churning them up from the dregs of the transfer market and expect success or even stability.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Charlton must like our bad boys

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42748547

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Charlton must like our bad boys

 

Not as much as I like Elvis impersonators!