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Rovers' finances

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

I suspect a post-COVID football world is going to be very different. Chasing the dream in the Championship for potentially a single season of “glory” is surely going to be even less sustainable ?

I have listened to most of the "price of football" podcasts which explains lots of the financials of football. The one or two seasons in the Premier League "and all its riches" does come across as a bit of an urban myth. It seems as soon as you get your Premier League cash, everybody is knocking at your door for bonuses, higher wages, infrastructure improvements, player purchase clauses costs and a whole host of things. It's a broken model I'm afraid.

 

* That's also with the hope that owners who have blown £10's - £100 million dont want any of their cash back!!

Edited by cesus

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38 minutes ago, cesus said:

I have listened to most of the "price of football" podcasts which explains lots of the financials of football. The one or two seasons in the Premier League "and all its riches" does come across as a bit of an urban myth. It seems as soon as you get your Premier League cash, everybody is knocking at your door for bonuses, higher wages, infrastructure improvements, player purchase clauses costs and a whole host of things. It's a broken model I'm afraid.

 

* That's also with the hope that owners who have blown £10's - £100 million dont want any of their cash back!!

Look no further than Huddersfield for a prime example. Two seasons in the PL, parachute payments and now crying poverty.

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With the amount they take in money in the Prem no established club should carry much real debt. Until they fix the complete cash drain that is players wages / agents and other parasites fees and astronomical transfer fees it'll never change.

All people in suits do is figure out ways to get money out of clubs, those at the top should be figuring out ways to keep money in the game and keep it solvent.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Look no further than Huddersfield for a prime example. Two seasons in the PL, parachute payments and now crying poverty.

Interesting, hadn't caught what Huddersfield's been saying/claiming of late. They also (amazingly) managed two years in the PL, which is a key threshold as that means they have three years of parachute payments ahead of them (£93m over three years versus £77m over two years... albeit only £15m in that final year).

A quick glance suggests, compared to a counterfactual of losing £7m/year in the Championship, as they'd roughly been doing before promotion, Huddersfield made about £40m more in profit between their promotion year and their final year in the PL (that's including subtracting the extra £12m or so loss from promotion bonuses). They partly used that to lower Hoyle's loan from £52m to £45m and build up their cash reserves from £3m to £14m.

Their wage bill was only £64m (19th in the PL) when they got relegated, and their transfer spending wasn't all that high either, so I doubt they've got that much legacy costs from the PL to cover.

However, they also apparently took on a £31m loan that was secured against future TV money and have committed to repay Hoyle another £35m over the next couple years, so that's what seems to be causing them problems now, despite 3 years of parachute payments ahead.

(Swiss Ramble went through their latest accounts last month for reference: https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1247051806934536192)

At least from my view, they appear to me to be a 'model' for using promotion to make some money (/repay past debts), but I guess relegation means they can't pay off Hoyle's loans as fast as they had committed. Fulham could be seen as the example on the other side of that (and they got relegated after one season, so only 2 seasons of parachute payments for them).

(And, goes without saying that this is all from the perspective of a pre-covid world...)

 

Edited by RoverCanada

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49 minutes ago, tomphil said:

With the amount they take in money in the Prem no established club should carry much real debt. Until they fix the complete cash drain that is players wages / agents and other parasites fees and astronomical transfer fees it'll never change.

All people in suits do is figure out ways to get money out of clubs, those at the top should be figuring out ways to keep money in the game and keep it solvent.

Completely agree with this, I also genuinely believe that some of these conversations have taken place even before COVID. The problem comes from the powerful few do not want to relinquish any inch of power they have over the others. Hell not so Liverpool tried to copyright the word Liverpool, as did Man Utd with United.

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7 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

......, struggle to boost commercial income and are completely in hock to our owners. 
Oh yeah....the directors have doubled their wages though...trebles all round....😳

This was what caught my eye more than anything else, the rest is copy/paste pattern from previous years.

It's really weird that Steve Waggo is rinsing literally every penny from the supporters, yet the directors got a big wack up on remuneration. 

Could explain the Waggo tax though.

 

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As i say every time and will till i'm blue in the face, i'd love to see who is actually on the BRFC/VLL payroll in fine detail. 

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Coronavirus should have been the great leveller. Sadly the PL is going to be propped up and will probably outlast the rest of the EFL.

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5 hours ago, tomphil said:

As i say every time and will till i'm blue in the face, i'd love to see who is actually on the BRFC/VLL payroll in fine detail. 

Highest paid director on £300,000 per annum. We assume that's Waggott, might be someone else.

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Not a bad screw when you think crowds have fallen further, the stadium is dirty on the outside, he's over estimated ST sales leaving a 300k hole in his budget. Oh and they've blown 12 million on his watch.

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25 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Oh and they've blown 12 million on his watch.

Must be a nice one....😚

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2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Must be a nice one....😚

It is but he'll never get his money back.

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Easily £100million of that is sadly down to Venky's own mistakes which have cost the club, the town and the fans far more in psychic anguish.

But we are where we are and they are sticking by us and providing the club's lifeblood in hard cash.

And I will say thank you for this latest £6m.

For without these capital injections from India we would be Bury.

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Brilliant post. There is absolutely no reason to be thankful. What has happened to Bury is undoubtedly sad but if anyone is content purely because the club is still in business, they have crazily low standards.

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We wouldn't be Bury overnight as there are assets to cash which would keep the show on the road.  Might well be the beginning of another slow death though unless a quick and meaningful takeover came to fruition.

 

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2 hours ago, philipl said:

 

But we are where we are and they are sticking by us 

 

Aren’t they virtuous.

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Probably as good as anywhere to stick this but both the Issa Brothers (EG) and Boparan (Two Sisters) are featured in the FT today as having serious corporate governance concerns.

The Asda take over is by the Issas personally and the Hedge Fund they work with, not by EG whose auditors resigned yesterday.

Still heads in the sand by most over Venkys.

There is zero realistic alternative even in people's dreams as far as I can see.

Apart from suffering the same fate as three northern towns just to the south of Blackburn..

Edited by philipl

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I hope we never have anything to do with Boparan/2 Sisters, I used to work for them for a couple of years 👎👎👎

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Swiss Ramble's tweets are linked to by the FT this morning.

 

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Having to put their hand in their pocket to cover a failed season ticket strategy (rolled up into CV-19 and ‘the fans’). This must be the worst CEO-to-fan relationship we’ve had in a long time. You cannot demand loyalty, it has to be earned and rewarded.

Heads should roll and people shouldn’t be surprised. It would happen at any other club. Yet fans (and there is already a post about this in a Facebook group) are eulogising about our benefactors. If these people really believed that and weren’t playing superfans they should be saying that Venkys are STILL being taken for a ride.

As it is, they only have themselves to blame for the entire situation.

Lest we all forget, there is a theme of the type of person Venkys like to have around. ‘Nice men’ who ‘toe the line’.

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