Why do we concede so many last minute goals?

[davefarnworth]

Just rubbish at defending.  Get a Graham Hawkins type. Oops showing my age. Merry Christmas 

[G Somerset Rover]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

To be fair there's a reason he cost less than £2m. In today's market that is peanuts, especially for a player who was at a PL club.

I know League one is League one but he still showed predatory instincts. He knew how to get away from a defender and his finishing was pretty decent. The step us has been huge for him - as it had been at Barnsley and Bolton. He’s quite literally been shite. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt simply because writing him off before he’s had a run up top would be harsh and foolish on our behalf - despite his diabolical form.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[DE.]

5 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I know League one is League one but he still showed predatory instincts. He knew how to get away from a defender and his finishing was pretty decent. The step us has been huge for him - as it had been at Barnsley and Bolton. He’s quite literally been shite. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt simply because writing him off before he’s had a run up top would be harsh and foolish on our behalf - despite his diabolical form.

I honestly took very little away from last season because the standard of the league was so poor. Even then whilst Armstrong did have a purple patch when he joined, his goals dried up almost completely after that. I remember being concerned by that at the time and I wasn't convinced he should be signed permanently. 

All of that said he is ultimately playing out of position so the blame still lies squarely with Mowbray. If he wanted a wide man he should have bought a wide man, not a bloody striker to play there. The same nonsense was happening with big Dom before his injury. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

8 minutes ago, davefarnworth said:

Just rubbish at defending.  Get a Graham Hawkins type. Oops showing my age. Merry Christmas 

Do I hear the rattling chains of the Ghost of Christmas Past, John McNamee....?

[G Somerset Rover]

4 minutes ago, DE. said:

I honestly took very little away from last season because the standard of the league was so poor. Even then whilst Armstrong did have a purple patch when he joined, his goals dried up almost completely after that. I remember being concerned by that at the time and I wasn't convinced he should be signed permanently. 

All of that said he is ultimately playing out of position so the blame still lies squarely with Mowbray. If he wanted a wide man he should have bought a wide man, not a bloody striker to play there. The same nonsense was happening with big Dom before his injury. 

Yep. Said it before so apologies but Gallagher will be the latest in the long line of strikers come wingers that TM plumps with come January. Genuinely think he must either lie in the negotiations or tell the player there’s an Arjen Robben waiting to break out in them. Can’t think of why else they’d sign for us other than the dollar.

[davefarnworth]

He was my second choice my Cannuck friend. I was a Michigander once. Take care. Hate Toronto btw. On my honeymoon there and they were so aggressive to the English. But merry Christmas 

[USABlue]

On 17/12/2018 at 08:32, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think Davenport was meant to be the upgrade in the middle. It is unfortunate that he has been injured 

Is he playing now or still injured.

[AllRoverAsia]

38 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Is he playing now or still injured.

Due to be announced as "like a new signing" in the January window unless he goes all Gladwinesque on the injury front.

[yellowsubmarine]

7 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Talking about one trick pony Arma - at one point in the second half he skinned their defender and could have carried on sprinting with the ball and angled in towards their area. He would have been 1 on 1. He got past his man and just eased up, dallied on the ball and gave it away. Scandalous. He may not be a winger but I’m beginning to think he’s just shite.

Saw him like this last season. Was thinking Mowbray may be unleashing him as an overlapping wingback (ala Mendy of Man City) once we get promoted to the Championship. But so far, like you mentioned, he's pure shite.

Sorry for a moment, i thought u were referring to Amarii Bell.

Edited December 27, 2018 by yellowsubmarine

[DE.]

9 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Yep. Said it before so apologies but Gallagher will be the latest in the long line of strikers come wingers that TM plumps with come January. Genuinely think he must either lie in the negotiations or tell the player there’s an Arjen Robben waiting to break out in them. Can’t think of why else they’d sign for us other than the dollar.

I think Tony probably sells his vision quite well to prospective attacking signings, but his words likely don't match the reality of the situation.

I'm sure that Tony genuinely does want to play with two inside forwards. It seems obvious he wants those inside forwards to be supported by the target man (in our case DG) holding the ball up and bringing them into play either via overlapping runs into the space behind DG or from a lay off to and through ball by Dack. In theory the full backs would be operarating as wing backs, also getting forward to support the attacking players through crosses or through balls behind defenders into the inside forward to either get a shot on goal or put the ball across to Graham/Dack for the shot. If that is the goal then it makes sense for Tony to be looking at players with the general skills of Armstrong, Brereton, Palmer, etc for that inside forward role as it needs the player to be mobile, energetic and decent in front of goal. 

The problem is that type of system is pretty attacking minded, which is the total opposite to Mowbray's naturally ultra cautious, defensive mindset. It's a little baffling to me that this is what Tony is fixated on achieving when it's clearly not based on his personal preferences as far as caution and defence are concerned. To play a system with two inside forwards, a target man and an attacking creative midfielder your team either needs to be on the front foot throughout games or be extremely quick on the counter attack. We already know Rovers are not set up to impose themselves on games, particularly with the Smallwood/Evans axis, and we counter attack at a pathetically glacial speed which makes that route of attack largely redundant. 

We're also not particularly dynamic or intelligent when we're on the ball. Our slow playing speed means that it's rare for us to create gaps in the opposition's defence. I think this is why the likes of Armstrong end up drifting out to the wing position as opposed to the inside forward area - they're looking for space. Unfortunately they end up out wide so often that they essentially become wingers, making the inside forward idea and concept irrelevent. It also isolates DG and Dack as they are not supported at all and basically have to try and create everything between the two of them.  

I have to assume the reason Mowbray is choosing to buy strikers to play up top is because he really does want to play a system which is narrow up top with overlapping wing backs providing the width as and when necessary. It just doesn't work because our players aren't (imo anyway) capable of playing such a system effectively. We would need upgrades in numerous positions to achieve what Mowbray seems to be after, and he himself would need to shift to a more aggressive, attacking mindset. I would be surprised to see either happen which leaves us stuck playing a formation and style that doesn't suit the personnel available.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

15 hours ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Huge shame, and a bit of a surprise as he was a colossus when coming back from injury at the end of last season. Just not happening for him this term - rash and nervous as you guys have pointed out.

We're playing a much higher level than last season.

[Stuart]

Cold light of day.

Another win turned into a draw because of our inability to hold on and do the simple things well? (More of the same fragility)

Or outclassed by the quality of subs that Benitez brought on and did well not to lose the game? (An improvement against superior opposition)

[Roverthechimp]

Both. 

But being honest they obliterated our defence for large periods - Raya saved us a few times and even Danny Graham gets a mention on BBC for blocking shots ?

[SBlue]

34 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Cold light of day.

Another win turned into a draw because of our inability to hold on and do the simple things well? (More of the same fragility)

Or outclassed by the quality of subs that Benitez brought on and did well not to lose the game? (An improvement against superior opposition)

I’d say a soft penalty.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, S8 & Blue said:

I’d say a soft penalty.

I think the VAR ones always are. Always on a technicality, and most times the referee is called over to check he is already under pressure to change his mind because reviews the ref got “right” are never referred. This effectively means VAR matches have two referees, not one, and the one off the pitch has more influence in crucial decision making by simply making the referral. If VAR was used more extensively and to the letter of the law, football would become an exercise in set-pieces.

It’s also why having the technology used in only *some* games and not all is morally corrupt. If that had been played at 3pm and not chosen for TV we would have won 1-0.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Stuart

[ChrisPriceBaldSpot]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Cold light of day.

Another win turned into a draw because of our inability to hold on and do the simple things well? (More of the same fragility)

Or outclassed by the quality of subs that Benitez brought on and did well not to lose the game? (An improvement against superior opposition)

They are a premier league team. Shelvey, Perez and Atsu would walk into our team. So to have those 3 to bring on then they were obviously gonna put all the pressure on us. For me it wasn't a penalty. He dived after no contact. Our boys deserve great credit for their performance yesterday and don't need to be thinking that they let themselves and us supporters down. 

[Auburn Rover]

Just saw a stat that said of Rovers 41 goals conceded in league matches this year, 20 have occurred in the last 15 minutes ( or stoppage time) of matches. These resulted in 14 points dropped through today’s match v Ipswich. 

 

Just think: those 14 points on our tally would have us tied for first w /Leeds ( second on goal difference). 

I hope we see no more goals allowed in the last 15 minutes of any of our matches for the rest of this year. That just might eke us into playoff spots. 

[JacknOry]

5 hours ago, Auburn Rover said:

Just saw a stat that said of Rovers 41 goals conceded in league matches this year, 20 have occurred in the last 15 minutes ( or stoppage time) of matches. These resulted in 14 points dropped through today’s match v Ipswich. 

 

Just think: those 14 points on our tally would have us tied for first w /Leeds ( second on goal difference). 

I hope we see no more goals allowed in the last 15 minutes of any of our matches for the rest of this year. That just might eke us into playoff spots. 

Exactly and while we are in a great position that many would have taken at the start of the season, it feels like its not due to punching above our weight so much but that we could and probably should have been even higher. Nice problem to have of course knowing that with a bit more concentration we could be int he playoffs or even top two.

[had.e.nuff]

8 hours ago, Auburn Rover said:

Just saw a stat that said of Rovers 41 goals conceded in league matches this year, 20 have occurred in the last 15 minutes ( or stoppage time) of matches. These resulted in 14 points dropped through today’s match v Ipswich. 

 

Just think: those 14 points on our tally would have us tied for first w /Leeds ( second on goal difference). 

I hope we see no more goals allowed in the last 15 minutes of any of our matches for the rest of this year. That just might eke us into playoff spots. 

If we had held on in all those games we would be ahead of leeds, I think we are about where i thought we would be this season top 10 finish unless we add to the squad in Jan and we keep fairly injury free.

[47er]

7 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

If we had held on in all those games we would be ahead of leeds, I think we are about where i thought we would be this season top 10 finish unless we add to the squad in Jan and we keep fairly injury free.

Assuming Leeds hadn't conceded any in the last 15 minutes of course!

[DE.]

To be fair there are all sorts of if, ands and but that other teams in this division could apply to their own stats that would see them placed higher as well. Nothing useful will come of dwelling on the points we could have had - we didn't get them because we weren't good enough to get them. The trick isn't to look back and be annoyed but to learn from those mistakes and make sure it doesn't happen going forward. There are tentative signs lately that we're getting there, although we made unnecessarily hard work of the WBA game by conceding and we nearly let Ipswich back into the game yesterday with a stupid miscommunication between keeper and defender as well. Until those silly lapses in concentration stop we haven't improved enough to say we're over that hurdle. 

[Tom Stinny]

I know the answer to the thread question. Wait for it.............. Poor fitness levels.

 

In a sport where it's 11 vs 11 if you have two or three drop off in fitness towards the end of a game it exposes you. You can even get fatigue mentally as well leading to poor decisions.

 

No matter how much experience you have you will make mistakes if you tire physically and mentally. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

33 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

I know the answer to the thread question. Wait for it.............. Poor fitness levels.

 

In a sport where it's 11 vs 11 if you have two or three drop off in fitness towards the end of a game it exposes you. You can even get fatigue mentally as well leading to poor decisions.

 

No matter how much experience you have you will make mistakes if you tire physically and mentally. 

Correct decision making at speed under pressure is what separates the top players from the also rans. Tiredness has a bearing on that but at the end of the day the smarter players make less mistakes. Having structures in place were players know what to do in certain circumstances helps. Like Lenihan shouldn't be bombing out of the centre of defence. Raya ditto, leave it to Bennett. If Raya stays at home Bennett wouldn't be caught in two minds like he was yesterday.

[had.e.nuff]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

Assuming Leeds hadn't conceded any in the last 15 minutes of course!

no because if we had held out we would have beat leeds so they would have had 3 points less

[SBlue]

3 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

no because if we had held out we would have beat leeds so they would have had 3 points less

It would’ve been a draw - we scored in the 89th