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I think Tony will try Dack initially in a 433 as a false nine with Armstrong on the left and Dolan on the right. He'll be keen to keep the improved performances 433 seems to have brought out of Johnson, Rothwell, Holtby and the team generally.

If 433 doesn't work for Dack I am sure we will then iterate a bit to find something that does work. I can't see Dack playing wide personally - he's far more a goal scorer than a winger. Probably a move to 4231 or 4411 could be on the cards. But we could end up in a position where what we gain from Dack we lose from others.

It is interesting, that someone else posted, losing Dack did not really impact our results much last year. There could be an argument for dropping Dack if we are playing better without him.

It's certainly true that in terms of players important to Rovers Dack is probably on number 4 (1. Armstrong, 2. Lenihan, 3. Kaminski). 

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1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

I think Tony will try Dack initially in a 433 as a false nine with Armstrong on the left and Dolan on the right. He'll be keen to keep the improved performances 433 seems to have brought out of Johnson, Rothwell, Holtby and the team generally.

If 433 doesn't work for Dack I am sure we will then iterate a bit to find something that does work. I can't see Dack playing wide personally - he's far more a goal scorer than a winger. Probably a move to 4231 or 4411 could be on the cards. But we could end up in a position where what we gain from Dack we lose from others.

It is interesting, that someone else posted, losing Dack did not really impact our results much last year. There could be an argument for dropping Dack if we are playing better without him.

It's certainly true that in terms of players important to Rovers Dack is probably on number 4 (1. Armstrong, 2. Lenihan, 3. Kaminski). 

The main reason why Dack's goal input wasnt missed in terms of points was that Armstrong started scoring goals at a similar rate, but I dont think that there is a reason why both cant score regularly together. Also of course, we picked up more points during that time with our defence looking stronger with Adarabioyo next to Lenihan too.

They have never really played together centrally and ultimately Dack has never played within a team that is trying to play football. I have seen suggestions that he wont be as effective without Graham but Dack is technically very good, he can press and obviously he can finish, if anything playing more on the ground might suit him.

Obviously if there is no scope to move away from the 4-3-3, then there might be an element of compromise in terms of the positions of our main 2 attackers, but I think Dack's importance and quality is on par with Armstrong and its easy to forget how good he is. Ultimately it makes sense to do all we can to get them 2 working in the same team because compared to all of our other attackers, Brereton, Gallagher, Chapman, Rankin Costello, Dolan, Rothwell etc, those 2 are in a league of their own, they are not only far more productive than them but they are more productive than the majority of attackers in the league.

I think 4-2-3-1 will probably be best just because you have to play to suit your best players. But if we kept the 4-3-3, the options are Dack wide which for me should be instantly discarded. Armstrong from the left and Dack as a false 9, sceptical about that, I think Armstrong could potentially still be very effective and wouldnt have much defensive responsibility in that system. Or you could try Dack where Rothwell played last time, Dack is obviously far more productive than Rothwell although the main fear would be that he would be too deep.

I think its a bit of a myth that we are playing better without him, the results dont suggest we are but we have to move heaven and earth to build the team to get both Armstrong and Dack together.

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22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The main reason why Dack's goal input wasnt missed in terms of points was that Armstrong started scoring goals at a similar rate, but I dont think that there is a reason why both cant score regularly together. Also of course, we picked up more points during that time with our defence looking stronger with Adarabioyo next to Lenihan too.

They have never really played together centrally and ultimately Dack has never played within a team that is trying to play football. I have seen suggestions that he wont be as effective without Graham but Dack is technically very good, he can press and obviously he can finish, if anything playing more on the ground might suit him.

Obviously if there is no scope to move away from the 4-3-3, then there might be an element of compromise in terms of the positions of our main 2 attackers, but I think Dack's importance and quality is on par with Armstrong and its easy to forget how good he is. Ultimately it makes sense to do all we can to get them 2 working in the same team because compared to all of our other attackers, Brereton, Gallagher, Chapman, Rankin Costello, Dolan, Rothwell etc, those 2 are in a league of their own, they are not only far more productive than them but they are more productive than the majority of attackers in the league.

I think 4-2-3-1 will probably be best just because you have to play to suit your best players. But if we kept the 4-3-3, the options are Dack wide which for me should be instantly discarded. Armstrong from the left and Dack as a false 9, sceptical about that, I think Armstrong could potentially still be very effective and wouldnt have much defensive responsibility in that system. Or you could try Dack where Rothwell played last time, Dack is obviously far more productive than Rothwell although the main fear would be that he would be too deep.

I think its a bit of a myth that we are playing better without him, the results dont suggest we are but we have to move heaven and earth to build the team to get both Armstrong and Dack together.

In the position that Rothwell and Travis have been playing it requires incredible workrate to get up and down. Just not sure Dack has that, plus the issue that he is a long way from the goal. Just can't see the sense in it.

Dack spearheading a 433 has to be worth a go imo. Armstrong has hardly been playing that role like a target man - he's been facing goal and moving around finding space. I think it could work. Dolan, Armstrong and Dack is a fearsome front line if we can get it operable.

Edited by joey_big_nose

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Just now, joey_big_nose said:

In the position that Rothwell and Travis have been playing it requires incredible workrate to get up and down. Just not sure Dack has that, plus the issue that he is a long way from the goal. Just can't see the sense in it.

Dack spearheading a 433 has to be worth a go imo. It's hardly like Armstrong has been playing that role like a target man - he's been facing goal and moving around finding space. I think it could work. Dolan, Armstrong and Dack is a fearsome front line if we can get it operable.

Yeah I would have huge reservations about Dack being too deep in terms of offering his goal threat. I dont have particular reservations about his work rate and I think he suits the press and has the technical ability but the closer he is to goal, the better.

I can see the potential benefit of playing Dack central and Armstrong left. Armstrong wouldnt be wide as he was in a 4-2-3-1, he would be much closer to goal and because of the third midfielder, he wouldnt have much defensive responsibility. Also Dack (who is a better poacher than Armstrong) would naturally move and would seldom go in behind which would constantly leave space for Armstrong to run in instead from that left side which he does anyway. Armstrong would I think enjoy the added quality Dack brings too, and vice versa. That being said, it potentially has both players slightly compromised especially as Dack as a false 9 didnt work last time.

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4 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

I think Tony will try Dack initially in a 433 as a false nine with Armstrong on the left and Dolan on the right. He'll be keen to keep the improved performances 433 seems to have brought out of Johnson, Rothwell, Holtby and the team generally.

If 433 doesn't work for Dack I am sure we will then iterate a bit to find something that does work. I can't see Dack playing wide personally - he's far more a goal scorer than a winger. Probably a move to 4231 or 4411 could be on the cards. But we could end up in a position where what we gain from Dack we lose from others.

It is interesting, that someone else posted, losing Dack did not really impact our results much last year. There could be an argument for dropping Dack if we are playing better without him.

It's certainly true that in terms of players important to Rovers Dack is probably on number 4 (1. Armstrong, 2. Lenihan, 3. Kaminski). 

Its the old gerrard lampard scholes debate again. It’s a difficult question and one that not only needs asking but answering. I think we have to get dack back in as soon as he is fit. How and where I don’t know depending on the teams performance before he returns. I do think like the old England debate it’s important to play the best team not the best players . I suppose we need to get dack fit and see how the sytem works with him in it and take it from there  with my main point in mind

Edited by Oldgregg86

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Dack would work in the Rothwell role imo. We can see his effectiveness in bursting forward and playing the final ball, as well as finishing, but we also know he can keep the ball. I'd propose a flexible 433/4231 with Dack in the thick of it:

                   Kaminski

Nyambe Lenihan Ayala JRC (bear with me)

      Johnson Dack Holtby

  Dolan  Armstrong  Chapman

When attacking, either fullback can support the midfield.

When defending, we have 3 players pacey enough to get back AND capable of bursting on a counterattack.

Scope is there to change where needed to a more direct 442 by replacing either winger with Gallagher.

Edited by Mike E

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Yesterdays goal was the touch of a player who is at the top of his form. It looked easy because he made it look easy. How many time have you seen chances like that go over the bar or hit the goalie ? Never a moments doubt where that pass was going to end up.

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11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yesterdays goal was the touch of a player who is at the top of his form. It looked easy because he made it look easy. How many time have you seen chances like that go over the bar or hit the goalie ? Never a moments doubt where that pass was going to end up.

With his weaker left foot too!!

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Blummin ‘eck Hoochie! Feared the worst there with the thread being bumped this week...

 

Edited by Mattyblue

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