Ben Brereton Diaz

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

That’s the going wage for a top championship player, keep up. Without even mentioning Tax/Ni.

Who are these strikers that fit into that profile then Blueboy? 

What about someone who can get into a mid-table Championship side? How much are they on?

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, Biz said:

Final say on this, signing young/highly rated/potential players is a reason to be excited about the future for me,  NOT a reason to criticise the manager, the directors, the overall direction of the club, or Ben himself.

Sigh. We've just paid £7m for a young lad. Unless FFP rules have been relaxed and Venky's are embarking on a promotion push and charging it to their own account and not to BRFC then it's fine. Have these things happened because if they haven't we now owe Venky's a few million more for someone who can't get in the team. That's not that exciting really is it and it's certainly not good for the 'direction' of the club. It's all a bit Portugeezers. 

[JBiz]

9 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Sigh. We've just paid £7m for a young lad. Unless FFP rules have been relaxed and Venky's are embarking on a promotion push and charging it to their own account and not to BRFC then it's fine. Have these things happened because if they haven't we now owe Venky's a few million more for someone who can't get in the team. That's not that exciting really is it and it's certainly not good for the 'direction' of the club. It's all a bit Portugeezers. 

You’re talking about a 19 year old lad who has been valued, sought after and represented his country at youth levels. There is no guarantee that he will fulfill that potential mind, but to be so critical after less than half a season - you must have ridiculous expectation levels.

Comparing his signing to a load of unknown free Portuguese players through one agent is a bit of a tangent too.

Now, you said there are plenty of options for this level at that rate - now you’re moving goal posts to further debt and FFP...

[Bbrovers2288]

Il just say simply i expected more from brereton, came with a lot of hype and champ experience, I thought he would be starting games by now and chipping in with a few goals. Yes he hasn’t played much and out of position but until mowbray gives us an answer to that other than a vague he is one for potential than we as fans have every right to be a bit bamboozled by the whole deal. Had he been say just a loan like Palmer or under a mill like samuel yes he probably would be judged less but sadly that transfer fee deserves more results. For instance you can’t tell me that we wouldn’t be better off signing Edwards, Maddison and Toney, three players I imagine you could fit into that one deal. Potentially brereton is worth a catastrophic fee if he starts firing but it’s a huge gamble I didn’t think we should’ve been making.

as a side note I really wish he would play Rodwell in midfield instead of defence, 100% upgrade on Smallwood and I don’t really like Rodwell in defence for the same reason as lenihan- rashness and always prone to a pen 

[Oldgregg86]

Can we just remember Jason Lowe captained the England u21s. Many players have played at that level never to be seen again. The fact brereton is an England u20 player means nothing to me. The disappointing aspect for me comes off one game I saw him dominate an arsenal defense in the cup and the reputation he came with from Nottingham forest fans who where sad to see him go. If we ignore the fee and the fact he's one for the future and base his performances on what we have heard and what we have actually seen you would think it was two completely different players. His age and the number of games he has played shouldn't be something to hide behind. If mowbray wants to bring him off the bench that's his perogative but imo he should be doing far more to make Tony's selections far harder, the way rothwells cameos do because at the minute he has shown very little that he is half the player forest fans raved about. I expect more from a young lad trying to make his way in the game. Being able to control the ball would be a good start. It's to early to write him off but he doesn't look like he has any stand out quality to even utter the words potential. Surly by now even off the bench we would have seen a glimmer of something to suggest he just needs games. To settle in, a goal to get the monkey off his back. I'm struggling to find any positives from this deal other than he is 19

[DeeCee]

Hope BB has signed in to TMs vision/plans. If I was Rodwell I'd be thinking WTF am I doing here?

[JBiz]

39 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Edwards, Maddison and Toney, three players I imagine you could fit into that one deal.

Have to disagree. Even if you could get all three for half the 7m, that’s three sets of wages to fit into our wage budget all with necessary taxes! 

Would agree 1 less expensive/risky lower division addition to play a similar part from the bench would be more frugal - however I would suggest the fee gives more chance of reaching that potential.

I am personally mystified by the readiness to suggest this lads a fraud by quite a few posters.

 We’re all welcome to our own view about him and mine will not be formed before he’s even made a start in the league.

[blueboy3333]

59 minutes ago, Biz said:

now you’re moving goal posts to further debt and FFP...

I'm responding to a specific point  that you raised that you hadn't raised before....namely that spending £7m on BB means we can all get excited about the future. Agreed if he was banging them in but he's not because he can't get in the team. Shades of the Portugeezers, just a lot, lot, lot more expensive.  

[DeeCee]

That's true, no ones seen him play a match, why?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

I am personally mystified by the readiness to suggest this lads a fraud by quite a few posters.

Can you quote them?

[JBiz]

24 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I'm responding to a specific point  that you raised that you hadn't raised before....namely that spending £7m on BB means we can all get excited about the future. Agreed if he was banging them in but he's not because he can't get in the team. Shades of the Portugeezers, just a lot, lot, lot more expensive.  

You think those lads + Nuno Gomes cost less than 7m total? Think again. 

Comparing to those deals is basically saying it’s crooked. All because he isn’t better than Danny Graham yet...

23 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Can you quote them?

Just read the thread. 78 pages.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Biz

[Bbrovers2288]

38 minutes ago, Biz said:

Have to disagree. Even if you could get all three for half the 7m, that’s three sets of wages to fit into our wage budget all with necessary taxes! 

Would agree 1 less expensive/risky lower division addition to play a similar part from the bench would be more frugal - however I would suggest the fee gives more chance of reaching that potential.

I am personally mystified by the readiness to suggest this lads a fraud by quite a few posters.

 We’re all welcome to our own view about him and mine will not be formed before he’s even made a start in the league.

My point was the fee, speculating about wages is another topic but the way they have been throwing new contracts about I don’t think that’s currently a major concern, and also we were prepared to pay another fee for freeman that we didn’t get

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

My point was the fee, speculating about wages is another topic but the way they have been throwing new contracts about I don’t think that’s currently a major concern, and also we were prepared to pay another fee for freeman that we didn’t get

As I said previously - the quote from Waggott about “flexing” budget between fee/wage explains spending more on a fee for a younger less established player.

I don’t think wages are too much to worry about either, in terms of room to manoeuvre in January or next summer, but I do think the gap is widening between the top few and the rest.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

You’re talking about a 19 year old lad who has been valued, sought after and represented his country at youth levels. There is no guarantee that he will fulfill that potential mind, but to be so critical after less than half a season - you must have ridiculous expectation levels.

Comparing his signing to a load of unknown free Portuguese players through one agent is a bit of a tangent too.

Now, you said there are plenty of options for this level at that rate - now you’re moving goal posts to further debt and FFP...

Who's "sought after" him apart from us? We look the bunnies tbh.?

[tomphil]

11 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Can we just remember Jason Lowe captained the England u21s. Many players have played at that level never to be seen again. The fact brereton is an England u20 player means nothing to me. The disappointing aspect for me comes off one game I saw him dominate an arsenal defense in the cup and the reputation he came with from Nottingham forest fans who where sad to see him go. If we ignore the fee and the fact he's one for the future and base his performances on what we have heard and what we have actually seen you would think it was two completely different players. His age and the number of games he has played shouldn't be something to hide behind. If mowbray wants to bring him off the bench that's his perogative but imo he should be doing far more to make Tony's selections far harder, the way rothwells cameos do because at the minute he has shown very little that he is half the player forest fans raved about. I expect more from a young lad trying to make his way in the game. Being able to control the ball would be a good start. It's to early to write him off but he doesn't look like he has any stand out quality to even utter the words potential. Surly by now even off the bench we would have seen a glimmer of something to suggest he just needs games. To settle in, a goal to get the monkey off his back. I'm struggling to find any positives from this deal other than he is 19

I reckon this lad might have gone from about 3 grand pwk at Forest to c10k pwk here on a four year deal is it ?  plus whatever from the fee.  When you don't want to move but you are 19 that kind of thing can swing it it can also take the edge of the desire/development we've seen it countless times. That's a football problem it's not a Rovers problem although we've certainly suffered from it a lot under this ownership.

I really think this was some kind of knee jerk signing with a bit of over selling whispering in ears thrown in with the words big quick future profit mentioned a lot  hence the way he's being used. Funny how our own good youth players or one or two of TMs more lively summer recruitments aren't afforded the same privilege as this lad with guaranteed mins every game despite offering sod all back, why don't we develop them in the same fashion ?

[Oldgregg86]

42 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I reckon this lad might have gone from about 3 grand pwk at Forest to c10k pwk here on a four year deal is it ?  plus whatever from the fee.  When you don't want to move but you are 19 that kind of thing can swing it it can also take the edge of the desire/development we've seen it countless times. That's a football problem it's not a Rovers problem although we've certainly suffered from it a lot under this ownership.

I really think this was some kind of knee jerk signing with a bit of over selling whispering in ears thrown in with the words big quick future profit mentioned a lot  hence the way he's being used. Funny how our own good youth players or one or two of TMs more lively summer recruitments aren't afforded the same privilege as this lad with guaranteed mins every game despite offering sod all back, why don't we develop them in the same fashion ?

You would have to ask Travis and wharton that. Two players who when I have seen them play first team football had that potential I'm failing to see when Ben plays. Even butterworths 20 minute cameo against Lincoln had more energy, desire and dribbling ability than I have seen ben provide. I wont write him off, purly from what I saw him do against arsenal where he was brilliant but he really needs to kick on now , even from the bench. I just hope financial security hasn't taken his hunger away. Maybe I am being overly critical but I expected far more from a lad who had so many plaudits when he arrived. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Oldgregg86

[Bigdoggsteel]

Hopefully Mowbray is using his loan spell as a "bedding in period" and more will be expected of him once he joins permanently 

[roversfan99]

The loan spell is a technicality and nothing more. The only reason he is on loan was to allow the deal to go through outside the transfer window, but he signed on a permanent deal straight away for all intents and purposes. It would make no sense to consider the period in which he was on loan as any different from when his permanent contract commences.

Im not saying there shouldnt be an element of bedding in, just that the fact that hes technically on loan initially shouldnt make a blind bit of difference.

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The loan spell is a technicality and nothing more. The only reason he is on loan was to allow the deal to go through outside the transfer window, but he signed on a permanent deal straight away for all intents and purposes. It would make no sense to consider the period in which he was on loan as any different from when his permanent contract commences.

Im not saying there shouldnt be an element of bedding in, just that the fact that hes technically on loan initially shouldnt make a blind bit of difference.

I am sure it makes a difference. Even psychologically with the player. Being on loan or signing permanently are different, where the deal is concrete in January or not. 

Either way, the months between summer and January would have been enough to allow him to bed in. I would be expecting him to feature more after Christmas. 

[ben_the_beast]

Watched some Christmas interview with Dacky and Danny Graham earlier. Brereton was the butt of a lot of their jokes. He's clearly well liked. Which in my opinion is a bad thing. 

Years gone by you'd hear about young players being quiet as a mouse in the dressing room until they matured a bit. There's all this 'banter' and 'team spirit' and I think he's in his comfort zone being well liked by 'the lads'. I'd far rather he was coming into work everyday trying to prove himself and earning that respect and acceptance. From all I've read players like him and Adam Armstrong who should be doing all they can to win their places come into training, have great bants then go home and play this fortnight game together online for literally hours on end. It's not healthy, they need to focus on their careers, maturing and making an impact instead. 

Rant over. Reading this back for the first time in my life I feel old

Edited December 22, 2018 by ben_the_beast

[47er]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I am sure it makes a difference. Even psychologically with the player. Being on loan or signing permanently are different, where the deal is concrete in January or not. 

Either way, the months between summer and January would have been enough to allow him to bed in. I would be expecting him to feature more after Christmas. 

I'm not at all sure what your point is here. Reed doesn't seem to find being here on loan a problem and he isn't becoming a permanent signing in January!

The difference between them is simple----- Reed is actually a terrific player.

[Exiled in Toronto]

14 minutes ago, 47er said:

I'm not at all sure what your point is here. Reed doesn't seem to find being here on loan a problem and he isn't becoming a permanent signing in January!

The difference between them is simple----- Reed is actually a terrific player.

He is indeed, but then he’s 24 next month. I wonder how good he was at 19 and if he would have been in our team or on the bench? 

[47er]

Yes but would we have paid 7M for him? The implication of paying such a big fee for a 19 year old is that he's really special as plenty of other 19 year olds have been.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

On ‎20‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 21:03, Biz said:

You think those lads + Nuno Gomes cost less than 7m total? Think again. 

Comparing to those deals is basically saying it’s crooked. All because he isn’t better than Danny Graham yet...

Just read the thread. 78 pages.

It's not just is he better than Danny Graham. People are asking is he better than Nuttall.

[JacknOry]

54 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Watched some Christmas interview with Dacky and Danny Graham earlier. Brereton was the butt of a lot of their jokes. He's clearly well liked. Which in my opinion is a bad thing. 

Years gone by you'd hear about young players being quiet as a mouse in the dressing room until they matured a bit. There's all this 'banter' and 'team spirit' and I think he's in his comfort zone being well liked by 'the lads'. I'd far rather he was coming into work everyday trying to prove himself and earning that respect and acceptance. From all I've read players like him and Adam Armstrong who should be doing all they can to win their places come into training, have great bants then go home and play this fortnight game together online for literally hours on end. It's not healthy, they need to focus on their careers, maturing and making an impact instead. 

Rant over. Reading this back for the first time in my life I feel old

Would rather they were at home in their spare time playing Fortnite than out drinking tbh. Playing games is not something just young kids do anymore and what else would you expect them to be doing? They have been to training and I am pretty sure they are told to rest up and relax.