Ben Brereton Diaz

[darrenrover]

48 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Overall the signing does look odd at this point. 7 million on a striker that Mowbray won't play as a striker. Simply if he was going to play him on the wing, why not just sign a winger?

With Candlin going back and Hart out the door too, I just wonder do we have a youth scout picking these lads? 

Stuart Harvey - 'Head of player recruitment'.

[stinny1]

Was he a Mowbray signing ?  His Tony using up the good will he earned from last season  the team shape last night was poor Blackburn Rovers are a 4,4,2 side with wingers not a 3 at the back team . I'm sick of the rotation of the squad  and his love in with  Smallwood  if  Travis his benched for him  Mowbray needs sacking.  Needed big strong center half a left back with pace and a winger with pace over too you Tony crack on

[Torgeir]

Thought last night he had his best game so far in a Rovers shirt, but that's saying something. Needs the support of his manager, the fans and his teammates to get going. Hopefully he can add a bit of muscle and his decision making needs to improve - right now he looks like a young 5 a-side player playing among the pros. Don't think he'll get double figures for us anytime soon.

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, Tom Stinny said:

Anyone saying sell Brereton needs to get real. Do you really think Venkys will take a 5+ million hit on one player? 

If he end up seeing his contract out then they will take a damn sight more than a £5 Million hit. He's hopeless and isn't good enough to make it here, the only way he might make it here is if we get relegated. Which might well happen if we continue to sign players of his standard. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, Mercer said:

A big, big problem.

Mowbray should take responsibility on this whether it was his signing or not.

Firstly, if Brereton was Mowbray's decision, I think it raises serious question marks against his judgement on both individual players and the needs of the team (there are so many obvious areas where we need some quality).

Secondly, if Mowbray was not part of the decision to sign Brereton then perhaps he is not the principled man some would like us to believe.  No manager worth his salt would stand for such interference in team affairs.

I don't think sending out a £7million+ acquisition on loan is the answer.  If the lad had shown us at least a glimmer then it might be worthwhile but, IMV, he's shown us nothing and is lacking in so many areas.  I think damage limitation would be selling the lad for as much as we can as quickly as we can - and we would need to be prepared to write-off millions. 

The only problem with that is why would anyone who's scouted him actually pay us a fee. I think a loan away from the club is the only answer.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

What attributes does he have to suggest he is going to be a good striker though? He's weak, he doesn't head the ball, he's got no pace or skill to beat a man, he's doesn't work hard and he doesn't appear to be a natural finisher as was shown tonight when he was what 6-7 yards from goal and put in out for a throw in. He's shown nothing not even a glimpse of potential.

Their guy put one into the top corner from a similar position.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 hours ago, Trinidad Rover said:

At least Grabbi looked like he had something and got a goal or two. Compared technically to Brereton so far Grabbi looks like Messi.

Brereton needs to go out on loan ASAP but I can't see him becoming a championship level forward. At 19 he may be 'raw' and have potential but as other posters have seen, there haven't been any flashes/moments of ability. 

 

 

 

Grabbi was light years better. I remember him scoring a goal against Everton. He came inside from the old inside left position, dipped his shoulder, took two defenders out of the game and side footed the ball into the far corner cool as you like. Easy peasy. 

Very much like Armstrong's goal at Millwall.

[tomphil]

Grabbi clearly had ability but his head and heart never seemed in it and ironically he was a wide striker struggling when stuck in a front two after probably being used to a three.

 

[JHRover]

Brereton hasn't cost £7 million and the way things are going never will do. Try £2.5 million and then lots of performance related add-ons.

That's how Venkys like to structure their deals - bonuses down the line spread over a number of years and not a large lump sum downpayment.

Ask yourselves who benefits from this fabricated £7 million price tag - does Mowbray benefit? No, it merely enhances the pressure on him if the signing doesn't come good. Does Brereton benefit from it? No because the spotlight is on him way more than it would be due to his price tag and the expectation on his 19 year old shoulders rises.

No - the only ones who benefit are Venkys as they receive credit from observers who believe they are throwing in more money than they actually are.

However, even at £2.5 million, questions and doubts need to be raised. Even that amount is more than we've spent for a long time and you would have to say at this stage could have been invested better.

But we all know that things aren't normal. I'm not suggesting that Brereton was foisted upon Mowbray from above but I'd also be very surprised if Mowbray had carte blanche over the summer to invest that money as he saw fit. It certainly seems that money only came available at the 11th hour, perhaps unexpectedly, and Mowbray felt he had to act quickly to invest it or it would disappear into the ether along with so many other Venky promises. He also probably had to invest it into someone expected to rocket in value so he could demonstrate success in the market. Given the time constraints and criteria he had to satisfy Brereton was the sort he had to go for but so far it hasn't really worked. Still early days though. As before we could say the same for the majority of Mowbray's signings who for a variety of reasons have failed to establish themselves in the first team, with the majority being established pro's here before him or kids who have come through from our academy.

[Leonard Venkhater]

5 hours ago, 47er said:

How many points would you concede before you abandoned that particular gamble? Nuttall is playing way better, why should he lose his place to Brereton?

Doesn't make sense. He'll have to go to the under-23's, score a shedload of goals and earn a recall before he's given any game time at all for me.

As damning indictments go......

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Brereton hasn't cost £7 million and the way things are going never will do. Try £2.5 million and then lots of performance related add-ons.

That's how Venkys like to structure their deals - bonuses down the line spread over a number of years and not a large lump sum downpayment.

Ask yourselves who benefits from this fabricated £7 million price tag - does Mowbray benefit? No, it merely enhances the pressure on him if the signing doesn't come good. Does Brereton benefit from it? No because the spotlight is on him way more than it would be due to his price tag and the expectation on his 19 year old shoulders rises.

No - the only ones who benefit are Venkys as they receive credit from observers who believe they are throwing in more money than they actually are.

However, even at £2.5 million, questions and doubts need to be raised. Even that amount is more than we've spent for a long time and you would have to say at this stage could have been invested better.

But we all know that things aren't normal. I'm not suggesting that Brereton was foisted upon Mowbray from above but I'd also be very surprised if Mowbray had carte blanche over the summer to invest that money as he saw fit. It certainly seems that money only came available at the 11th hour, perhaps unexpectedly, and Mowbray felt he had to act quickly to invest it or it would disappear into the ether along with so many other Venky promises. He also probably had to invest it into someone expected to rocket in value so he could demonstrate success in the market. Given the time constraints and criteria he had to satisfy Brereton was the sort he had to go for but so far it hasn't really worked. Still early days though. As before we could say the same for the majority of Mowbray's signings who for a variety of reasons have failed to establish themselves in the first team, with the majority being established pro's here before him or kids who have come through from our academy.

Where's your evidence for that statement ? Even at £2.5 million we've been had over. As " Black Bart " the outlaw once said - " Some men rob with a six-gun, some men rob with a fountain pen ".

[JHRover]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Where's your evidence for that statement ? Even at £2.5 million we've been had over. As " Black Bart " the outlaw once said - " Some men rob with a six-gun, some men rob with a fountain pen ".

Of course I don't have any 'evidence' nor will anyone other than those in possession of the transfer documents but as with all transfers the fee reported in the media is the total amount payable should it reach its maximum level, not the initial amount paid up front. Virtually every transfer deal is structured in instalments with increases dependent on how the player in question performs and the club performs. If we get promoted more will be due, if Brereton becomes an England international more will be due, etc.

Same happened with Rhodes, Reported at £8 million yet the starting point was much lower and I doubt we ever reached the full amount as we didn't get promoted and he didn't play for Scotland enough.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Where's your evidence for that statement ? Even at £2.5 million we've been had over. As " Black Bart " the outlaw once said - " Some men rob with a six-gun, some men rob with a fountain pen ".

Blimey, I thought that was Woody Guthrie about Pretty Boy Floyd

[Peteb2014]

11 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

How many points would you concede before you abandoned that particular gamble? Nuttall is playing way better, why should he lose his place to Brereton?

I don't understand this sudden Nuttall love in he got a goal that went in off his face.  There was one point on Saturday I cant remember who it was passed the ball to him 10 yards away from the touchline and he ran alongside until it had gone out for a throw, if that had been BB he would have been slaughtered for that

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, JHRover said:

Of course I don't have any 'evidence' nor will anyone other than those in possession of the transfer documents but as with all transfers the fee reported in the media is the total amount payable should it reach its maximum level, not the initial amount paid up front. Virtually every transfer deal is structured in instalments with increases dependent on how the player in question performs and the club performs. If we get promoted more will be due, if Brereton becomes an England international more will be due, etc.

Same happened with Rhodes, Reported at £8 million yet the starting point was much lower and I doubt we ever reached the full amount as we didn't get promoted and he didn't play for Scotland enough.

So you're just speculating then ? The fee could have been £2.5 Mill, £3.5 Mill, £4.5 Mill, £7.5 Mill etc etc ? 

[JHRover]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

So you're just speculating then ? The fee could have been £2.5 Mill, £3.5 Mill, £4.5 Mill, £7.5 Mill etc etc ? 

On what I've been told £2.5 million is the amount. I've no reason to doubt that. I believe that is far more likely to be accurate than Venkys ever committing to £7 million up front.

Edited January 16, 2019 by JHRover

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

In what form should Mowbray take responsibility? Would you like an official statement? 

I think one point is what does it say about a manager, if he accepts  "others" choosing players to sign.

Another, perhaps more palatable, is about a manager making a big mistake in the transfer market.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Leonard Venkhater

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, Peteb2014 said:

I don't understand this sudden Nuttall love in he got a goal that went in off his face.  There was one point on Saturday I cant remember who it was passed the ball to him 10 yards away from the touchline and he ran alongside until it had gone out for a throw, if that had been BB he would have been slaughtered for that

Yeah Nuttall is green as grass. Do I think he'll make a championship striker ? No. At least he puts himself about though. At least you know he's playing.

If I was playing at centre half I'd rather play against Big Ben than Nuttall.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[tomphil]

Way I heard it is Forest are guaranteed 7 million over the course of his contract plus add ons if he really becomes something good. Basically if he stays and plays we pay seven million, maybe the only way out of that figure would be if he doesn't make a certain number of appearances which would have to see him get loaned/frozen out. Sell him and we might still be liable for the full amount.

I don't think we are quite at the loaning out or writing off stage yet but it might take a completely different approach to get a tune out of him in the long run.

Anything else to pay is probably just icing and cherries on top if he becomes a top player.

[benhben]

I wouldnt be too worried if he had some raw physical attribute which was promising like great pace or strength, around which his technique could be moulded. What Ive seen so far is a young player with no standout ability or physical features. I cant see what part of his game can be built on to be a better player. 

He looks slow, skinny and weak to me without much technical ability. Hopefully his lack of performance is more due to a crisis in confidence which some time in the U23s would benefit.

Nuttall, whilst being limited in ability looks stronger, faster and more of a useful player at this point. 

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I think one point is what does it say about a manager, if he accepts  "others" choosing players to sign.

Another, perhaps more palatable, is about a manager making a big mistake in the transfer market.

We don't know either way though, do we? 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

We don't know either way though, do we? 

Either way, it is far from good. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Either way, it is far from good. 

Plenty of managers don't sign the players. Preferably they should I think. I would imagine Mowbray has final say here though.  The signing does look odd at this point. Hopefully that changes. 

I think some fans on social media are being nasty pricks though with some of the comments they are making on Breretons Instagram and also on official club tweets about him. Can't be good for a young lads confidence to read them. At the end of the day, he didn't choose his transfer fee. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[roversfan99]

13 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Or we could give him a run of games in his favoured position before writing him off completely.

Brereton makes a mess of something on the wing tonight and the crowd goes "Brereton you're ****!"

Graham comes over to the wing at one point, makes a mess of something in much the same way as BB and the crowd go "Unlucky Danny, go on lad!"

Not saying the crowd have got on BB's back unduly but the point is neither are wide men and DG would probably look ust as bad if not worse if he was being played out of position out wide. 

 

Your obsession with demeaning Graham is affecting your view.

He certainly doesnt warrant us giving him a run in his favourite position. You look at Graham, he is strong, he is a good finisher with a record of scoring goals, he is intelligent especialy in terms of his hold up, hes good in the air. You seem quick to discard his contribution even last night but even if he hadnt have done anything else (he did, with plenty of direct balls lobbed up to him again) his contribution was key solely with his excellent hold up and pass for Armstrongs goal, and he almost replicated the feat (via Conway) if only Dack had put away that chance in extra time.

Armstrong and Nuttall (never a wide man though!) have also shown far more to suggest that even if Graham is unavailable, they should be ahead of Brereton in the pecking order.

And Brereton went off to a solely positive reaction which no one has mentioned, clapped off, no one was hurling rotten tomatoes at him as you may expect reading how people think hes been treated.

I heard Mowbray say about Nuttall that he might need to go out and play first team football where the fans "will be cheering him or booing him" which I thought was right but also applies to Brereton, albeit not that extreme. When any player hits a good chance out for a throw in, puts a 5 yard pass in to touch or steps over the ball when a shot was on, the crowd will naturally groan regardless of the player and you need to have thick enough skin to get through that, but its certainly not abuse.

And @Bigdoggsteel you mention social media, hes not going to see the official club tweets but I agree that a mindless minority of idiots abusing him on Instagram (dont have it myself so havent witnessed it) is out of order and he may be better off removing his account. But believe me, at the ground everyone is willing him on and clapped him off yesterday.

Edited January 16, 2019 by roversfan99

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Your obsession with demeaning Graham is affecting your view.

He certainly doesnt warrant us giving him a run in his favourite position. You look at Graham, he is strong, he is a good finisher with a record of scoring goals, he is intelligent especialy in terms of his hold up, hes good in the air. You seem quick to discard his contribution even last night but even if he hadnt have done anything else (he did, with plenty of direct balls lobbed up to him again) his contribution was key solely with his excellent hold up and pass for Armstrongs goal, and he almost replicated the feat (via Conway) if only Dack had put away that chance in extra time.

And Brereton went off to a solely positive reaction which no one has mentioned, clapped off, no one was hurling rotten tomatoes at him as you may expect reading how people think hes been treated.

I heard Mowbray say about Nuttall that he might need to go out and play first team football where the fans "will be cheering him or booing him" which I thought was right but also applies to Brereton, albeit not that extreme. When any player hits a good chance out for a throw in, puts a 5 yard pass in to touch or steps over the ball when a shot was on, the crowd will naturally groan regardless of the player and you need to have thick enough skin to get through that, but its certainly not abuse.

And @Bigdoggsteel you mention social media, hes not going to see the official club tweets but I agree that a mindless minority of idiots abusing him on Instagram (dont have it myself so havent witnessed it) is out of order and he may be better off removing his account. But believe me, at the ground everyone is willing him on and clapped him off yesterday.

Why won't he see the official club tweets?