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A good player can look rubbish in the wrong system, whereas any player can perform/do a job and thrive if they have the right formation and role. I suspect that is what is happening with Bereton now. 

I'll be honest I think there's a large element of the formation suiting Ben- which neither of the previous formations did - in his upturn in form alongside individual improvement. But that's a good thing given the formation seems to favour the squad we currently have, and many other players benefit from it as well as Ben so long may it continue. 

I worry that the new formation might not suit Dack which leaves an almighty conundrum and a difficult choice. But at least the current set up means we are getting something  from our 12 million presently which given we won't be getting a return from Gally on the wing is even more positive. 

 

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I suspect what’s happened here is as follows... Brereton has performed poorly, again, and been subbed off. A few people have made ironic cheers, maybe the odd couple have booed, and a few people

Exciting times  

I too would like to see them both under a different manager. Preferably at a different club.

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I think (and this isn't BBs fault,) £7m was far too much for a Championship side to pay for potential. Even most Premiership sides would have hesitated at that price. 

If he continues to improve, and possibly plays a key role in promotion we may look back and congratulate TM for his eye for a player - but will still think it was a huge gamble for a mid table Championship club.

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11 hours ago, Blue blood said:

A good player can look rubbish in the wrong system, whereas any player can perform/do a job and thrive if they have the right formation and role. I suspect that is what is happening with Bereton now. 

I'll be honest I think there's a large element of the formation suiting Ben- which neither of the previous formations did - in his upturn in form alongside individual improvement. But that's a good thing given the formation seems to favour the squad we currently have, and many other players benefit from it as well as Ben so long may it continue. 

I worry that the new formation might not suit Dack which leaves an almighty conundrum and a difficult choice. But at least the current set up means we are getting something  from our 12 million presently which given we won't be getting a return from Gally on the wing is even more positive. 

 

He's obviously playing in a role that suits his ability now. Playing on the wing or up front didn't.  I reckon Dack could play a similar role if he's back to his best. He's got everything that Brererton has and more.

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5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He's obviously playing in a role that suits his ability now. Playing on the wing or up front didn't.  I reckon Dack could play a similar role if he's back to his best. He's got everything that Brererton has and more.

Going to a tough call for TM - a lot of players lose an edge in pace following this type of injury and Dack was never really quick anyway. The one thing Dack will give us is the ability to unlock a defence with a bit of skill and goal scoring threat - how we fit him into the current team is a quandary for TM. 

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Just now, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Going to a tough call for TM - a lot of players lose an edge in pace following this type of injury and Dack was never really quick anyway. The one thing Dack will give us is the ability to unlock a defence with a bit of skill and goal scoring threat - how we fit him into the current team is a quandary for TM. 

I think we're quite a way off having to make that decision. I'd be surprised if Dack is ready to start a first team game before Xmas.

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8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think we're quite a way off having to make that decision. I'd be surprised if Dack is ready to start a first team game before Xmas.

I agree about starting matches- but would imagine we will see him coming off the bench (hopefully) before then. Great player to come on to help us unlock a tiring defence ?

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Much more confident about Brereton than I have ever been about Gallagher.

I rewatched highlights of the Watford game and must admit I thought Foster had dropped a clanger letting that one in on Wednesday night's viewing.

But in fact it is an amazing strike by Ben with bend bouncing just in front of the keeper and going through a ball's width gap between diving keeper and post.

I urge everyone to look at the camera angle behind the goal and not go wow!

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I was just looking at this page on the BBC website for top assisters in the Championship.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/championship/top-scorers/assists

It's only got Brereton as having 2 assists, so must not count the penalty he won and the one that hit the post for Dolan to score.

His other stats make for pretty impressive reading though.

It suggests he's created 12 chances - only one other player on the list had created more (Buendia at Norwich).

There's only one other player with a higher pass completion rate than him on the list as well.

Harvey Elliot is also doing very well on the list considering he's only played 3 games as well.

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On 26/10/2020 at 08:19, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

I think (and this isn't BBs fault,) £7m was far too much for a Championship side to pay for potential. Even most Premiership sides would have hesitated at that price. 

If he continues to improve, and possibly plays a key role in promotion we may look back and congratulate TM for his eye for a player - but will still think it was a huge gamble for a mid table Championship club.

Not kidding!

what position did we think we were  filling for £7million ?? Serious question . That’s the kind of money you’d pay for a pretty Decent goal return , very likely a central striker .Safe to say that ain’t happening .. ......ever. 
So when we bought him what did we have in mind?

There can’t be an answer that justifies it so ergo a waste of a lot of money . 
Then we move on to Gallagher - hells bloody bells. 
Somebody at that Club should have been relieved of their post for such crass misjudgements and reckless squandering of much needed cash. All this carried out in the ‘defenders are coming ‘ era.

They are  decisions which you can’t get away with in any other occupation. 
 Not much more to say really. £12million spent neither problem solved .

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8 hours ago, Stuart said:

This thread suddenly got awfully quiet!

He requires some shooting practice, that’s for sure. Quite a few tame daisy cutters along the floor.

definitely improving though, credit to him.

gallagher on the other hand...god knows what Mowbray is trying to achieve by putting him on the right. ?‍♂️

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8 hours ago, TBTF said:

Not kidding!

what position did we think we were  filling for £7million ?? Serious question . That’s the kind of money you’d pay for a pretty Decent goal return , very likely a central striker .Safe to say that ain’t happening .. ......ever. 
So when we bought him what did we have in mind?

There can’t be an answer that justifies it so ergo a waste of a lot of money . 
Then we move on to Gallagher - hells bloody bells. 
Somebody at that Club should have been relieved of their post for such crass misjudgements and reckless squandering of much needed cash. All this carried out in the ‘defenders are coming ‘ era.

They are  decisions which you can’t get away with in any other occupation. 
 Not much more to say really. £12million spent neither problem solved .

Spot on.

I’d also add what happens going forward? At what point do we look to “protect our investment” by offering him a new contract? And what criteria would he need to meet to justify one? Is he on low enough wages so as to make it an easy decision? Doesn’t he still have any potential to repay the investment? How much are we likely to recoup? So many questions and having a few decent games against poor teams seems to forgive a lot.

Time now Brereton won’t have many suitors with offers above a couple of million. It’s arguable his development has gone backwards during his time here from where he was at Forest. I’d actually be interested to see how he would do here under a decent manager. He has certainly bulked up, with some psychological help could he be turned into Kevin Davies type target man and become more effective?

The £7m price tag may well come back and bite us a second time.

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14 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

PL days/

Different times. 

At the time £7m was still a lot of money.

The difference was that when it didn’t work it was dealt with.

Managers didn’t (and still don’t) have time to wait for an investment to work out - except if Venkys like them.

Brereton has just about reached the level, still fleetingly, that he should have been at the time he joined.

According to transfermarkt .com Brereton is worth £2.25m in the current climate. That’s not even in the top 100 Championship players. Our £7m has to be paid back on the pitch.

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At least with Ben, I think there is increasing basis for hope that after a quiescent two seasons he is blossoming into something we hoped for.

The deadweight write-off is Sam Gallagher's £5m transfer fee. Wrong position or not, he just doesn't have the basics of reading the game or controlling a football. Hope I am wrong on Sam but he is mid-20s now and at this rate destined to slip out on a free when his contract expires.

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15 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

You can't expect anyone to thrive being continually played out of position. 

I'd expect him to look somewhat like a footballer when he crosses the white line though.

He doesn't use the physical gifts he's been blessed with - but we knew that after his last stint here. 

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Just now, Exiled_Rover said:

I'd expect him to look somewhat like a footballer when he crosses the white line though.

He doesn't use the physical gifts he's been blessed with - but we knew that after his last stint here. 

He does when he's played up front. 12 goals in a Coyle team is a good return. He's been poorly used by Mowbray. 

Any big forward/target man would look shit on the wing. Put Sutton out there, or Santa Cruz. How would they look. The problem isn't Gallagher. 

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40 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He does when he's played up front. 12 goals in a Coyle team is a good return. He's been poorly used by Mowbray. 

Any big forward/target man would look shit on the wing. Put Sutton out there, or Santa Cruz. How would they look. The problem isn't Gallagher. 

"In a Coyle team" actually involves playing in a very attacking side with 2 wide men and 2 forwards, wrecklessly so without any thought of defending.

People often use that season as an example of how he did well under mitigating circumstances but if anything he benefitted from being "in a Coyle side" because it was attacking, and even then his goal record was 1 in 4, so average at best. He also had a really poor spell at Birmingham.

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