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Neal

Attendances

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26 minutes ago, Paul said:

I love this idea, it's one of very few imaginative suggestions I've read in years. How it would work in practice or if it's financially viable for the club is up for discussion but it's a great thought.

It’s an excellent idea.

I’m sure we did something similar 15 years or so ago. Something on the lines of a free ticket if you went to x amount of games.

Or I’ve just made it up, can anybody confirm?

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37 minutes ago, Paul said:

I love this idea, it's one of very few imaginative suggestions I've read in years. How it would work in practice or if it's financially viable for the club is up for discussion but it's a great thought.

 

Present your ticket stubs or receipts for the previous games? The good thing about it is that say you absolutely could not attend and you didn't want to lose your discount privilege then people would be getting tickets for friends and still putting backsides on seats, there's an incentive to keep going back. I take your point about pricing being financially viable but it's also the money handed over the bar too and surely a seat filled at £10 is better than nothing at all?

Edited by Neal

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41 minutes ago, Paul said:

.I don't think we've ever had a cheap offer from The Lowry, Octagon or Exchange theatres to consider some local quality ones

You've been unlucky. We've had late ticket offers at theatres locally. I hate the booking fees etc that they add on too and whenever possible i pick up my tickets to avoid postal charges.

How about cheaper tickets for walk ons the earlier you buy with them only reaching full price on the day? Would that be possible?

And your charities charging higher event entry doesn't work. Yes they charge less if you commit early because they need to know if the event will be worth putting on. Often they have to pay to stage the event somewhere, they need road closures sorted or whatever, so they need early commitment. Rovers know that if one man and his dog turn up, the venue is there, the event will take place. Therefore they should be able to look at their pricing differently. 

Edited by gumboots

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34 minutes ago, Paul said:

I'm only picking out your posts because they include what I feel are common misconceptions which regularly pop up here.

You're right some of us are fortunate enough for £3 not to make a financial difference. However in an area like Blackburn I'd suggest £3 is irrelevant. This is a low wage town with many facing financial hardships. Its not a question of £27 or £30 but can one afford it or not - for many households that £27/30 represents a significant chunk of income, even £10 is a big number.

As for the surcharge I agree it's irritating but is now part of life. Your cinema/theatre examples are selective. From my experience London theatre sells cheaper tickets on the day but prices are already far higher than watching Rovers. Most cinemas have offers at quiet periods not peak times. I don't think we've ever had a cheap offer from The Lowry, Octagon or Exchange theatres to consider some local quality ones.

Trains, planes, hotels, virtually all ticket agencies apply surcharges, theatres and cinenas do so online, car parks are cheaper booked in advance. It's how the market economy works these days and is primarily about getting people to commit early and upfront to attending. The longer the potential customer wants to make a decision on purchase the less likely they are to do so.

Yesterday I took part in a charity cycle event, entry was £15 online or £20 on the day. Last May we joined a local charity walk £7.50 in advance, £15 on the day. Even charities act this way 

To suggest Rovers are disuadding walk ons through this surcharge ignores what happens in most other retail sectors.

The real issue surrounding attendances is affordability for the local fans and the harsh reality is for many local people £27/30 is out of reach surcharged or not. While I remain to be convinced £10 tickets are the answer, either commercially or in terms of attracting people, I think this is the level at which many need it to be pitched to be seen as within reach for many families.

Since relegation from the premier league, match day prices have not really risen. Our season ticket prices have, i think my ticket this year was £50 more than last year, but this is £15 per game.

i totally understand people feel they can’t commit to a season ticket, personally I have only attended 2 games so far... so actually on average have paid over £30 per game. A season ticket is the cheap option, if walk on price was a £10 I would not have a season ticket. I would also have stayed at home for the reading match. Ewood would not be full if the gates were open and no charge.

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I think £10 is too cheap but I think looking at £20 might make it more affordable. It's around that at Sale for the rugby and at Old Trafford for T20 games.

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1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

It’s what West Brom are charging in the Championship this season.

Irrelevant though Matty. All that's relevant is what Rovers find viable.

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A season ticket should never be undercut at seasonal pro-rata rate but everything else should be on the table.

No evidence though that Rovers think there is anything wrong with the pricing.

Must be the fan's fault.

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Difference is we're not West Brom, we've been in a much more dire situation than them for the past 6-7 years and have 1000's of fans to win back and 18,000 seats to fill, the club need to be looking at that issue objectively but it doesn't take a genius to work out the answer is to lower ticket prices.  As I said in my original post, we have to be more radical than merely comparing ourselves to other clubs as value for money, look outside the UK at Bundesliga and what they charge for a better quality product. We can't keep going on as we are, we need some new innovative ideas, starting with season tickets being something like £99... Before people spit their coffee out, to give you some perspective, look at this quote from a Brighton fan on reddit...

 

"For the price of my season ticket at Brighton, admittedly in the most expensive regular section, I could get a VIP ticket at any Bundesliga club.

Alternatively, for a couple of quid more, I could get the cheap season tickets at Bayern, Dortmund, Schalke, Bremen and Leipzig and just tour Germany watching Bundesliga match after Bundesliga match."

Edited by Neal

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To answer Paul.

Is £31 for a ticket on the day in the Jack Walker viable in an area like ours?

A middle ground, surely?

Edited by Mattyblue

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On 28/09/2018 at 18:23, blueboy3333 said:

…. and many also stop going to games when they get to their late teens/early 20's and other things start to take up their limited resources, at a time when Bank of Mum and Dad are no longer buying their ST's. This is why clubs (including tomorrows opponents Forest) are selling a ST for under 23's for £100.

“Following consultation with various fan representatives, it also became apparent that making football more accessible for young supporters was crucial.As a result, the club is delighted to offer significant price decreases for 2018/19 Season Cards for fans from the age of four right through to the age of 23" - David Cook, Chief Commercial Officer at Forest.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/nottingham-forest-reveal-new-season-1262904

So what exactly are our fans representatives doing? Are they not listened to by the club or are they just as out of touch as Waggott and Co and see no reason to push cheaper tickets for younger fans?

For comparison if you're under 24 at Forest you get a ST for £100. At Rovers you pay between £195 and £299 aged 18-21. Over 21 and your paying full price.

In the best stand at Ewood at the age of 22-23 you're paying £499. At Forest it's £100!!!!!!!!!

At Rovers aged 12-17 you pay between £90 and £110. At Forest it's £50.

At Rovers aged 0-11 you pay between £60 and £75. At Forest it's £10. Under 4's are free at Forest I think. 

Above the age of 75 they are also reduced from the usual OAP price. At Rovers that doesn't happen. 

When NFFC can reduce prices by so much (because they have done their research) and they averaged 25K last season with a much bigger fanbase then WTF are Rovers playing at???

 Answers on a postcard to Waggott and Mowbray c/o Ewood Park.

 

Nottingham has double the population we have and a large student population. It makes sense for them to try and attract that age of fan.

As a bit of an example: if we go by our 9600 current ST holders at an average of £350 (I don't know if this is the avg - just a guess) then our ST sales - £3,360,000. If we halved our prices, and let's say this attracts another 3 thousand, so 13600 at £175 = £2,380,000.

We are essentially losing £1million because, as history tells us, that approx 9600 will buy a ST year in year out regardless. You may have the argument that the approx. additional 3000 people will spend more on the bar/facilities but that means an average spend of £15 quid every game pp. Not even taking into account the additional overheads that comes with catering for them.

However, if we argue that there was 3000 walk ons yesterday at £30 pp then you've already made near enough one tenth of that £1 million you'd lose through having them in the ground every game in walk on fees alone and you've still maximised your ST sales. And we have another 22 games in which to capitalise.

It is a sad way of looking at it but the truth is that money talks. The real question would be to evaluate which is more of a concern to the owners: a full ground, atmosphere and a product that "sells" or the bottom line on the accounting sheets. Clubs like Huddersfield, West Brom etc all know that they don't particularly need the additional revenue from high ST sales so rather sell the event, I bet at times at a loss - like some Bundesliga teams do. 

 

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More students in Nottingham so we shouldn’t bother? I would wager we lose a hell of a lot of teenage fans when they reach adult prices and the parents stop buying their ticket.

A bridge between child and adult season ticket prices would be eminently sensible and much better than an empty seat, no?

 

Also, there were 2,700 walk ons on Saturday, take out freebies and concesssions and it will work out nowhere near £30pp.

Edited by Mattyblue

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

More students in Nottingham so we shouldn’t bother? I would wager we lose a hell of a lot of teenage fans when they reach adult prices and the parents stop buying their ticket.

A bridge between prices would be eminently sensible and much better than an empty seat, no?

At what cost? The young lads haven't been coming to Rovers week in week out for years and simply won't do just because we half tickets. It's not an over night process. There's a hundred factors out there to as why they aren't showing - the biggest one being that we are no longer at the level the young generation have been accustomed to.

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I am saying they are coming as kids but stop when they reach adulthood. Speculation on my account, but I bet we all anecdotallly know such young fans.

More and more clubs are offering deals for young adults - indeed we used to. And as for ‘levels they are accustomed to’, we been a lower league and relegation threatened PL club for nearly a decade, good memories these teenagers!

Edited by Mattyblue

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2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

 

 

Also, there were 2,700 walk ons on Saturday, take out freebies and concesssions and it will work out nowhere near £30pp.

It was just a bit of a crude calculation really. Not to be taken as fact in any way but I just wanted to highlight the other side really. There is just as much money to be made from depending on walk ons, however sad it is.

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Just to add, there are other things that can be done to generate revenue to offset the loss of ticket income, say when someone buys a ticket(s) they get a free £5 voucher to be redeemed in the club shop or on their next ticket purchase when spending over £30... Something like that.

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There's 'young people' everywhere. You could equally argue that Nottingham is a far more competitive place to try and entice them in as it is a city with all sorts of forms of entertainment to occupy 'young people' on a Saturday than getting them down to the football. They are also a club that has had no success of any note for 30 years and hasn't even been in the top division for 20 years.

I think Ewood looks appalling on matchdays really. Even under Gary Bowyer, when home gates were barely any bigger than they are at the moment, just having home fans in the Darwen End and BBE Upper made the whole ground feel fuller and a better atmosphere. Looking at the BBE with the upper tier shut and about 3000 in the lower tier is dreadful.

Again, what sort of club responds to a promotion by bumping prices up across the board and shutting a home area down? Rather than set our stall out to increase sales massively it seems to me that a conclusion had been reached before we even started that we were aiming low by closing more areas and aiming to milk existing ticket holders whilst deterring new ones. 17% hike is not a small figure.

The whole thing needs a radical re-think, because the atmosphere and ground on a matchday is tired and poor. For me it needs fresh ideas all around rather than just repeating the same old formula that we've had for 20 years.

The Upper BBE is dead space. That should be promoted as some form of youth zone or something. Not a family stand but somewhere people between 15 and 25 can go for a heavily subsidised rate.

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£3 extra for buying a ticket late is shameful and basically a slimeball practice no matter how you flower it up even from a conceited ivory 'real fans pay anything' tower.

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1 hour ago, Rover_Shaun said:

£3 extra for buying a ticket late is shameful and basically a slimeball practice no matter how you flower it up even from a conceited ivory 'real fans pay anything' tower.

For an evening match that starts at 7.45 pm, how many fans are at the ground by 6 pm ? Especially if you work until 5 or 5.30 pm.

I would say the majority of 'walk ons' for an evening match will have to pay the (post 6 pm) £3.00 extra.

I believe the intention of the hike is to try and get people to the ground early so they spend money there ( food, drink, club shop) rather than go home for tea and turn up just before kick off.  The surcharge also discriminates against fans who travel further and can't possibly make it for 6.00 pm after work.

It would be more honest to advertise the tickets as £31 ( JWU ) with £3.00 discount for early birds.

It is nonsense to compare the surcharge with theatre thickets and other events because they normally have no problem selling out. Rovers have thousands of spare seats each match to try and fill.    

Edited by Crimpshrine

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49 minutes ago, Rover_Shaun said:

£3 extra for buying a ticket late is shameful and basically a slimeball practice no matter how you flower it up even from a conceited ivory 'real fans pay anything' tower.

Totally agree.

I would really like to see Waggott's cost benefit analysis of this practice.

Seems a bit like the thief, breaking into all the cars on a multi- storey car park...wrong on so many levels!

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Our only hope is that somebody from the club,individual(s) with foresight,a good level of pro-active businesses acumen and just plain old common sense takes note of the comments and ideas put forward on this thread by the Fans.

You have had your veiled rant in the Telegraph answered Mr Waggot...listen,digest and take action.

 

Edited by SIMON GARNERS 194

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