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On 02/10/2018 at 10:58, chaddyrovers said:

Meat¬†ūüėé

What sort of meat? Steak, steak and kidney, meat and potato, chicken balti or other?

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3 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

Was there really 14,000 on Ewood last night

 

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

13,200 (officially), but I’ve noticed the papers have printed the Forest crowd figure again in error.

 

2 hours ago, AAK said:

I thought when I looked on BBC it said 14,440.

I was surprised to see 14440 as the crowd v Sheff Utd according to BBC.

Our crowd v Nottm Forest was 14440. Also on Saturday PNE had 14099 v WBA and Bolton had 14096 v Derby C. All very close but we had the biggest.

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Mowbray’s talking about crowds in the LT again, hoping for regular 20,000 gates.

Sounds great, though cloud cuckoo land in this league, though perhaps ask Waggott if he has any plans to get us anywhere close...

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7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Mowbray’s talking about crowds in the LT again, hoping for regular 20,000 gates.

Sounds great, though cloud cuckoo land in this league, though perhaps ask Waggott if he has any plans to get us anywhere close...

Stand closures, price rises, surcharges, database only admission, ticket only admission.

Mowbray is right, it would be lovely if we could get to 20,000 home fans every week.

Going to do very well to almost double our home crowds whilst doing all of the above though. A more sensible target would be 14000-15000 home fans, which I believe is an achievable target but will still require a radical rethink from the club which shows no signs whatsoever of changing its pricing or policies any time soon. The arrival of Steve Waggott has actually seen the opposite occur with more deterrents appearing.

Edited by JHRover

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Yeah it makes you wonder wether clubs actually want people to roll up on Saturday afternoons. Not just Rovers but most clubs. I've got a good pal who's a Sunderland fan. When they play at Rochdale he's coming up to stay with us and the plan is to go to the match. We're both nearer 70 than 60 but we'll both have to go in the away end because of the segregation rules. That's if we can get a ticket. The game is in April next year I think and if Sunderland are up there in the league we'll be lucky to get a ticket. Either that or blag our way into the home main stand.

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The followings Sunderland are taking this season I’d say you have no chance for the away end.

They had 5,000 at Coventry for a midday kick off on Sky. All a novelty for them.

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The farcical policing situation doesn't help.

I've spoken to 2 people already since Saturdays game who said they might go to the Leeds game, but when told it was 12pm kick off and on Sky's red button said they wouldn't bother.

 

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Is there any other club in this country that voluntarily changes their own kick off times, not to aid their own players or supporters in any way, but wholly to suit the away support?

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Bolton, Wigan, Preston regularly tip up whole ends to the away support yet unless i'm mistaken I don't see them jerking the kick off times around. Don't tell me the potential for trouble is any less with their fans and opposition than ours.

I'm told Wigan had 4k at Preston on Sat but i'm not aware it was shifted. Leeds will fill the ends at Bolton and Wigan every time they go I bet yet do they get moved ?

Matches like these should be aimed at getting as money home bods through the door as possible these are the games that get peoples juices flowing and potentially get that urge back.

Edited by tomphil

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3 hours ago, JHRover said:

Stand closures, price rises, surcharges, database only admission, ticket only admission.

Mowbray is right, it would be lovely if we could get to 20,000 home fans every week.

Going to do very well to almost double our home crowds whilst doing all of the above though. A more sensible target would be 14000-15000 home fans, which I believe is an achievable target but will still require a radical rethink from the club which shows no signs whatsoever of changing its pricing or policies any time soon. The arrival of Steve Waggott has actually seen the opposite occur with more deterrents appearing.

I dont believe the subcharge deter many fans from attending. See the quenes at the Forest game. But not every fan cant go to every game so they pick and choose. I think Rovers could have offer a 10 game season ticket where they can choose their games. Would suit someone on shift work. 

Ticket only admission? Yes that is right. So every fan has a seat and know where they sit. I wouldnt want someone sat in my seat after Ive been there for last 4 or 5 years. 

Its time Rovers fans came out and back the team. Season ticket prices are reasonable imo but accept they could have been cheaper for fans if they have been on sale before Oxford game. Maybe they could have done a price for students at university and college. Or for new season ticket holders could have discount on the new shirt. 

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55 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Is there any other club in this country that voluntarily changes their own kick off times, not to aid their own players or supporters in any way, but wholly to suit the away support?

Is there any other club in this country that invites/encourages almost 8000 away fans to turn up? I suppose MK Dons are the only other one but I'd rather not compare our club to theirs.

I mean come on, I understand the financial rewards of large away followings and agree that a large vocal away support improves the atmosphere and can make for a better occasion, but surely we could draw the line at 5000 or 5500? That would still be a bumper gate, decent atmosphere and would put us on a similar footing to the likes of PNE, Bolton, Wigan for away allocations. It would also avoid the need for 12 noon kick offs (if the police really are insisting that happens and it isn't just being done to make life easier for certain people).

As far as I'm aware we're the only club that allows its kick off times to be brought forward purely on the basis of the large away allocation. It's clear to see what Rovers' priorities are here. More interested in maximising the number of away fans in the ground than they are about making the experience a better one for Rovers fans. One or two other fixtures usually kick off early like Millwall v Leeds but they are more to do with security concerns arising from years of crowd trouble. I challenge anyone to provide any evidence of widespread crowd trouble or violence when the away club gets the whole Darwen End.

We welcomed Leeds for several years with a full Darwen End. Seems things changed after a few drunken away fans made a mess in Wetherspoons. What that has to do with anything I'm not sure.

 

Edited by JHRover

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I dont believe the subcharge deter many fans from attending. See the quenes at the Forest game. But not every fan cant go to every game so they pick and choose. I think Rovers could have offer a 10 game season ticket where they can choose their games. Would suit someone on shift work. 

Ticket only admission? Yes that is right. So every fan has a seat and know where they sit. I wouldnt want someone sat in my seat after Ive been there for last 4 or 5 years. 

Its time Rovers fans came out and back the team. Season ticket prices are reasonable imo but accept they could have been cheaper for fans if they have been on sale before Oxford game. Maybe they could have done a price for students at university and college. Or for new season ticket holders could have discount on the new shirt. 

Fair enough, I happen to think it is a deterrent to people who make a late decision. As far as I'm concerned if the surcharge deters 1 fan from attending then it shouldn't exist. We need everyone we can get and aren't in a position to be putting people off or giving people reasons not to come.

Yes there were queues at the Forest game and every other game because there will always be some people willing to pay extra on the day. I don't think I've ever suggested that the surcharge puts everyone off buying on the day, but I've said that those numbers could and probably would be greater if there was no surcharge.

There are ways of allowing admission on matchday without needing to allocate seats. That was effectively the whole point of the Darwen End area - unreserved seating at a lower price than reserved seating - no reason an area of the ground couldn't be the same e.g. Bbe Upper tier.

Season ticket prices are competitive but we're also in a very competitive region for football.

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Just now, JHRover said:

Is there any other club in this country that invites/encourages almost 8000 away fans to turn up? I suppose MK Dons are the only other one but I'd rather not compare our club to theirs.

I mean come on, I understand the financial rewards of large away followings and agree that a large vocal away support improves the atmosphere and can make for a better occasion, but surely we could draw the line at 5000 or 5500? That would still be a bumper gate, decent atmosphere and would put us on a similar footing to the likes of PNE, Bolton, Wigan for away allocations. It would also avoid the need for 12 noon kick offs (if the police really are insisting that happens and it isn't just being done to make life easier for certain people).

As far as I'm aware we're the only club that allows its kick off times to be brought forward purely on the basis of the large away allocation. It's clear to see what Rovers' priorities are here. More interested in maximising the number of away fans in the ground than they are about making the experience a better one for Rovers fans. One or two other fixtures usually kick off early like Millwall v Leeds but they are more to do with security concerns arising from years of crowd trouble. I challenge anyone to provide any evidence of widespread crowd trouble or violence when the away club gets the whole Darwen End.

 

It probably comes down to police costs. When in the Premier League we could pay for extra policing from the Prem money. Now we can't so we have to bow down to police demands.

I'd sell the bottom tier to Leeds at the standard price, and then sell the top tier at £42. Make it clear from day one that the price will increase to cover policing and stewarding costs.

 

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Just now, JHRover said:

Yes there were queues at the Forest game and every other game because there will always be some people willing to pay extra on the day. I don't think I've ever suggested that the surcharge puts everyone off buying on the day, but I've said that those numbers could and probably would be greater if there was no surcharge.

 

I went to the Forest game with two walk-ons who decided that day - mainly because sit was surprisingly sunny and they thought it would be a good day out. That's probably why there were queues.

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I dont believe the subcharge deter many fans from attending. See the quenes at the Forest game. But not every fan cant go to every game so they pick and choose. I think Rovers could have offer a 10 game season ticket where they can choose their games. Would suit someone on shift work. 

Ticket only admission? Yes that is right. So every fan has a seat and know where they sit. I wouldnt want someone sat in my seat after Ive been there for last 4 or 5 years. 

. 

Every one of those in the queue that you saw were paying for tickets ? not just picking them up?

Some sections of the ground could be designated  reserved seating (season tickets)and some sections unreserved. Granted some people would have to be moved and be upset but that does not seem to be a concern of the club currently .

This system is used at Perth Glory in a tiered membership (season tickets)  system,  Gold membership gets you a seat reserved for the season in certain sections of the ground. Silver membership means you can sit anywhere in the Silver sections of the ground. Flexi membership (5 game deal)  and Match to match tickets also go into the silver sections (unreserved seating). Seems to work ok as similar to Rovers actually filling the stadium to capacity rarely happens, only difference is there is no need to hand a quarter of the stadium over to away supporters. Link To membership packages    Link to ground plan

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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think Rovers could have offer a 10 game season ticket where they can choose their games. Would suit someone on shift work. 

Not a great idea. I'd probably buy one and save money on a full ST so I don't have to rush to night games from work or bother with lunchtime/Sunday kick-offs/Sky games.

It's about adding fans who don't go, not turning an ST holder into a 'ten gamer'. 

If there are thousands of pent-up fans on shift work who it would entice then fair enough, but it could possibly end up costing the club.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Mowbray’s talking about crowds in the LT again, hoping for regular 20,000 gates.

Sounds great, though cloud cuckoo land in this league, though perhaps ask Waggott if he has any plans to get us anywhere close...

Function of where we are in the league. If we are challenging top two and give someone a comprehensive going over on TV the 20,000 crowds will be there. 

Less than ten years since our average crowds were over 26,000.

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And we’ve lost 10,000 season ticket holders since, many of whom will never be seen again, especially at this level, which is an enormous amount for a club with our fan base.

Even in the 2001 promotion season when we still had a large chunk of the 90s support to draw from, we only usually topped 20,000 home fans with cheap ticket offers.

It is just not realistic with 9 and a half thousand season ticket holders and ticket prices regularly edging towards £30 that we will pull in those kind of crowds. It will be a slow build to get anywhere close. Over to you Steve.

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59 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

 

Even in the 2001 promotion season when we still had a large chunk of the 90s support to draw from, we only usually topped 20,000 home fans with cheap ticket offers.

Season average 20,740. Half the gates under 20,000 with lows of 16,... against Grimsby and QPR. Only Huddersfield was a cheap ticket offer and that drew almost 30,000.

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As was Sheff Utd, £5. Other 20,000+ crowds had a big away following.

Phil, get real. We were a completely different club in 2001, it’s like comparing apples and pears with that era, just a half dozen years after we were Champions of England and even then we still didn’t have 20,000 home fans turning up each week for a promotion season.

So after the Venky decimating of our support we won’t be getting close to it with the fan base we have left. 

I would love nothing more then to see those numbers, but it just isn’t going to happen in this league. We don’t have the season ticket holders at present or enough fans who will pay the ridiculous match day prices. 

Now if Waggott can get a grip and build up season ticket numbers over time then we might get closer at some point, but it wouldn’t be this season even if we were up there.

Edited by Mattyblue

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9 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Mowbray’s talking about crowds in the LT again, hoping for regular 20,000 gates.

Sounds great, though cloud cuckoo land in this league, though perhaps ask Waggott if he has any plans to get us anywhere close...

If the sides doing well the fans will turn up, it's been the case for as long as I've been going, and despite those Indian rats best efforts it hasnt changed today.

The supports in good shape, improve the product, improve the gates.

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Just now, Gav said:

If the sides doing well the fans will turn up, it's been the case for as long as I've been going, and despite those Indian rats best efforts it hasnt changed today.

The supports in good shape, improve the product, improve the gates.

That is undoubtedly the case, success and attendances will always correlate.

That said, it will never be as cut and dry as that, Mowbray and the players can only do so much. Most of the variables that lie at Waggotts door, he is failing to correctly utilise to increase average attendances at a point of high supporter engagement due to on field success. Season ticket prices, moving kick offs, (both logistically for those with tickets, and creating an unnecessary battle with sky sports for those who dont) ticket surcharges on match days, moving home fans to facilitate away fans etc.

We are obviously working between limits either way, there is a hardcore following whose attendance will remain barring exceptional circumstances. There is also a ceiling, even at the best of times the ground obviously wont be full every week. That said, I think it is fair to suggest that Waggott is either not under an objective of "get fans back through the door as the priority" or he is and he is failing. Season ticket sales not meeting the target are proof to that.

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Of course crowds improve with success on the pitch, there just won’t be 20,000+ Home fans turning up regularly in this league. They never have.

Edited by Mattyblue

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