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Summer Transfer Window 2019

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10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

A common myth. Look at last season. Benrahma, Canos and Watkins at Brentford. Hernandez and Buendia at Norwich. Harrison at Leeds. Barkhuizen at Preston. Murphy, Montero, Barnes and Phillips at WBA. Adomah, Green and El Ghazi at Villa. Wilson, Jozefzoon and Holmes at Derby. Lolley at Forest. Eliasson at Bristol City. James and Dyer at Swansea. Grosicki and Bowen at Hull. Ince and McLean at Stoke. Taylor at Rotherham. Maghoma at Birmingham. Osayi Samuel at QPR. Edwards at Ipswich. Ameobi at Bolton.

One or two of them may be wingers who play on their weaker side and cut in, but wingers are very much still effective. I also think from our current team, Armstrong is 100x more effective on the right playing as a winger than on the left repeatedly coming into traffic.

 

I think you’ve just perfectly corroborated  my point.

Wingers in the truest sense are Ripley and Wilcox, kanchelskis and Giggs (before he was converted). Wingers are quick. Their job it to stay out wide and offer options down the outside of full backs. Right footers play on the right and left footers on the left. They do this because their job in the last third, when they’re not dribbling past full backs is to take one touch out of their feet, open their bodies up and swing in a cross.

Barely any of the other players you have mentioned do a job even close to this now. They are wide attackers who are usually utilised on the opposite side to their preferred foot. Their job is to play creatively in the space between midfield and the oppositions defence in ‘pockets’ and then to make runs between the fullback and cb from an “out to in” perspective. 

Adam Armstrong is not a winger and never has been. Regardless of which side he plays.

So yeah, no one plays with wingers 👍🏼

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Sounds to me like a move agreed or very close to being if Waggott is talking about it like that in the paper.

Nothing to get excited about. Effectively waving goodbye to Conway and replacing him with Downing. Both well past their best, both free agents, don't imagine Downing will be costing much more at his age. I suppose at least he was playing regularly for a team in the top 6 most of last season...

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Downing doesn't send out the right message after all this talk of buying from the continent. 

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Not really the first signing i was hoping for (if it happens)

He'll be here for 1 season and all he will do is take away game time to younger, more long term prospects.

Mowbray seems to like having older players around, i'm guessing he would be looking at Downing to bring his experience to the training ground/dressing room etc.

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Danny Murphy has ruined any faith I’ll ever have in signing older players. I hope Downing (if it happens) restores some faith but the Murphy signing absolutely stank.

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Just been scanning for background on Downing currently

- Boro thought he was finished at 34 but plenty of evidence he was arguably one of their best players in the first half of last season. The Middlesbrough Gazette describe his last season:

 

"He is widely spoken of as still Boro’s most technically gifted player, one who retains and recycles possession and who keeps a cool head under pressure and the one player who sprinkle some top flight quality.

"And as the pressures mounted on Karanka, Downing became a scapegoat for the boss... But he knuckled down, won his place back and was back in the team. And with the arrival of Tony Pulis he was restored as a fixture.

"In many respects Downing is the opposite of a ‘Pulis player’ but the new boss couldn’t praise him highly enough; for his touch, his composure, his workrate and his nous. And while the low key booing went on, he enjoyed an Indian Summer.

"He wasn’t skinning full-backs and crossing from the byline. He dropped deep to collect in midfield to pick out runs further forward.

"He was a polished playmaker who rarely wasted the ball, a neat player with a delicate touch, great vision and incisive distribution."

 

- Downing then got into a disagreement with Pulis and couldn't play part of the second half of last season because of the contract dispute. So he has bust up with Boro's last two Managers.

- Boro are open to giving him a new contract but that is a decision to be taken as and when they get a new manager. That seems to be between Jonathan Woodgate and the Barnsley Manager. Meantime clubs are hovering over several Boro players.

- Downing also attracting serious interest from Gerrard at Rangers and Bruce at Sheffield Wednesday

- So it is a case for Rovers to get him now while Boro are without a boss or forget it.

If he can do a top job for us for one season, we have so many young players coming through, I am fine with that.

As for wingeing about the order in which new signings are made... 

Edited by philipl

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Personally I am hugely disappointed with the potential signing of Downing. It seems like a signing of convenience and within Mowbrays comfort zone but I honestly don't feel he will improve the squad or impact positively on our top six push. He will also come in as one of our best paid players. The length of any deal will be interesting.

I have some close friends who are Middlesbrough supporters and they are surprised by our interest in him.

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15 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Given the fact that Downing played 40 times for a top 6 team last year I'd absolutely take him as a direct replacement for Conway. Not a bad bit of business to start the window if it happens. 

2 goals and 1 assist.

Edited by AllRoverAsia

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9
3 minutes ago, philipl said:

Just been scanning for background on Downing currently

- Boro thought he was finished at 34 but plenty of evidence he was arguably one of their best players in the first half of last season. The Middlesbrough Gazette describe his last season:

 

"He is widely spoken of as still Boro’s most technically gifted player, one who retains and recycles possession and who keeps a cool head under pressure and the one player who sprinkle some top flight quality.

"And as the pressures mounted on Karanka, Downing became a scapegoat for the boss... But he knuckled down, won his place back and was back in the team. And with the arrival of Tony Pulis he was restored as a fixture.

"In many respects Downing is the opposite of a ‘Pulis player’ but the new boss couldn’t praise him highly enough; for his touch, his composure, his workrate and his nous. And while the low key booing went on, he enjoyed an Indian Summer.

"He wasn’t skinning full-backs and crossing from the byline. He dropped deep to collect in midfield to pick out runs further forward.

"He was a polished playmaker who rarely wasted the ball, a neat player with a delicate touch, great vision and incisive distribution."

 

- Downing then got into a disagreement with Pulis and couldn't play part of the second half of last season because of the contract dispute. So he has bust up with Boro's last two Managers.

- Boro are open to giving him a new contract but that is a decision to be taken as and when they get a new manager. That seems to be between Jonathan Woodgate and the Barnsley Manager. Meantime clubs are hovering over several Boro players.

- Downing also attracting serious interest from Gerrard at Rangers and Bruce at Sheffield Wednesday

- So it is a case for Rovers to get him now while Boro are without a boss or forget it.

If he can do a top job for us for one season, we have so many young players coming through, I am fine with that.

As for wingeing about the order in which new signings are made... 

Pulis wanted him gone in January to free-up his 35k pw wage. Downing sat tight, understandably. If he had started just one more game at Boro he got an extension plus a wage increase.

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Grosicki would be a great signing. The missus is polish so I have watched a lot of him. Direct, hard working and honest player. He would fit in well. 

Downing , a bit of experience is good, we need it. I wouldnt be over reacting about it all. The links being drawn to Murphy are silly but not surprising. It will happen with any player we sign over 30. Some posters are like broken records. Then someone above said it goes against our new plans to recruit from Europe. Just please stop being silly. They aren't mutually exclusive. 

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2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I think you’ve just perfectly corroborated  my point.

Wingers in the truest sense are Ripley and Wilcox, kanchelskis and Giggs (before he was converted). Wingers are quick. Their job it to stay out wide and offer options down the outside of full backs. Right footers play on the right and left footers on the left. They do this because their job in the last third, when they’re not dribbling past full backs is to take one touch out of their feet, open their bodies up and swing in a cross.

Barely any of the other players you have mentioned do a job even close to this now. They are wide attackers who are usually utilised on the opposite side to their preferred foot. Their job is to play creatively in the space between midfield and the oppositions defence in ‘pockets’ and then to make runs between the fullback and cb from an “out to in” perspective. 

Adam Armstrong is not a winger and never has been. Regardless of which side he plays.

So yeah, no one plays with wingers 👍🏼

Many of the players I mentioned are pacy wingers who play on their natural side. Whether the tactical requirements of a winger has changed is neither here nor there, many teams play with out and out wingers.

My point about Armstrong was that he is far better on the right than on the left. 

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Pretty disappointing if we sign Downing, but I suppose if he does end up here at least we're signing a wide player to play in a wide position, rather than the usual bringing in a striker to shoehorn onto the flank for reasons only known to the manager.

If Downing was on £35k p/w at Boro then I wonder how much we're offering him? Would he really drop all the way down to £10-15k p/w? You'd think he'd weigh up his options over the course of the summer before coming here, unless we're offering him a very good deal for a player of his age.  

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Can't say for a minute that the Downing link fills me with excitement. Some of the above comments are making me a little more optimistic that this could work out though, sensible wages permitting. 

Links with previous ageing flops are natural, but I think a big difference with Downing is that he won't be expected to be the main man. Murphy and Whittingham were both seen as a class above the leagues they found themselves in, and should dominate at that level, but clearly weren't up to it physically. This becomes all the worse when it turns out  that the rest of the team aren't up to playing the sort of possession based football that they we're brought in for. 

Not saying for a minute that this is going to be a roaring success, but if Downing is brought in for one the three behind the striker, then you'd expect that defenders will be concerned enough about shutting down Dack & Rothwell that Downing would have a bit of room to work with. Might end up being a shrewd move as a Conway replacement with an eye on playing the ball on the deck a lot more. 

Ultimately, we'll be judging the success of the window on getting our defensive issues solved, getting good back up for DG, and probably getting a Reed replacement. So long as we get those bases covered, won't be losing too much sleep over Downing.

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Since his name first cropped up I've thought Downing is pretty much a done deal and we are probably the only club who'll go and pay the wages he's after.  Also when we get linked with these types the deals tend to go through whereas the more exciting ones turn out to be hot air.

As for the stories we heard all similar in regards to Whittingham although Downing does have good pedigree but do we really want whatever room is in the budget being swallowed up 'flex' style on him and Rodwell maybe leaving very little to pay any fees ?

Believe me TM will dress this one up as a marquee signing, i'd much prefer youth investment as frustrating as it can be at times. Downing to me is the type you add to a good squad as the missing piece of the jigsaw maybe, we really aren't at that point. Key areas need the funds pooling for key investment.  This is Mowbray going down easy street again to me.

Edited by tomphil

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I wouldn’t be too against the signing of Downing. I doubt he’d be like the Murphy signing for two reasons:

1) He’ll be on a lot less money.

2) I doubt he will be the main man.

That being said, I completely understand why people would have reservations about the signing. We have been burnt with signings of older players that haven’t worked out.

Edited by K-Hod

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I haven't seen it mentioned , but it seems Downing played centre midfield last season for a good few games  

Can't speak about last year, but he played centre mid most weeks when he was at West Ham under Big Sam. Not sure how this would work in our system, he's not going to be number 10 so can he play as deep as he would need to play centrally? Probably not, but he's certainly more versatile than an out-and-out winger. I'm thinking Big Sam era Pedersen.

 

Just now, DE. said:

Pretty disappointing if we sign Downing, but I suppose if he does end up here at least we're signing a wide player to play in a wide position, rather than the usual bringing in a striker to shoehorn onto the flank for reasons only known to the manager.

If Downing was on £35k p/w at Boro then I wonder how much we're offering him? Would he really drop all the way down to £10-15k p/w? You'd think he'd weigh up his options over the course of the summer before coming here, unless we're offering him a very good deal for a player of his age.  

This is the crux of it for me. If he's a Conway replacement, I'm completely okay with it, even pleased with it. If his wages are as high as 15k a week, suddenly that would put him amongst our higher earners and that would definitely be too much of an outlay for me.

Waggott seems to be putting quite a lot of emphasis on the Mowbray and Venus links, so hopefully that would be more about convincing him with what we have on the football side rather than offering the biggest contract. 

 

Just now, K-Hod said:

I wouldn’t be too against the signing of Downing. I doubt he’d be like the Murphy signing for two reasons:

1) He’ll be on a lot less money.

2) I doubt he will be the main man.

That being said, I completely understand why people would have reservations about the signing.

 

My view in a nutshell 

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I just hope this is one signing that we may come to know as a backup signing, after signing another 3-4 quality first-trainers.

It seems Downing no long plays wide, but in a more central playmaking role.

I sort of wonder if he’s coming in as backup, and as a better quality mentor than Conway to our wingers/wide midfielders?

I’m not against replacing Conway with Downing, but I hope it’s not with a view to starting often (unless he turns out to be good enough).

Edited by Mike E

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Boro fans said he played well last season, but our fans ignore that. Now imagine the Boro fans said he played badly, it would be quoted ad nauseum. 

At the end of the day, if he is good enough to start, so be it, but even if he isn't he brings great experience and can only be a good role model for the young wingers currently here. He's a big upgrade on Conway and I like Conway. He's also an upgrade on Murphy and Whittingham. 

 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Boro fans said he played well last season, but our fans ignore that. Now imagine the Boro fans said he played badly, it would be quoted ad nauseum. 

At the end of the day, if he is good enough to start, so be it, but even if he isn't he brings great experience and can only be a good role model for the young wingers currently here. He's a big upgrade on Conway and I like Conway. He's also an upgrade on Murphy and Whittingham. 

 

I'm fairly certain that's what Cardiff and Fulham fans said about Whittingham and Murphy.

He could turn out as a decent enough signing but we are right to be skeptical based on past signings. 

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