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Summer Transfer Window 2019

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2 hours ago, Neal said:

I would be absolutely all over this. Best signing we could make IMO... 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sportsmole.co.uk/people/fraser-forster/

The problem is we have limited financial resources, and at the moment we do not need a keeper, but we do need a center half with leadership qualities. That is where I would like to see our resources go.

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2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Absolutely.

He will get much better offers elsewhere though.

 

Good shout, theres also Vorm from spurs thats just been released.

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Just now, rigger said:

The problem is we have limited financial resources, and at the moment we do not need a keeper, but we do need a center half with leadership qualities. That is where I would like to see our resources go.

If we've the same budget as last year we should easily be able to improve both positions rather than one or the other. When we start bringing people in for lots of money as projects which eat up most of the budget we will struggle to address the issues.

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He's talking up the young players again now which is no bad thing provided he actually puts faith in them in their real positions on a more consistent basis, let them ride out the bumps instead of hooking them out the team as an excuse to get the fav seniors back in.

I think he's going to go old heads surrounded by young legs reading between the lines but i'd be a bit more comfortable with signing the likes of Downing and playing more youth if it was built on a rock solid foundation. If he doesn't invest what's available properly in that defence he'll soon be on a sticky wicket again imo and no one should be shouted down for moaning about it there's is ample opportunity now to properly strengthen that area.

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2 hours ago, Biz said:

I was being sarcastic. “If that’s all you’ve got” sounded like something the Wolf would say to wind his foe up. AWOOGA

If you don’t want talk football Bruce, and you simply want to start arguments and call people obtuse, don’t @ me.

Ah so because I was skeptical about the fee being as much as 7m, I’m now not allowed to say I’d be happy if the owners put a decent figure in again....

Makes perfect sense that mate, well done.

Plus, using the actual chairman’s words to put into context why his fee was higher is not “arguing vociferously” neither has my opinion changed much. 

Now if you’ve finished with gish gallop, I still hope we spend a good dollop or “nearly 10million” this summer.

@gumboots - I disagree, I’ve seen positive and negative aspects in his play, but the overall feeling I got was he needed more time in a central position, potentially in a 2 upfront.

In the entire season, I remember him having one clear cut opportunity and he scored.

 

Have you asked yourself why in all the minutes he played he only had " one clear cut opportunity " ? I remember that good shooting chance he had against Newcastle that he put out for a throw in.

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3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

This isn’t difficult. BB was 19 when he signed for Rovers. He is an England u17 and 19 international and has won some youth honours. He is very highly rated as a future top level prospect.  He has no real first team pedigree and so was obviously bought for the future. He’s two years younger than Joe Nuttall and Armstrong.

People are SO fixated on the money but when you buy a 19yr old what do you expect?  He will be expected to kick on this season and be the main man the season after.

If there’s no progression then absolutely begin to worry. But I feel the people who are determined to judge him now will end up feeling pretty stupid at some point. If this guy becomes the player they expect in the next two years he will be the one who fires us to promotion, worth anything in the region of £25m+

I don't think this really stacks up. Weve bought Rothwell and Dack who both look like great young prospects. They didn't cost £7m each.

What you seem to be arguing is that to get good young talent you need to spend £7m but we know that isn't the case from players who are in the squad today. 

Want him to do well, but he's got major work to do.

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I still think that the eleven who start on the opening day will be eleven players that we currently have on the books. One or two new lads on the bench, with 2/3 lads that will get nowhere near the bench for the first 6 months.

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3 minutes ago, rigger said:

The problem is we have limited financial resources, and at the moment we do not need a keeper, but we do need a center half with leadership qualities. That is where I would like to see our resources go.

We needed a centre-back with leadership qualities a year ago but, for some reason, paid £7M for a young striker with none.

I think we do need a reliable keeper, maybe Raya is one for the future too.

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Just now, MarkBRFC said:

I still think that the eleven who start on the opening day will be eleven players that we currently have on the books. One or two new lads on the bench, with 2/3 lads that will get nowhere near the bench for the first 6 months.

I think you're probably right there barring unforeseen injuries, even if we sign someone exciting he'll have to wait to get a place. It's the Mowbray way.

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Just now, joey_big_nose said:

I don't think this really stacks up. Weve bought Rothwell and Dack who both look like great young prospects. They didn't cost £7m each.

What you seem to be arguing is that to get good young talent you need to spend £7m but we know that isn't the case from players who are in the squad today. 

Want him to do well, but he's got major work to do.

It doesn't stack up unless he hits the grade in the next season or two but the simple fact is they shelled out there and then under the assumption he was a hot prospect ready to be let loose. 

Soon became apparent he wasn't hence the softly softly approach since then to spare everyone's blushes. 

Big season for BB coming up but he'll be a year older/wiser/stronger and will have a full pre season under his belt here.  But for the money they've shelled out it was a huge gamble and it really doesn't stack up at this moment in time no matter how many times the spinmeisters try and move the goal posts.

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4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

This isn’t difficult. BB was 19 when he signed for Rovers. He is an England u17 and 19 international and has won some youth honours. He is very highly rated as a future top level prospect.  He has no real first team pedigree and so was obviously bought for the future. He’s two years younger than Joe Nuttall and Armstrong.

People are SO fixated on the money but when you buy a 19yr old what do you expect?  He will be expected to kick on this season and be the main man the season after.

If there’s no progression then absolutely begin to worry. But I feel the people who are determined to judge him now will end up feeling pretty stupid at some point. If this guy becomes the player they expect in the next two years he will be the one who fires us to promotion, worth anything in the region of £25m+

So you feel that it is justifiable to spend 7 million pounds on a player who "has no real first team pedigree?" You say what do you expect like it is normal but as @Stuart asks are there any similar deals you can remember that could compare? If he proves people wrong no one will feel stupid because it will benefit the team they support. Your suggestion of him becoming worth 25m plus and firing us to promotion within 2 seasons is baseless and ridicilious sadly.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

So you feel that it is justifiable to spend 7 million pounds on a player who "has no real first team pedigree?" You say what do you expect like it is normal but as @Stuart asks are there any similar deals you can remember that could compare? If he proves people wrong no one will feel stupid because it will benefit the team they support. Your suggestion of him becoming worth 25m plus and firing us to promotion within 2 seasons is baseless and ridicilious sadly.

I can’t comment on if it’s justifiable or not because I haven’t read umpteen scout reports on him, watched him play youth games, spoken to several top coaches about his potential, or had to make the decision to sign a player for now or as a prospect. If I had all of that information I could do that.

What I do know is that when we initially tried to get him the Forest fans were outraged and insistent on social media and their forums that they didn’t want to lose him. I also recall Mowbray stating fairly early on that B.B. was one for the future.

Premier league teams spend that type of money on prospects all the time. They don’t do that because they have more money to lose. No one sets out to buy a bad player or lose money. They do it because they see the potential for that player to become amazing. To be worth 10 times the fee...

And I haven’t predicted a single thing. The point about his value, goals and future achievements was made as a rationale as to why these players are signed. It would be baseless if I or you made any assumption on his potential. The people who have made that judgement and risk assessment on the potential rewards are in informed positions.

It is absolutely ok to question the clubs decision if you feel we would have been better served by an Assombalonga right now. But they chose another route to take...

My primary point here is that to judge a 19yr Old on his ability to be a top level player based purely on a cost you have not even had to pay is basically, brainless.

 

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

Not true about the Forest fans being 'outraged' by the way, it was certainly a mixed view.

Initially I'd have to disagree, once the figure rose and rose and the fans got more used to it/knew he was off, they then played the, "we didn't want him anyway" card. Much like most transfer situations he's the best thing since sliced bread until he's no longer theirs. Can guarantee if Dack got a Premier League move, some people would be playing him down and saying he'll never make it there etc.. despite raving about him for a few years anyway.

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

Not true about the Forest fans being 'outraged' by the way, it was certainly a mixed view.

I remember a lot being outraged at the time. Once they knew it was happening it turned to apathy.

Im not saying B.B. has been a great signing. I think he’s been poor in most of the games I’ve watched and didn’t begin to look like a player until the end of the season when we played a more possession based game.

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Just now, JoeHarvey said:

Initially I'd have to disagree, once the figure rose and rose and the fans got more used to it/knew he was off, they then played the, "we didn't want him anyway" card. Much like most transfer situations he's the best thing since sliced bread until he's no longer theirs. Can guarantee if Dack got a Premier League move, some people would be playing him down and saying he'll never make it there etc.. despite raving about him for a few years anyway.

Exactly.

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Just now, Paul Mani said:

I can’t comment on if it’s justifiable or not because I haven’t read umpteen scout reports on him, watched him play youth games, spoken to several top coaches about his potential, or had to make the decision to sign a player for now or as a prospect. If I had all of that information I could do that.

What I do know is that when we initially tried to get him the Forest fans were outraged and insistent on social media and their forums that they didn’t want to lose him. I also recall Mowbray stating fairly early on that B.B. was one for the future.

Premier league teams spend that type of money on prospects all the time. They don’t do that because they have more money to lose. No one sets out to buy a bad player or lose money. They do it because they see the potential for that player to become amazing. To be worth 10 times the fee...

And I haven’t predicted a single thing. The point about his value, goals and future achievements was made as a rationale as to why these players are signed. It would be baseless if I or you made any assumption on his potential. The people who have made that judgement and risk assessment on the potential rewards are in informed positions.

It is absolutely ok to question the clubs decision if you feel we would have been better served by an Assombalonga right now. But they chose another route to take...

My primary point here is that to judge a 19yr Old on his ability to be a top level player based purely on a cost you have not even had to pay is basically, brainless.

 

So what are the exact intricate details of the Brereton purchase.

How much did we pay up front, what balance remains payable over what term, what are the add-ons, what was the Agent's fee, who was the Agent etc etc etc.

You and others dismiss the Fee, 6 or 7 million, that has been in the public domain for ages - so what was it and its terms? 

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5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

This isn’t difficult. BB was 19 when he signed for Rovers. He is an England u17 and 19 international and has won some youth honours. He is very highly rated as a future top level prospect.  He has no real first team pedigree and so was obviously bought for the future. He’s two years younger than Joe Nuttall and Armstrong.

People are SO fixated on the money but when you buy a 19yr old what do you expect?  He will be expected to kick on this season and be the main man the season after.

If there’s no progression then absolutely begin to worry. But I feel the people who are determined to judge him now will end up feeling pretty stupid at some point. If this guy becomes the player they expect in the next two years he will be the one who fires us to promotion, worth anything in the region of £25m+

I'm probably considered a "happy clapper" at times, but I expected more from Brereton. He had quite a lot of first team experience for 19 year old (53 championship games, 38 of them starts and 8 league goals for Forest). He was basicly involved in every game from his breakthrough in January 2017 untill we bought him in August. 

There is obviously potential and a player there if we can get it out. Still I think it's fair to question if the money could've been spent more wisely. My suspicion is that is was a last dance at the disco scenario, where you have to settle on what's available before the light go out. 

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How about we see what Brereton has done for the club by the time he leaves then we will be able to accurately assess if he has been worth what's been spent. 

The knee jerk reactions to signings astounds me I'm guessing everyone writing Brereton off also thought bale flopped at spurs

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3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Kenny, come on! Our transfer record was set in 2001 when we signed Andy Cole mate. That’s 18yrs ago! The fact that his (B.B.) total fee is going to cost or equal what we paid for someone 18yrs ago in a market where Championship players are regularly bought and sold for 8 figure sums is barely worth a mention.

He does need to come good. But realistically at 19yrs old he wasn’t bought to make an impact right now. He was bought because they REALLY rated him and the opportunity arose because Karanka didn’t like playing young lads. 

Whether you agree with the decision the club agreed to make on him or not, judging a 19yr old (or writing him off) is wrong. Regardless of what we’ve paid for him.

This is like any other risk / reward investment. With B.B. they believe the potential is HUGE and are willing to invest X to get it. But they knew that the timeframe to receiving that reward (Goals / promotion / £30m) needed to be longer term. Of course it’s a risk but they decided that wanted this over paying for example £10m plus £70k per week wages on Assimbalonga.

Either way, there’d be no expectation that B.B. would replace DG ‘sooner rather than later’

When we are spending the most money on anyone since Jordan Rhodes (who also equalled the Andy Cole fee) means it's going to warrant discussion. 

Particularly when you consider how much money we owe Venky's in the latest accounts. 

I'm not writing anyone off. I've made barely any comment about his performances so far. Nobody was happier than me when he opened his account against Bolton!

I want him to come good! 

But Rovers aren't the type of club that can afford to spend that fee on a player without him going straight into the team. We aren't a PL team with their income streams.

Edited by K-Hod

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2 hours ago, rigger said:

The problem is we have limited financial resources, and at the moment we do not need a keeper, but we do need a center half with leadership qualities. That is where I would like to see our resources go.

I agree we need a centre half but I could use your exact argument for the reasoning of a new keeper, someone with leadership qualities. In my opinion it's possibly more important, Raya cost us easy 10 points last season, maybe more in regards to lack of organisation and communication with his back 4. if we have any ambitions of getting out of this league then we need to be strengthening our weakest areas.

 

In my opinion we need 5 good quality players, GK, CB, LB, CM and CF. I think if we can quality and experience to those areas we'll be in good shape. 

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10 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

How about we see what Brereton has done for the club by the time he leaves then we will be able to accurately assess if he has been worth what's been spent. 

The knee jerk reactions to signings astounds me I'm guessing everyone writing Brereton off also thought bale flopped at spurs

I don't believe it's a knee-jerk from many at all. In particular what irks me is the fact we spent a huge amount of money (perhaps at the expense of more important areas) on a 'project' which even by Mowbrays admission is somewhat of a gamble. For him to only start four games and end up with the under 23's speaks volumes in my opinion. It's early days as you rightly say but the signs so far have been completely discouraging. Personally I don't even see the basics in him but we can all see different things in players.

Irrespective of what anybody thinks he will be here for a while.

I, along with the vast majority want him to do well as that will be to the betterment of our club.

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1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I can’t comment on if it’s justifiable or not because I haven’t read umpteen scout reports on him, watched him play youth games, spoken to several top coaches about his potential, or had to make the decision to sign a player for now or as a prospect. If I had all of that information I could do that.

What I do know is that when we initially tried to get him the Forest fans were outraged and insistent on social media and their forums that they didn’t want to lose him. I also recall Mowbray stating fairly early on that B.B. was one for the future.

Premier league teams spend that type of money on prospects all the time. They don’t do that because they have more money to lose. No one sets out to buy a bad player or lose money. They do it because they see the potential for that player to become amazing. To be worth 10 times the fee...

And I haven’t predicted a single thing. The point about his value, goals and future achievements was made as a rationale as to why these players are signed. It would be baseless if I or you made any assumption on his potential. The people who have made that judgement and risk assessment on the potential rewards are in informed positions.

It is absolutely ok to question the clubs decision if you feel we would have been better served by an Assombalonga right now. But they chose another route to take...

My primary point here is that to judge a 19yr Old on his ability to be a top level player based purely on a cost you have not even had to pay is basically, brainless.

 

The fees comes into play in terms of the discussion as to whether hes a success as a signing. Premier League clubs obviously dont want to throw money away either but they have much more money in general to afford to take a risk on a project. You can say how long ago the Andy Cole deal was but for context, all the rest of our transfer fees combined over at least 5 or 6 years wont match the Brereton one so yes it is a massive amount of money for a club like ours at this stage of the teams development with many weaknesses in the team. People are right to question whether we can afford to blow the majority of our money on a project who last year didnt even provide competition/adequate back up for Graham.

In terms of my prediction as to whether he can be a top level player, I base that totally on what I have seen so far, and I would suggest that he is incredibly unlikely to have the potential to do that.

If you prefer not to comment due to not having all the information (scouting reports etc) at hand then why are you so embroiled in defending the deal. Ultimately all that matters is what happens on the pitch.

30 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

How about we see what Brereton has done for the club by the time he leaves then we will be able to accurately assess if he has been worth what's been spent. 

The knee jerk reactions to signings astounds me I'm guessing everyone writing Brereton off also thought bale flopped at spurs

Makes no sense this. Should we have a ban on discussing any of our players until they leave?

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

Makes no sense this. Should we have a ban on discussing any of our players until they leave?

No but maybe judge u21s with more patience even if they have a potentially large fee.

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