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Summer Transfer Window 2019

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Just now, AAK said:

Raya

Defending his goal on corners/crosses, terrible
Communication to defenders, terrible
Distribution, absolutley terrible
Unforced errors, far too many
Points cost per season, 10-15

Very average keeper, if he wasn't an academy product, think he would have been that scapegoat, he always seem to like to have.
 

I doubt Brentford would be interested if it was so simple! Not sure who made this, but interesting reading.

486F674D-AF7E-4755-A773-F6CD4A018BB5.jpeg

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Just now, Lie_still_Rover said:

What's Shay Given up to these days?

Dunno but he's probably about the right age for Mowbray and the Ewood last payday retirement home.

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7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The Duffer is the stand out. Not many more. Maybe I am forgetting someone 

Nzonzi maybe?

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Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Dunno but he's probably about the right age for Mowbray and the Ewood last payday retirement home.

Yea cos most our team is well old.

At least if you’re gonna moan, please make it accurate.

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Get Jason Steele back

Underrated whilst he was here

*(my tongue is firmly in my cheek before anyone lambasts me!!)

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Just now, Biz said:

I doubt Brentford would be interested if it was so simple! Not sure who made this, but interesting reading.

486F674D-AF7E-4755-A773-F6CD4A018BB5.jpeg

Forest fans probably said same when we signed Brereton pal. If they have some spanish coach, as has been mentioned, that has probably swayed it, maybe he thinks he can improve him, which is fair enough, but I wouldn't like to see him as first team keeper here for another 2 or 3 season waiting for him to improve which I doubt he would under our 'non footballing' keeper coach Benson, if he was a backup keeper, that would be okay, but not as first choice, imo.

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Brentford aren't daft. Far from it. They're one of the best clubs around in terms of recruitment and player progression. Theyre in a different League to us on that front.On that basis I'm sure Raya will be worth a lot more to them than they pay us. Folk trying to inflate the price to 5 million are off their rockers. Take a quick look through Brentford's incoming transfer spending over the years and ask yourselves if they are really going to start throwing around 3 to 5 million on an unproven goalkeeper from Rovers who has a lot to prove. 

Nope, not having it myself. It'll be 2 million or so at the most. They'll see an opportunity to develop him and sell on for a profit. 

I suspect this is the evidence of Mowbray having to raise funds and he's decided letting Raya go is ok in the scheme of things. 

On his head be it but the proof will be in who comes in. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Still work to do. The keeper and CB signings need to be good, but I think anyone who says we haven't progressed under Mowbray needs to compare that backbone to the one which lined out in Mowbrays first game. How many were frees loans and out of contract that summer? It was basically renford rejects 

I've said this a few times over recent weeks, so I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I really think this is a massively important point which can't be overstated. 

I don't like using the language of assets/liabilities - we're a football club who exists to win games, not post profits. But there's no getting away from the fact that if you were to look at that team in financial terms, we were littered with toxic assets that were unsellable due to age/form/size of contract, or loans. We managed to get a fee for Steele somehow, other than that there was only really Lenihan who could have realistically fetched a fee into the millions, even then perhaps £2million.

Fast-forward to where we are now; a squad that definitely needs improving significantly, but one where we can actually operate as a trading club, where we own our best players and where they're of a good age. Obviously we want to keep the good ones, but at least it gives us options and a platform which was a million miles away from where we were. 

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Just now, Biz said:

I doubt Brentford would be interested if it was so simple! Not sure who made this, but interesting reading.

486F674D-AF7E-4755-A773-F6CD4A018BB5.jpeg

If that's correct the finger swings firmly back in the direction of the defence again and suggests he's carrying the can for that which raises questions towards the manager.

However just think what his stats would've been if he didn't drop so many howlers.

It's an odd case this one.

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My view on Raya is that he did not improve at all last season overall - some truly amazing saves, but the same frailties remained. If he was that good, then clubs other than Brentford would have been sniffing...

Whatever your views on Raya, it's not a surprise to see him leave considering he was dropped for the final 4 games of last season. Mowbray et al have surely known since that point that we'd be signing a new keeper so I'd be surprised if one isn't lined up and signed next week. In all likelihood, it could be someone who can play a bit as we progress to a new style of play.

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There has to be a goal keeper lined up surely if Raya is about to leave. For what it's worth, I think he's as good as he's going to ever be, he's not big enough to be a commanding presence. Or loud enough either, I went to Brentford, I never heard him once that I can recall he was yards away from me. I remember watching Robinson and Flowers and you could hear them from the other side of the pitch. Also, you've got to consider that we're also trying to bring through other keepers from the academy, which will be a waste of money if Raya is going to remain a bang average number 1 for us for the next 10 years. They've developed him, now they're making profit on him, as long as it doesn't end up in the bastards pockets and reinvested in the squad then it's a great move. I think people are being far too sentimental about him, he's easily replaceable and let's not forget... A complete liability at times. 

Edited by Neal

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I hadn't realised that Ruddy was in the form that he was for Wolves in their promotion year - it seemed to me as if he was going through a Robinson-esque premature decline in fitness and form. 

The he got into the team of the year as recently as the season before last makes him an absolute no brainer if he's within our budget. 

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My biggest problem with Raya was not his lack of orientation whenever there was a crossing or a high ball coming his way, nor was the feet aspect of his game. His disability to organise the defence infornt of him was what bothered me the most. 
 He is a bit too much of a 'nice person' for a keeper in my opinion.

I would like our goalie to be someone who is ugly, scary , crazy and noisy rather than someone whoms good personality is stopping him from shouting at people

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Just now, Biz said:

 

486F674D-AF7E-4755-A773-F6CD4A018BB5.jpeg

That graph either tells us that 1) Raya is much better than a lot give him credit for, 2) it's open season on our goal every game or 3) both.

Knowing Raya doesn't get much credit on here...

The outfield players (not just defenders) have to help out on crosses, win headers, track runners etc AND it's their job to prevent the crosses coming in and to prevent shots on goal. The don't.

That graph indicates that we actually already have an elite shot stopper at this level in Raya, and without serious defensive improvements - were still screwed.

For what it's worth, Johnson-Travis will probably save us 10 goals compared to Evans-Smallwood. 

We need a new CB. 

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Selling Raya without a replacement already lined up would be a huge mistake. We wouldn't have a keeper left worthy of the name. If we don't know  who we are getting to replace him, we risk downgrading an already vulnerable area. As well as being overcharged ('Oh Blackburn badly need a goalie and have a fresh 3 million sitting in their pockets from the last one').

I actually don't want to sell him at all, I just want serious competition for him. If we do sell him it must include a huge sell on clause and not happen before we have at least a good deal of progress on a replacement.

Think we should hold out for that 4 million too, regardless whether Brentford want to pay it. Lad has at least ten years left in his career, so that's 300k a season, in a market where value inflates hugely over time, on a player who could still improve a lot and sell for far more.

Uncomfortable with this.

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6 minutes ago, AAK said:

Raya

Defending his goal on corners/crosses, terrible
Communication to defenders, terrible
Distribution, absolutley terrible
Unforced errors, far too many
Points cost per season, 10-15

Very average keeper, if he wasn't an academy product, think he would have been that scapegoat, we always seem to like to have.
 

Think this is a little harsh. Also you need to balance those points he cost us - against some world class saves he did that gained us points. Overall though I felt he cost more than he gained.

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Big John Ruddy is actually a decent shout. I personally absolutely love Raya as i just think he is one of our own from our academy. It is a shame to see him go. However, the positive is that the return on invesment is great and i am sure there would be a sell on clause. So far Mowbray has made decent experienced signing. Bradley Johnson is class for this division. I just feel we need to sell off some in our midfield your Smallwoods, Derrick Williams. Loan out Buckley, Nuttall, Grayson, Buttersworth, Magloire. Bring in a LB, CB, GK, and a striker. Job done! :) 

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I think we've got to trust that we've already sounded out potential replacements for Raya before we've agreed to any serious discussion with Brentford over his transfer.

If we've not signed a keeper within a week of him leaving, we're blagging it.

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4 minutes ago, Biz said:

I doubt Brentford would be interested if it was so simple! Not sure who made this, but interesting reading.

486F674D-AF7E-4755-A773-F6CD4A018BB5.jpeg

Tells you everything you need to know really. he saved 3.5 shots before conceding a goal on average - second best in the league at that. So whose fault was it that we were facing so many shots in the first place? Put a good defence in front of him and you have a good keeper at this level that has the potential to develop into an even better one.

He made a lot of mistakes, there is no getting away from that but it would seem that TM has either pushed him out believing he was the main culprit for the insane amount fo goals we shifted last year or Raya has pushed for a move after TMs rather public condemnation of him and then dropping him at the end of the season.

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1 minute ago, Biz said:

Yea cos most our team is well old.

At least if you’re gonna moan, please make it accurate.

Ok.

Leutwiler 30

Mulgrew 33

Bennett 31 in December

Johnson 32

Downing 35 in July

Graham 34 in August

Evans and Smallwood 30 next year.

That's eight. That accurate enough for you and how many do you want?

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Just now, Neal said:

There has to be a goal keeper lined up surely if Raya is about to leave. For what it's worth, I think he's as good as he's going to ever be, he's not big enough to be a commanding presence. 

Imagine Raya in the Brentford goal defending an inswinging corner from Mulgrew....

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Just now, briansol said:

Imagine Raya in the Brentford goal defending an inswinging corner from Mulgrew....

Mulgrew would probably score it but then our defence with Mulgrew in it will let in their customary three goals in two minutes.

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