Mowbray’s Future

[Neal]

I think it's pretty dangerous talking about changing manager. Let him attempt to fulfil what he says he intends to do, if he fails or worse takes us backwards then fair enough but overall a good job all things considered. We have a manager that the owners trust to invest in for once, I think people have lost sight of what state we were in before him and what state we could be in again if we change manager. 

[FGS5635]

I think he's done a good job to this point. However we are now at the stage were he has to look at the next evoloution of this side.

For that he needs to identify a prefered style and formation and then get the right players for it.

We have got this far on team spirit, graft and a splash or real quality in certain areas.

We will need a lot more than that to get out of this league. We are very pragmatic, have a team full of effort, play 2 holding midfeild players and yet still concede way to many.

We need to find a way to get on the front foot more and dominate games. Every game is to much of a 50/50 coin toss as we cant put teams away

The season is over now for me. We wont go up, we wont go down. He needs to use the rest of this year as planning and testing for next season now

No more conway, rothwell needs a chance to either sink or swim. Get brereton in wherever you see him long term and get him the game time he needs.

If you think any of the youth setup have a chance at this level, then give them some mins and see what they have got

If we have no chance of signing reed, then he needs to warm the bench.

If nyambe is our long term right back, then he needs to start there every game

The list goes on, but its all about next season now and how we move forward for me

[BlackburnEnd75]

10 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

I think he's done a good job to this point. However we are now at the stage were he has to look at the next evoloution of this side.

For that he needs to identify a prefered style and formation and then get the right players for it.

We have got this far on team spirit, graft and a splash or real quality in certain areas.

We will need a lot more than that to get out of this league. We are very pragmatic, have a team full of effort, play 2 holding midfeild players and yet still concede way to many.

We need to find a way to get on the front foot more and dominate games. Every game is to much of a 50/50 coin toss as we cant put teams away

The season is over now for me. We wont go up, we wont go down. He needs to use the rest of this year as planning and testing for next season now

No more conway, rothwell needs a chance to either sink or swim. Get brereton in wherever you see him long term and get him the game time he needs.

If you think any of the youth setup have a chance at this level, then give them some mins and see what they have got

If we have no chance of signing reed, then he needs to warm the bench.

If nyambe is our long term right back, then he needs to start there every game

The list goes on, but its all about next season now and how we move forward for me

I agree with pretty much all of this (maybe the bit on Reed is going a bit far)

On the point of moving to the next level Tony has talked a really good game on it in the past of the top of my head we've had quotes along the line of - If the players don't step up to the level then we'll buy new players - there's money to spend - we want to evolve our style of play. But then he does the opposite. He's building expectation for a promotion push next season,

[FGS5635]

Just now, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I agree with pretty much all of this (maybe the bit on Reed is going a bit far)

On the point of moving to the next level Tony has talked a really good game on it in the past of the top of my head we've had quotes along the line of - If the players don't step up to the level then we'll buy new players - there's money to spend - we want to evolve our style of play. But then he does the opposite. He's building expectation for a promotion push next season,

Reed is the kind of signing we need to get to the next level. But my point is about being realistic about the possibility.

If there is a chance we sign him then fine. But if we know we probably wont sign him, then whats the point of us helping him and his club out.

Him taking mins away from travis, chapman, rothwell plus some youngsters is pointless for next season.

Tony needs to be ruthless now to reach the next level. He is going to have to upset a good few and manage the fallout from that.

Its not easy, but thats why he gets paid the big bucks, to make these choices

[JHRover]

Harrison Reed is exactly the type we should be after, but he's just one piece of the jigsaw. We could really do with retaining him and I really hope we find a way to do it, but whatever we do there are 3 or 4 other areas that need improvement. It seems Mowbray isn't going to start Reed in CM, so with that in mind we need to come up with another alternative to the Evans/Smallwood axis. I think Evans has been good this season, and I'll never question Smallwood's commitment or effort, but a combination of the two starting every game is a problem.

Luckily we have surplus budget left over from last summer (Waggott) plus money available in January that we elected not to spend (Mowbray) plus whatever Venkys make available for the summer window. Rolled into one that should be a nice healthy kitty to dip into and with our new scouting/recruitment network getting up to speed we should be seeing the fruits of that by more imaginative and better value signings rather than seemingly pursuing from a very short list. I won't hold my breath though.

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

I think it's pretty dangerous talking about changing manager. Let him attempt to fulfil what he says he intends to do, if he fails or worse takes us backwards then fair enough but overall a good job all things considered. We have a manager that the owners trust to invest in for once, I think people have lost sight of what state we were in before him and what state we could be in again if we change manager. 

Exactly point. Could go the other way and we get a new manager, owners stop backing the club and we end with another Coyle type manager. 

I agree we should let Mowbray get on with his plans for the club..

Try the negative/knee jerked reactions stop. Same as last season when some on here thought Hurst was so brillant. Now look what happened to him. 

[JHRover]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Exactly point. Could go the other way and we get a new manager, owners stop backing the club and we end with another Coyle type manager. 

I agree we should let Mowbray get on with his plans for the club..

Try the negative/knee jerked reactions stop. Same as last season when some on here thought Hurst was so brillant. Now look what happened to him. 

If the owners really decide on their backing for the club on who the manager is then I'd suggest we give up now, because we'll never get anywhere if that is the way of doing things.

Likewise the fact that you're concerned they'll get another Coyle - you'll remember they preferred Coyle to Warnock and only got rid of him and brought in Mowbray when it was too late - at no normal or successful club do managers get retained out of concern about who will follow them - only at Venkys Rovers.

Hurst did a brilliant job with Shrewsbury with no money, there's no argument there, and as such was touted for bigger things. What he did at Ipswich this season clearly wasn't very good. What Mick McCarthy did at Ipswich was very good yet you seem to have an intense dislike for him.

What knee jerk reactions are you referring to? Knee jerk to me implies people are suggesting Mowbray should go on the back of one or two results. I've seen a very small number suggest Mowbray should go and they have all been based on what they have seen all season with our regular away day collapses.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Exactly point. Could go the other way and we get a new manager, owners stop backing the club and we end with another Coyle type manager. 

I agree we should let Mowbray get on with his plans for the club..

Try the negative/knee jerked reactions stop. Same as last season when some on here thought Hurst was so brillant. Now look what happened to him. 

And look what happened to Shrewsbury after he left.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

We're simply not going to get promoted with TM I'm afraid. He's brought some much needed stability after the absolute car crash that was Coyle but I believe that'll be as good as it gets; mid table stability with the odd flirt with the play-offs.

I just don't believe TM has the skills to get us promoted with the resources he is going to be given by Venkys. And herein lies our problem, as per usual, our sodding owners. The worse thing though is that TM is absolutely the best we can hope for under this lot. Anyone with a better, more appropriate skill set wouldn't touch us with a barge poll. Upsetting but an absolute fact if you look at the last 8 years. 

Accepting the above has certainly helped me. Football goes in cycles and I just hope I'm still of an age where I'm interested when Venkys crawl out of town and we get some owners that know how to run a football club and give us  a realistic hope of getting back to the promised land. 

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, Neal said:

I think it's pretty dangerous talking about changing manager. Let him attempt to fulfil what he says he intends to do, if he fails or worse takes us backwards then fair enough but overall a good job all things considered. We have a manager that the owners trust to invest in for once, I think people have lost sight of what state we were in before him and what state we could be in again if we change manager. 

Mowbray absolutely does not deserve to be sacked at this time, and we could certainly end up with someone far worse.

I just don't think he will take us any further, and fear we may already be going into reverse, but hope he proves me wrong.

[Neal]

5 minutes ago, martonrover said:

Mowbray absolutely does not deserve to be sacked at this time, and we could certainly end up with someone far worse.

I just don't think he will take us any further, and fear we may already be going into reverse, but hope he proves me wrong.

I suppose it remains to be seen. He has done it in this league before, so whilst he's here I'm going to place my faith in him to try and do the same. I think it will become pretty apparent when he can't take us any further but now is not that time. Reading should be a big warning to him though that it could all go south quickly if he doesn't get his house in order now and in the summer. 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Neal said:

I suppose it remains to be seen. He has done it in this league before, so whilst he's here I'm going to place my faith in him to try and do the same. 

The Championship has changed a lot in the 11 years since Mowbray got his promotion from it. 

[martonrover]

8 minutes ago, Neal said:

I suppose it remains to be seen. He has done it in this league before, so whilst he's here I'm going to place my faith in him to try and do the same. I think it will become pretty apparent when he can't take us any further but now is not that time. Reading should be a big warning to him though that it could all go south quickly if he doesn't get his house in order now and in the summer. 

He did it early in his managerial career, (with WBA), but we've had other managers who could say the same, (*cough* Lambert and Coyle!)

I agree, now isn't the time to judge, but he has previous of results tapering downwards. Coventry being a very good example.

What really worries me is his apparent lack of concern with regards to our defending.

It's clearly a major problem, but he doesn't even reference it in media interviews.

Probably not all Tony's fault, but I do think we missed a trick by not strengthening further in January.

We had turned a corner and results / performances were on the up.

We needed a bit of quality and cover in certain areas.

We didn't get it, and since the deadline have suffered injuries & fatigue to key players, and subsequent poor results.

With little or no chance of a play off push, it's quite possible the current dip will continue for a sustained period.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, martonrover said:

He did it early in his managerial career, (with WBA), but we've had other managers who could say the same, (*cough* Lambert and Coyle!)

Funnily enough Coyle got Burnley promoted the same season that Mowbray got his promotion from this league. But as I said previously that was 11 years ago now and the Championship has changed a lot since then.

Edit: It might have been the season afterwards actually

Edited February 14, 2019 by Ewood Ace
correction

[jim mk2]

 

31 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Funnily enough Coyle got Burnley promoted the same season that Mowbray got his promotion from this league. But as I said previously that was 11 years ago now and the Championship has changed a lot since then.

Yes it has. In recent years foreign coaches have come in, such as at Wolves, Huddersfield, Norwich etc, with great effect.  They understand the game much better than our managers. Even last night, Mowbray was out-thought by another foreign coach.  He'd get more respect from the fans if he'd acknowledge we have a defensive problem. As it stands, I think his stock is rapidly going downhill.  Fans were getting very frustrated at last night's game. 

[LDRover]

The problem, as Jim alluded to in the match thread, is that fan apathy has already set in. This will quickly turn to anger if there is no improvement and when a manager loses the majority of fans there really is no way back.

[Stuart]

£10m is a lot of money to give up when you get to 43 points and expect to get the necessary points just to idle over the line; maybe be blood a few youngsters.

The aim like every season we are in this division should have been to get to 50 points and then really go for it. Pick your best team every week and aim high.

When you are within 3 points of the play-offs after two-thirds of the season, you need to be looking upwards not downwards. Start to build that team from January, not from the Summer. We have/had money - why not? Are we covering up a big mistake in buying Brereton after finding out he wasn’t up to it during his loan spell? “Project signing” indeed. How arrogant.

There are no guarantees that we will buy well in the Summer. There are no guarantees we won’t get a bad run of fixtures at the start of next season and then get some injuries to key players. We are set to lose this season’s player of the season (time now) in the Summer. Can we replace him? We have a dodgy defence that the manager doesn’t think needs upgrading. Wil his hand be forced - or will Rodwell sign? Let’s face it, our scouts don’t seem to have rail cards, let alone air miles.

We could easily be in a relegation battle next season - top 6 could be extremely difficult indeed with the next three ex-PL teams joining. No team gets the luxury of picking and choosing when they go on a promotion charge. You buy well, inject them with fitness, give them a game plan and hope for the best. When it starts to pay off, you capitalise, you build and you try to take the opportunity that fate presents you. Last season fate gave us the chance to win the league and we simply didn’t bother. The manager didn’t care enough. Same this season. Maybe he doesn’t want to build up any expectation or pressure to then fail. Aim low, just about get over the pre-season target line, and then relax.

Not good enough. IMHO.

[jim mk2]

We won't be going down so that's job done as far as Mowbray's concerned. He said in a recent interview he wanted to secure his family's future (despite already being a multi-millionaire after nearly 40 years in the game) - so, another guaranteed season at Ewood will help towards that goal. Don't raise expectations, play down fans' hopes, keep it ticking it over by not getting too high in the league and not too low, and play the long game by talking about a multi-year project. BRFC = a pension fund manager's dream. 

[DeeCee]

Biggest problem imo is that he doesn't seem to address the obvious deficiencies in our play.

[Mercer]

11 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

We won't be going down so that's job done as far as Mowbray's concerned. He said in a recent interview he wanted to secure his family's future (despite already being a multi-millionaire after nearly 40 years in the game) - so, another guaranteed season at Ewood will help towards that goal. Don't raise expectations, play down fans' hopes, keep it ticking it over by not getting too high in the league and not too low, and play the long game by talking about a multi-year project. BRFC = a pension fund manager's dream. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

We need a manager who is hungry and innovative.

Managers can get too comfortable and they do lose their edge, if they ever had one!

Think another issue is the quality of staff Mowbray has.  Have watched both Venus and Lowe closely on match day and feel underwhelmed - just can't see any spark.  Also saw Lowe several times with the Academy lads and again felt underwhelmed.  Have mentioned it before but think it's worth mentioning again - when United were at Ewood on one occasion, closely watched McClaren's pre match session with the United players, it was innovative and electric and you could see how fired up they were and how much of a buzz there was.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Mercer

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

We need a manager who is hungry and innovative.

Managers can get too comfortable and they do lose their edge, if they ever had one!

Think another issue is the quality of staff Mowbray has.  Have watched both Venus and Lowe closely on match day and feel underwhelmed - just can't see any spark.  Also saw Lowe several times with the Academy lads and again felt underwhelmed.  Have mentioned it before but think it's worth mentioning again - when United were at Ewood on one occasion, closely watched McClaren's pre match session with the United players, it was innovative and electric and you could see how fired up they were and how much of a buzz there was.

You would wonder why he is only managing QPR so 

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

We won't be going down so that's job done as far as Mowbray's concerned. He said in a recent interview he wanted to secure his family's future (despite already being a multi-millionaire after nearly 40 years in the game) - so, another guaranteed season at Ewood will help towards that goal. Don't raise expectations, play down fans' hopes, keep it ticking it over by not getting too high in the league and not too low, and play the long game by talking about a multi-year project. BRFC = a pension fund manager's dream. 

So it's a Mowbray conspiracy in your opinion. Don't get relegated and don't get promoted. The man is an evil genius and none of us can see it only you. 

Is Brereton in on it? What about the tea lady? She would be worth having onside to give the players performace diminishing drugs just in case we looked like going up. 

 

[Mercer]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

You would wonder why he is only managing QPR so 

Think it's some 20 years ago before he became United's number two.

Held some big managerial positions including England coach.  Been on a downward spiral for last 10 years but in his early days was hungry and innovative (played a big part in success at Derby / United as a number 2).

He's probably forgotten more than the collective footballing 'genius' (cough, cough) of Mowbray / Venus / Lowe have ever known. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

If the owners really decide on their backing for the club on who the manager is then I'd suggest we give up now, because we'll never get anywhere if that is the way of doing things.

Likewise the fact that you're concerned they'll get another Coyle - you'll remember they preferred Coyle to Warnock and only got rid of him and brought in Mowbray when it was too late - at no normal or successful club do managers get retained out of concern about who will follow them - only at Venkys Rovers.

Hurst did a brilliant job with Shrewsbury with no money, there's no argument there, and as such was touted for bigger things. What he did at Ipswich this season clearly wasn't very good. What Mick McCarthy did at Ipswich was very good yet you seem to have an intense dislike for him.

What knee jerk reactions are you referring to? Knee jerk to me implies people are suggesting Mowbray should go on the back of one or two results. I've seen a very small number suggest Mowbray should go and they have all been based on what they have seen all season with our regular away day collapses.

No, but Mowbray;s success and The family seem more engaged with the club then most of their reign. The owners seem happy to spend money and invest money into the playing squad which never happened under Coyle and towards the end of Bowyer reign here. 

Hurst did a brilliant job at Shrewsbury but he upset everyone at Ipswich including backroom staff and players with his attitude. 

I have seem some comments that are knee jerk reactions on social media but some people have want Mowbray out since last season

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

And look what happened to Shrewsbury after he left.

Back to their level and was bound to happen when they lost so many key players like Henderson, Nsiala, Nolan, Morris and Payne

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

The Championship has changed a lot in the 11 years since Mowbray got his promotion from it. 

Football has changed alot in 11 years 

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Think it's some 20 years ago before he became United's number two.

Held some big managerial positions including England coach.  Been on a downward spiral for last 10 years but in his early days was hungry and innovative (played a big part in success at Derby / United as a number 2).

He's probably forgotten more than the collective footballing 'genius' (cough, cough) of Mowbray / Venus / Lowe have ever known. 

Played a big part in what success at Derby?