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Mowbray’s Future


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7 minutes ago, Mercer said:

“Ten against 11 there was only one winner" - Mowbray in tonight's LT.

So what went wrong at Boro Mowbray?

Think he's losing credibility by the hour.

 

I’d have still put my bottom dollar on us going another 20 mins, which would have taken us to FT, without scoring had it stayed 11 vs 10.

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1 hour ago, scotchrover said:

I’ve waited a few hours to post, otherwise it really would have been a ‘guts-to-gob’ like reaction. 

For me, there are four main issues:

1) Our front line is set out wrong. Playing 1 upfront, 2 in behind doesn’t work in my eyes. Danny Graham needs a man alongside him. We’re relying an awful lot on him holding the ball up, and that just can’t happen if he’s there alone. As a result, balls are coming right back at us, when we’re trying to push out.

2) Smallwood and Evans aren’t good enough to provide the back four with adequate protection . Smallwood hasn’t been good enough since his suspension last season. His decision making has been- the majority of the time- absolutely abysmal. Evans has had one decent season since he joined many moons back. For me though, his lack of pace has been telling. The lad’s legs have completely gone. 

3) The winger situation, which has been an issue for many years, is forcing us to play lads like Reed and Rothwell (who should be down the middle), out wide. Armstrong’s even played out there a few times, and more recently Bell and Nyambi have started to play as wing backs to compensate for this issue. If Nyambi and Bell push on, we are left vulnerable at the back. 

4) Confidence- any team that’s won 1 in 9 is bound to be shot of it. 

Mowbray is still the man for me, and will be for a long time. For anyone who remembers going to Plymouth, Southend or Oldham away , or even Doncaster at home last season, we’ve come a long way. This season wasn’t about promotion for the realist, it was about a mid table finish, with a solid base to build on for 19/20. 

Be careful what you wish for those calling for head. Venky’s are only a few phone calls away from appointing another hasbeen disaster of a manager.

Don't sack him, help him. Strengthen the team around him. Promote Johnno. 

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3 hours ago, tomphil said:

Not calling for his head for one min BUT is this squad not really quite good enough for this level still OR is it one of those you feel a different voice and approach could get something more resembling consistency out of them ?

One thing that does stand out going off his previous clubs is when Mogga loses his grip he really loses it, I desperately hope that isn't the case but a couple of overachieving results aside that maybe skewed early expectations this season has resembled a bit of another confused look about it in terms of selections and tactics and basically straw clutching hoping something works.

Many of us did say it though in summer that some genuine upgrades in players were desperately needed instead of just squad men, you reap what you sow.

In retrospect the summer recruitment was a disaster. We need almost as many players now as we did then. Reed shines out like a beacon. I thought Rothwell was a great addition but TM apparently doesn't. After that----meh!

The key areas we all identified were barely addressed. I know people will say TM couldn't solve all the problems in one window, its that he advanced us hardly at all! Reed, the best one, is only on loan, we can expect to lose Dack, not looking good at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You mean Mowbray needs to be on the same wavelength as Johnno. We need a new voice and a new approach behind the scenes.

Neither of them needs to be on the same wave-length. What would need to happen would for both to come to the right decisions for the team. Similar to Clough and Taylor.

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https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17326026.sheffield-united-3-blackburn-rovers-0-match-verdict/

"Whether it be their reliance on Danny Graham, Bradley Dack and Charlie Mulgrew for goals, an inability to convert winning positions or a tendency to ship goals in the final 20 minutes of matches or in quick succession, there are problems for Tony Mowbray to solve.

A defence, almost identical to that of the 2016/17 relegation campaign, has now shipped 40 goals in 25 games, the same number as at the same stage in their previous Championship season"

Nice to see Rich Sharpe finally addressing what has been obvious for quite a while. 

Calling for Mowbray's sacking is ludicrous at this stage. He has just got us promoted and we sit mid-table. If we continue to spiral down to the point we are in danger of relegation then that decision needs to be taken. I'd suggest we are a couple of months from that point.

However, we are on appalling run and Mowbray has some tough decisions to make. That is his job.  If it's not his fault (which it never is) then it has to be the players. He has to decide which players cost us points on a regular basis. He could, on that basis, drop everyone of his defence. The same defence, as pointed out by Sharpe, that shipped the same number of goals at this point in the season under Coyle. Either Mowbray is as shit as Coyle or the same defenders have always been shit. Because, lets be honest, our defence is mostly shit. Game management, fitness and all the rest of it may be an issue but the goals conceded are because our defenders can't defend. 

He also has to address the lack of goal from open play. This has been obvious all season. The system he plays isn't working. We look inept going forward unless the opposition leave Dack the freedom of the park.

He has a lot to work on. That's what he gets paid for. 

 

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8 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17326026.sheffield-united-3-blackburn-rovers-0-match-verdict/

"Whether it be their reliance on Danny Graham, Bradley Dack and Charlie Mulgrew for goals, an inability to convert winning positions or a tendency to ship goals in the final 20 minutes of matches or in quick succession, there are problems for Tony Mowbray to solve.

A defence, almost identical to that of the 2016/17 relegation campaign, has now shipped 40 goals in 25 games, the same number as at the same stage in their previous Championship season"

Nice to see Rich Sharpe finally addressing what has been obvious for quite a while. 

Calling for Mowbray's sacking is ludicrous at this stage. He has just got us promoted and we sit mid-table. If we continue to spiral down to the point we are in danger of relegation then that decision needs to be taken. I'd suggest we are a couple of months from that point.

However, we are on appalling run and Mowbray has some tough decisions to make. That is his job.  If it's not his fault (which it never is) then it has to be the players. He has to decide which players cost us points on a regular basis. He could, on that basis, drop everyone of his defence. The same defence, as pointed out by Sharpe, that shipped the same number of goals at this point in the season under Coyle. Either Mowbray is as shit as Coyle or the same defenders have always been shit. Because, lets be honest, our defence is mostly shit. Game management, fitness and all the rest of it may be an issue but the goals conceded are because our defenders can't defend. 



He also has to address the lack of goal from open play. This has been obvious all season. The system he plays isn't working. We look inept going forward unless the opposition leave Dack the freedom of the park.

He has a lot to work on. That's what he gets paid for. 

 

Worrying that Mowbray couldn't see what most could see about our defence and believed it was good enough for this level. I believe now is the time to sack Mowbray otherwise I believe this spiral down the table is only going to continue but if we are to keep Mowbray we need to bring someone in to take charge of recruitment. Mowbray's signings (Dack aside) has been average at best and if the January signing have as little impact as the summer ones then a relegation battle beckons. 

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One thing I find totally bizarre is, reading many peoples thoughts on how we restructure the squad, how blatantly obvious it is that Bradley Dack is suffering from what I would call Jordan Rhodes syndrome.

In spite at times of those around him, in spite of the team not playing in a way that necessarily suits him, he has consistently contributed to a very regular number of goals throughout his time here, to the point that it has become grossly underappreciated.

When Dack leaves, be in no doubt that it will leave a gargantuan hole in our team. People putting forward Rothwell as a potential replacement of kind, what has he ever done to even suggest that he can get near the consistent level of Dack in terms of getting us goals?

Suggesting selling him obviously also has to factor in that Mowbray could not expect all of the fee back to spend on numerous players. And how Dack is very much an exception in terms of unqualified successes from Mowbrays buys in the transfer market, with Brereton an example of what 7 million gets Mowbray.

I find Sheffield United an interesting comparison in terms of a fairly common reference point that I have seen our fans use. I don't see anything like the same level of consistency in terms of results, or the same obvious signs of a plan coming into place.

They finished 10th last season, doing well but running out of steam. Then came the transfer window, in which their gem David Brooks was sold, admittedly a player who hadnt got the consistency of goals as Dack has for us. But Wilder has progressed in the team in spite of a star player leaving. By spending 7 million on a striker who made his first start in the last game of the year, and has yet to score? No, but by signing a perfect dominant centre back to enhance them defensively, and Norwood, a superb Championship central midfielder to help dictate the play with Fleck. Added to that, he made a very shrewd signing I suggested we should have looked at in David McGoldrick and there are tangible improvements right down the spine of the team. Whereas bar Reed, all of our signings spend most of the time sat on their arses on the bench or in the stands.

His team has a clear identity, and no surplus of excess players lacking a specific role within it. You look at aspects of his team, 2 outside centre backs often contributing to attacks, 2 really reliable wing backs, 2 central midfielders who dominate possession and get Duffy in the hole. When Basham was sent off, it didnt seem to affect them one jot, if anything, their red card seemed to confuse our lot!

I am not saying we need to copy their style or their formation, I would just like to see an obvious plan, thats when setbacks become easier to stomach because you know they are just bumps in the road, rather than the disarray we seem to have found ourselves in.

If he genuinely does have a transformation of style in mind, which he has mentioned numerous times and he will need to change to implement Brereton and Armstrong as strikers as he has discussed long term, the second half of the season has to be the time to phase it in.

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42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

One thing I find totally bizarre is, reading many peoples thoughts on how we restructure the squad, how blatantly obvious it is that Bradley Dack is suffering from what I would call Jordan Rhodes syndrome.

In spite at times of those around him, in spite of the team not playing in a way that necessarily suits him, he has consistently contributed to a very regular number of goals throughout his time here, to the point that it has become grossly underappreciated.



When Dack leaves, be in no doubt that it will leave a gargantuan hole in our team. People putting forward Rothwell as a potential replacement of kind, what has he ever done to even suggest that he can get near the consistent level of Dack in terms of getting us goals?



Suggesting selling him obviously also has to factor in that Mowbray could not expect all of the fee back to spend on numerous players. And how Dack is very much an exception in terms of unqualified successes from Mowbrays buys in the transfer market, with Brereton an example of what 7 million gets Mowbray.

I find Sheffield United an interesting comparison in terms of a fairly common reference point that I have seen our fans use. I don't see anything like the same level of consistency in terms of results, or the same obvious signs of a plan coming into place.

They finished 10th last season, doing well but running out of steam. Then came the transfer window, in which their gem David Brooks was sold, admittedly a player who hadnt got the consistency of goals as Dack has for us. But Wilder has progressed in the team in spite of a star player leaving. By spending 7 million on a striker who made his first start in the last game of the year, and has yet to score? No, but by signing a perfect dominant centre back to enhance them defensively, and Norwood, a superb Championship central midfielder to help dictate the play with Fleck. Added to that, he made a very shrewd signing I suggested we should have looked at in David McGoldrick and there are tangible improvements right down the spine of the team. Whereas bar Reed, all of our signings spend most of the time sat on their arses on the bench or in the stands.

His team has a clear identity, and no surplus of excess players lacking a specific role within it. You look at aspects of his team, 2 outside centre backs often contributing to attacks, 2 really reliable wing backs, 2 central midfielders who dominate possession and get Duffy in the hole. When Basham was sent off, it didnt seem to affect them one jot, if anything, their red card seemed to confuse our lot!

I am not saying we need to copy their style or their formation, I would just like to see an obvious plan, thats when setbacks become easier to stomach because you know they are just bumps in the road, rather than the disarray we seem to have found ourselves in.

If he genuinely does have a transformation of style in mind, which he has mentioned numerous times and he will need to change to implement Brereton and Armstrong as strikers as he has discussed long term, the second half of the season has to be the time to phase it in.

I couldn't agree more people keep comparing us with Sheff U purely because we are in the same boat that they were last year however we look more like 3-4 years behind them than 1 year. They have a clear way that they want to play and have signed players to suit that way whereas Mowbray talks a good game but how he talks and how we play don't add up and we therefore end up with a scatter gun approach to transfers, signing bits and pieces players who can do a job filling in here and there rather than making an actual difference. 

Edited by Ewood Ace
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2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I couldn't agree more people keep comparing us with Sheff U purely because we are in the same boat that they were last year however we look more like 3-4 years behind them than 1 year. They have a clear way that they want to play and have signed players to suit that way whereas Mowbray talks a good game but how he talks and how we play don't add up and we therefore end up with a scatter gun approach to transfers, signing bits and pieces players who can do a job filling in here and there rather than making an actual difference. 

Absolutely. People use the fact that we arent in immediate relegation danger as a badge of honour, and I would say that 15th place is the stat that matters and as a result his job shouldnt be in immediate danger. That being said, survival alone is not enough to justify a successful season, so he needs to be careful. If people want to consider survival a successful season, they should consider our wage budget and our transfer expenditure first. Mid table would potentially be progress IF there are obvious signs of longjevity, of a plan, of a base to build on. All have been totally lost within these last few months.

It has not only been our recent form over a couple of months in terms of results but also the manner of the results, the performances, the fragility following a set back, the defensive disorganisation, the over reliance on Dack and Graham to score all of our goals (bar Mulgrew set pieces) and also the lack of impact from our new signings.

So many stats back up the fact that the direction we are heading in is totally unclear. Mowbray has often implied that his loyalty to Smallwood and Evans and a more conservative set up is down to trust and reward from last season, but such a set up has led to a goals conceding column marrying up to our season under Coyle, as @blueboy3333 pointed out earlier. Why is he so reluctant to change?

Mowbray has often talked about phasing into a more possession based approach. I appreciate that Graham is good enough to faciliate at times the most aimless of punts forward, but it doesnt suit the numerous attacking signings Mowbray has made to be trying to scratch around playing the percentages, and Graham himself is technically sound. There are some direct teams in this league, teams like Millwall and Bolton who dont have budgets like ours. To have (when I last checked) played the most long balls in the entire league is pretty startling. Why mention these philosophies if you have quite clearly no intention of even moderately phasing them in?

He also occasionally flirts with the idea of 3 at the back. He tries it out seldomly, plays it for one game then reverts back straight away. Whats the point?! Its a complex formation that relies on the whole team knowing their jobs to a tee. He also signed Rodwell and bigged him up as a potential part of a back 3. Has he played him there once?!

As I mentioned earlier, Wilders signings at Sheffield United are signed with quite clear capability of slipping into their progressing side with no real adjustment. They are signed specifcally for the role Wilder wants. Ours arent.

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Mowbray left Coventry after a awful run a bit like coyle they went down to league two same season as we went down to league one 

We should have stayed up but at times we were too cautious under Mowbray and down we went the diffence this season is we had a cracking start and there are some poor sides at the bottom 

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2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Absolutely. People use the fact that we arent in immediate relegation danger as a badge of honour, and I would say that 15th place is the stat that matters and as a result his job shouldnt be in immediate danger. That being said, survival alone is not enough to justify a successful season, so he needs to be careful. If people want to consider survival a successful season, they should consider our wage budget and our transfer expenditure first. Mid table would potentially be progress IF there are obvious signs of longjevity, of a plan, of a base to build on. All have been totally lost within these last few months.

It has not only been our recent form over a couple of months in terms of results but also the manner of the results, the performances, the fragility following a set back, the defensive disorganisation, the over reliance on Dack and Graham to score all of our goals (bar Mulgrew set pieces) and also the lack of impact from our new signings.

So many stats back up the fact that the direction we are heading in is totally unclear. Mowbray has often implied that his loyalty to Smallwood and Evans and a more conservative set up is down to trust and reward from last season, but such a set up has led to a goals conceding column marrying up to our season under Coyle, as @blueboy3333 pointed out earlier. Why is he so reluctant to change?

Mowbray has often talked about phasing into a more possession based approach. I appreciate that Graham is good enough to faciliate at times the most aimless of punts forward, but it doesnt suit the numerous attacking signings Mowbray has made to be trying to scratch around playing the percentages, and Graham himself is technically sound. There are some direct teams in this league, teams like Millwall and Bolton who dont have budgets like ours. To have (when I last checked) played the most long balls in the entire league is pretty startling. Why mention these philosophies if you have quite clearly no intention of even moderately phasing them in?

He also occasionally flirts with the idea of 3 at the back. He tries it out seldomly, plays it for one game then reverts back straight away. Whats the point?! Its a complex formation that relies on the whole team knowing their jobs to a tee. He also signed Rodwell and bigged him up as a potential part of a back 3. Has he played him there once?!

As I mentioned earlier, Wilders signings at Sheffield United are signed with quite clear capability of slipping into their progressing side with no real adjustment. They are signed specifcally for the role Wilder wants. Ours arent.

Good post. Mowbray talks a good game and is obviously very passionate about his ideas, but those ideas don't seem to be translating onto the pitch at all. It often looks like a patched together combination of hoofball and counter attacking play. This is no knee jerk reaction, either. It's frustrating to see certain posters call this "knee jerk" when a lot of us were bringing up the same concerns last season, but were shouted down and ridiculed because we were beating terrible teams. Now we're facing better teams and the same criticisms come out, it's suddenly knee jerk.

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1 hour ago, DE. said:

Good post. Mowbray talks a good game and is obviously very passionate about his ideas, but those ideas don't seem to be translating onto the pitch at all. It often looks like a patched together combination of hoofball and counter attacking play. This is no knee jerk reaction, either. It's frustrating to see certain posters call this "knee jerk" when a lot of us were bringing up the same concerns last season, but were shouted down and ridiculed because we were beating terrible teams. Now we're facing better teams and the same criticisms come out, it's suddenly knee jerk.

Often buzzwords of time, faith and patience are used in the absence of constructive reasoning behind why things will turn around. I would stick with Mowbray for now but sadly that is not remotely based on any signs of progression or overcoming this long run of poor form that I have seen this season. It is solely based on his achievements prior to this season and the credit he still has in the bank from that.

There seems to be a lot of talk about moving to a back 3 on here. If that what Mowbray has in mind in terms of this supposed tactical amendment to see us play possession based football, he needs to have the balls to implement it consistently.

He needs to decide exactly how that will look, ie 2 number 10s off 1 striker, 1 10 off 2 strikers or even 3 central midfielders. Look at Sheffield United, everyone knows what they are doing, they play it week in, week out, everyones a perfect fit for their respective role. It is a very specialised formation that requires constant training and people who know what they are doing. Its not a formation to flick to and from with regularity. 

He also needs to then recruit for it. No point signing wingers afterwards and doing it half arsed. He signed Rodwell apparently to play as a centre back in a 3 and never has. Its mystifying. We would need new wing backs, Stevens and Baldock are hardly 10m signings but they know their jobs to a tee. Bell and Williams arent good enough and Bennett is not a wing back in a million years. We would also need reinforcements in central defence.

There would be undoubted growing pains with such a change but I suspect that supporters would give such bumps in the road far less worry with an obvious underlying plan beneath it all.

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18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Often buzzwords of time, faith and patience are used in the absence of constructive reasoning behind why things will turn around. I would stick with Mowbray for now but sadly that is not remotely based on any signs of progression or overcoming this long run of poor form that I have seen this season. It is solely based on his achievements prior to this season and the credit he still has in the bank from that.

There seems to be a lot of talk about moving to a back 3 on here. If that what Mowbray has in mind in terms of this supposed tactical amendment to see us play possession based football, he needs to have the balls to implement it consistently.

He needs to decide exactly how that will look, ie 2 number 10s off 1 striker, 1 10 off 2 strikers or even 3 central midfielders. Look at Sheffield United, everyone knows what they are doing, they play it week in, week out, everyones a perfect fit for their respective role. It is a very specialised formation that requires constant training and people who know what they are doing. Its not a formation to flick to and from with regularity. 

He also needs to then recruit for it. No point signing wingers afterwards and doing it half arsed. He signed Rodwell apparently to play as a centre back in a 3 and never has. Its mystifying. We would need new wing backs, Stevens and Baldock are hardly 10m signings but they know their jobs to a tee. Bell and Williams arent good enough and Bennett is not a wing back in a million years. We would also need reinforcements in central defence.

There would be undoubted growing pains with such a change but I suspect that supporters would give such bumps in the road far less worry with an obvious underlying plan beneath it all.

We are all passionate about our club, but I am in your camp. I look on here daily, watch when I can, and my first hand view of the Norwich game seemed to confirm TM has a very limited grasp of his buys, selection and substitutions. I think he is struggling in this league when there are better teams and more savvy managers.

Edited by Proudtobeblue&white
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I think the manager is more of a people manager than a tactical manager. You look at some of the things that have gone on behind the scenes and he fits in well in that regard.

 

A few examples is how he's managing the owners at the moment. He managed to get a decent investment from them in the summer where as previous managers have not.

 

Dack is also another example with his pratting around off the field with his court incident being a more recent issue. I don't think many managers would put up with that or help out either.

 

Sometimes I wonder if a very tactical number 2 who knows the best formations and tactics to play for the players we have would be far more valuable than a signing.

 

I think it was Ferguson who used to get new coaching staff every few years so that he could keep up with the times and keep the players engaged. He would then be the person manager and meet players families and keep them on the straight and narrow. He even had people spying on players activities away from the pitch.

 

I think that kind of setup would work well here in our current situation. The manager is a nice man from what it appears but does lack the tactical smarts at this level. Perhaps a compromise like this would get us progressing again.

 

I've heard people talk about a guy called Johnson from the under 21s? If he can fit this mould then I think he should be brought up along with the best u21 players and told here's your opportunity, sink or swim along with the youth players.

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39 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

I think the manager is more of a people manager than a tactical manager. You look at some of the things that have gone on behind the scenes and he fits in well in that regard.

 

A few examples is how he's managing the owners at the moment. He managed to get a decent investment from them in the summer where as previous managers have not.

 

Dack is also another example with his pratting around off the field with his court incident being a more recent issue. I don't think many managers would put up with that or help out either.

 

Sometimes I wonder if a very tactical number 2 who knows the best formations and tactics to play for the players we have would be far more valuable than a signing.

 

I think it was Ferguson who used to get new coaching staff every few years so that he could keep up with the times and keep the players engaged. He would then be the person manager and meet players families and keep them on the straight and narrow. He even had people spying on players activities away from the pitch.

 

I think that kind of setup would work well here in our current situation. The manager is a nice man from what it appears but does lack the tactical smarts at this level. Perhaps a compromise like this would get us progressing again.

 

I've heard people talk about a guy called Johnson from the under 21s? If he can fit this mould then I think he should be brought up along with the best u21 players and told here's your opportunity, sink or swim along with the youth players.

I think you make a good point here. However, Ferguson has to keep getting new number two because they kept getting manager jobs themselves, and also Mowbray is all about having people around him he trusts. I don’t see Venus going anywhere soon.

Johnson is Damien Johnson, ex Rovers player and current U23 manager.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_Johnson

 

01072E57-3F14-4B38-8B80-F7AECC7A1AA7.jpeg

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5 hours ago, Athlete said:

Mowbray left Coventry after a awful run a bit like coyle they went down to league two same season as we went down to league one 

We should have stayed up but at times we were too cautious under Mowbray and down we went the diffence this season is we had a cracking start and there are some poor sides at the bottom 

To be fair to Tony, SISU constantly stripped any players of value every season, and constantly downgraded the squad. Think of the period when Rhodes and Gestede were replaced by Defonseou and Brown. Except every transfer window.

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