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Neal

The mysterious case of Joe Rothwell.

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Surprised I still have hair left when it comes to this topic. What on earth does the lad have to do to get a run of games? Every time he's played he's arguably been MOM and yet the next game he's straight back on the bench. What does that do to the lad's morale? Especially having to sit there whilst Conway and Bennett comically run around the pitch, not effecting the game. Does it show poor man management skills from our manager? I think so. Why sign him if he's not going to play him? Why critisise him after clearly being our best player against Wednesday? Can he not see that he's clearly the player with the most ability at Rovers?

 

I see it like this, he's put together such a poor defense that he's too sh*t scared of playing more attacking players because they will give his awful back 4 less protection. 

 

To sum up, it's a complete waste of talent, not on the players behalf but on the managers because he doesn't have the ability to address our defensive issues. Combine that with blind favouritism and you have a sh*t show of poor team selection, poor performances and poor results. 

 

In my opinion the lad is one of the best naturally gifted footballers I've seen at Rovers for some time, the sort of player you should probably build a midfield around. Just goes to show that throwing obscene amounts of money around on players to get quality is not always the way to do it. It helps though, when you realise that you have unearthed a real gem of player that you have manager capable of seeing that talent and getting the best out of him rather than being useless on the bench. 

 

I wanted to keep this post on the topic of the player rather than the manager but when he's playing such an integral role in ruining a player of this quality's career it's simply too hard to ignore. Do us all a favour and play the man for christ sake. Your long ball, tepid, methodless football does not work in this league anymore and it won't work next season. Play some players in midfield who we can actually play through rather than miss out. 

 

I really don't know how this one is going to turn out but at the moment it's the manager I'd rather see leave than a player like Joe Rothwell. 

 

What's your thoughts on this one? I'm frustrated, p*ssed off and mostly confused by the manager. 

 

 

Edited by Neal

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I’m beginning to think sell Dack and play Rothwell in that role. He’s scared every team he’s been up against at this level, whereas Dack today, and for quite a while, might’ve well have stayed in Dubai. We play a good, on the deck, quick pass and run game when Rothwell is on.

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Sadly, Rothwell wont be a regular starter until he abandons everything that's good about his game and reverts to an industrious, defensive minded, safety first type of player.

Or Mowbray gets sacked.

Same for Chapman as well.

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Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Rothwell has no long term future here whilst Mowbray is manager.

I think your spot on. However if we continue like this Mowbray won’t be here much past October of next season. He makes absolutely no attempt to rectify the defensive problems. Not one of the guys who made the training ground noisy this week can defend.

At Coventry he needed a defence and didn’t address it and he hasn’t done here. He doesn’t appear to reflect on his failings and address them. He appears to have an ability to blame failure on the junior members of the squad whilst never once applying the same criteria to the more senior staff ( mulgrew ,Conway Bennett William). We are in free fall as were  Coventry .He had an appalling win ratio at Celtic until he was removed and while he is respected in boro they went into  a  downward spiral as well

He needs to stop talking and start doing or he will be out if a job before the turn of the year.

 Mowbray has an immense amount of footballing experience but appears to learn nothing from it.

I don’t remember who said this but 

experience is directly proportional to the intelligence that’s exposed to it send a cabbage around the world it won’t come back an expert in geography it will come back a cabbage

 

PS I really hope this is not true because of all the recent managers I would love him to succeed.

 

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11 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Sadly, Rothwell wont be a regular starter until he abandons everything that's good about his game and reverts to an industrious, defensive minded, safety first type of player.

Or Mowbray gets sacked.

Same for Chapman as well.

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. 

This is what is starting to really annoy me about Mowbray. He goes on about Rothwell and Chapman having problems with their game in relation to the defensive aspect, all the time while the players he picks don't offer the same attacking threat and we still manage to concede left, right and centre. He should be encouraging the likes of Rothwell and Chapman not stifling them into plodders. 

They will never be able to be as good at attacking if he has them worrying about and tracking the opposition left back. Its bullshit. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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12 minutes ago, Boroblue said:

 

 

PS I really hope this is not true because of all the recent managers I would love him to succeed.

 

So would I. I really like Tony. Best thing that's happened to the Rovers for years.

But..........his management skills are sadly lacking at present. And, what'smore really worrying, he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes. He thinks he is the bees' knees. A little humility and inward searching is what Tony needs.

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I'm not sure why Mowbray bothers buying/loaning flair players when he is clearly terrified of actually using them. 

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To go against the grain slightly...

He’s still very raw.

Not saying he shouldn’t be starting to iron that out or improve us, mind.

He’s got quality on the ball, and a fantastic ability to go past people, good passing etc.

But everything, all the time, is just 100mph.

I know it might be the desire to impress that puts this into his game, but if he could just slow it down sometimes (as Dack does well), just take his time and use his passing and ability when it matters then I think he’d find himself running down less blind alleys and out of position or in less situations where he gives away a daft ball by overplaying.

Time on the ball is something the really good players look like they always have - in my opinion Joe always, and I mean always, looks panicked.

Edited by S8 & Blue

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Rothwell when on the pitch has been our most influential player for months now. It’s clear cut. For that reason he MUST be a starter. Yet he isn’t. It’s a shame, a joke.

If I was him I’d be livid and I’d be seriously considering my future. 

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I do think some fans overrate Rothwell. But TM underrates him far worse.

Some say he's our best player. He isn't. He's highly promising, has great assets and currently deserves a long run in the team (and has done before, a few times).

We should remember he has zero goals and two assists though, one of which only came very recently. In 26 appearances. Yes, I know a great many of those are sub appearances. 6 were starts. He had a further 3 starts in the League Cup against weaker opposition, and a sub appearance in the FA.

Brereton has come in for a lot of flak, rightly so for plenty of reasons, but one of the reasons has been his zero goals return. In 21 appearances, with 3 starts. Yes he's a striker but he's been mostly played in midfield. He's also 5 years younger than Joe. He has an assist (two really as he won a penalty) and incorrectly had two goals disallowed.

Bell has 3 goals from LB.

None of this is to say that Brereton or Bell are better players, not at all. They're not. I'm just pointing out that he, so far, hasn't shown enough end product to be classed as our best player. I feel the reason for that is partly that he can be a bit reckless.

What he does though, is completely change the way we play and put us on the front foot. Part of that is the reckless energy he plays with, but he also has an excellent turn of pace and some fine technical touches. Needs to be starting regularly and it's very worrying he isn't.

He's going to be disillusioned and some other team is going to spot his talent, the fact that he isn't highly rated, then put two and two together to realise they can buy him for less than he's worth.

Edited by bluebruce

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Good post.

I think we can all agree that Joe needs more time "on the grass".

But for me, with our defensive frailties, it is still a massive gamble right now as to whether he can create more points than he may cost us, especially in the position we use him.

 

Joe's the ace in the hole though if we lose Bradley Dack.

Secretly I think he could turn out to be at least as good a No. 10. as Dacky.

 

His lack of shagging models/knee bending BBQs/fatness etc does concern me from a cult hero standpoint mind.

That shit matters.

 

But there's a dilemma here about whether Mowbray is to try everything to get a result in every single game until the end of the season and finish nearer the top of mid-table - steadiness, pragmatism/trusting old heads/players that have a record of contributing will all come into that...

Or if we just blood the raw lads and potentially finish 18th.


Whether flipping the approach is more likely to lead to the opposite outcome, who bloody knows, but current league position does seem to be the barometer for some that have forgotten how well we've actually been doing this season. You'd be hard pressed to criticise the manager for living within himself a little for a better showing in the league position history books.

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't, inneee.

 

 

I think we all want to aim for somewhere in the middle though - but I won't shit myself if Rothwell doesn't start games against sides that are going to dominate the ball.

 

BUT I'll begin to become sceptical if it isn't obvious that is he is starting to become more central to our plans going forwards if the squad is to remain the same after summer.

Would take a hell of a finished product to replace him.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Shit recruitment though Mowbray, hasn't he?

 

Edited by S8 & Blue

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I’ve said it elsewhere, hopefully it bears repeating; Rothwell I think is very similar to Rochina. A lad with abundant talent who is exciting to watch & makes things happen but at a cost...the cost being a tendency to over elaborate, to run down blind alleys & make a poor choice as to when to play a final ball.

We couldn’t find a place for Ruben rightly or wrongly & we seem to be going down the same road with Rothwell. Last week at Wednesday, he made a goal & always looked to make something happen. Yesterday, the 3 subs all made bright contributions and nearly rescued a point out of what at one point looked like being a proper toasting by Villa.

My observation based on TM’s radio chat last week & how he’s used him all season is that he doesn’t appear to trust him to carry out instructions. I’d be tempted to start Rothwell & Brereton every game till the end of the season to see if they can do it week in, week out & then at least we’d all have some hard evidence one way or another ready for next season.

if I was Rothwell, I’d be a bit twitchy as to my future at Blackburn Rovers.

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We are going to ‘finish 18th’ with the old guard playing anyway  - 4 points from 30 tells us that.

So what’s to lose playing Rothwell et al? It’ll give the fans a bit of pleasure in the arse end of a petered out season, if nowt else.

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12 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. 

This is what is starting to really annoy me about Mowbray. He goes on about Rothwell and Chapman having problems with their game in relation to the defensive aspect, all the time while the players he picks don't offer the same attacking threat and we still manage to concede left, right and centre. He should be encouraging the likes of Rothwell and Chapman not stifling them into plodders. 

They will never be able to be as good at attacking if he has them worrying about and tracking the opposition left back. Its bullshit. 

Pretty much this. 

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5 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Good post.

I think we can all agree that Joe needs more time "on the grass".

But for me, with our defensive frailties, it is still a massive gamble right now as to whether he can create more points than he may cost us, especially in the position we use him.

 

Joe's the ace in the hole though if we lose Bradley Dack.

Secretly I think he could turn out to be at least as good a No. 10. as Dacky.

 

His lack of shagging models/knee bending BBQs/fatness etc does concern me from a cult hero standpoint mind.

That shit matters.

 

But there's a dilemma here about whether Mowbray is to try everything to get a result in every single game until the end of the season and finish nearer the top of mid-table - steadiness, pragmatism/trusting old heads/players that have a record of contributing will all come into that...

Or if we just blood the raw lads and potentially finish 18th.


Whether flipping the approach is more likely to lead to the opposite outcome, who bloody knows, but current league position does seem to be the barometer for some that have forgotten how well we've actually been doing this season. You'd be hard pressed to criticise the manager for living within himself a little for a better showing in the league position history books.

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't, inneee.

 

 

I think we all want to aim for somewhere in the middle though - but I won't shit myself if Rothwell doesn't start games against sides that are going to dominate the ball.

 

BUT I'll begin to become sceptical if it isn't obvious that is he is starting to become more central to our plans going forwards if the squad is to remain the same after summer.

Would take a hell of a finished product to replace him.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Shit recruitment though Mowbray, hasn't he?

 

Is it??? We're safe pretty much and have taken 4 points from 30 (I think). The sh*t heads he's playing at the moment aren't bringing in any points... In fact, I'd call it anything but a gamble. I'd call it necessary experience for him to be ready for next season. 

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12 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think you have hit the nail on the head here. 

This is what is starting to really annoy me about Mowbray. He goes on about Rothwell and Chapman having problems with their game in relation to the defensive aspect, all the time while the players he picks don't offer the same attacking threat and we still manage to concede left, right and centre. He should be encouraging the likes of Rothwell and Chapman not stifling them into plodders. 

They will never be able to be as good at attacking if he has them worrying about and tracking the opposition left back. Its bullshit. 

I wish Mowbray would spend more time publicly admonishing our defenders for not being defensive-minded enough, instead of our most creative midfielder(s).

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To play Rothwell you'd either have to drop Dack or play two Number 10's. 

One of the many reasons our defence is so appalling is that the full-backs get so little cover and are constantly exposed - the brave new world of 4-2-3-1. Rothwell wouldn't help with that because he's not a winger/wide midfielder with a great footballing brain. Conway in his pomp was the perfect WM/winger because he could create and help the full-back. 

After hating it for so long I'd probably go with 3 at the back. With quick mobile defenders who know how to defend (NOT Rodwell, Williams, Mulgrew) 3 at the back can work just not with the players we've got. Then you could play Rothwell just behind the striker alongside Dack. 

Mowbray needs to start playing to players strengths instead of buying players and playing them out of position. 

 

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1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

I’ve said it elsewhere, hopefully it bears repeating; Rothwell I think is very similar to Rochina. A lad with abundant talent who is exciting to watch & makes things happen but at a cost...the cost being a tendency to over elaborate, to run down blind alleys & make a poor choice as to when to play a final ball.

We couldn’t find a place for Ruben rightly or wrongly & we seem to be going down the same road with Rothwell. Last week at Wednesday, he made a goal & always looked to make something happen. Yesterday, the 3 subs all made bright contributions and nearly rescued a point out of what at one point looked like being a proper toasting by Villa.

My observation based on TM’s radio chat last week & how he’s used him all season is that he doesn’t appear to trust him to carry out instructions. I’d be tempted to start Rothwell & Brereton every game till the end of the season to see if they can do it week in, week out & then at least we’d all have some hard evidence one way or another ready for next season.

if I was Rothwell, I’d be a bit twitchy as to my future at Blackburn Rovers.

I don't disagree but surely Mowbray would have known this from the scouting reports before signing him. As far as I'm concerned it's another sad indictment of Mowbrays ad hoc transfer dealings.

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S8 and Blue - yes TM's recruitment has been appalling. 

How many players have improved/enhanced the team? 

I can think of 5 - Smallwood Downing and Dack last season and Rothwell and Reid this season. From 4 windows that's a pretty appalling record. Add in one of those players isn't even used now properly and another is out on loan and only shone because of injuries and you are really looking at poor recruitment. 

You could also consider how many players are decent but for every Bell or Antonsson - both of whom stretch the credibility of decent - there's a Samuel or Caddis or Davenport. When you have so many flops and you're in 2 minds as to whether the decent players are actually decent you have to question his recruitment. 

Then there's the expensive flops running at one a season - funds we can't really afford to waste. Last season was Whittingham this season it's Bereton. It shows even when given money TM can't spend it well. 

So yeah TM is terrible at recruiting. 

 

 

Edited by Blue blood

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19 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

S8 and Blue - yes TM's recruitment has been appalling. 

How many players have improved/enhanced the team? 

I can think of 5 - Smallwood Downing and Dack last season and Rothwell and Reid this season. From 4 windows that's a pretty appalling record. Add in one of those players isn't even used now properly and another is out on loan and only shone because of injuries and you are really looking at poor recruitment. 

You could also consider how many players are decent but for every Bell or Antonsson - both of whom stretch the credibility of decent - there's a Samuel or Caddis or Davenport. When you have so many flops and you're in 2 minds as to whether the decent players are actually decent you have to question his recruitment. 

Then there's the expensive flops running at one a season - funds we can't really afford to waste. Last season was Whittingham this season it's Bereton. It shows even when given money TM can't spend it well. 

So yeah TM is terrible at recruiting. 

 

 

You seriously think Smallwood is a good signing? 

You don't rate Bell? 

You don't rate Davenport yet youve never seen him play. 

Is this a wind up?? 

I agree recruitment has been poor mentioning some of the wrong players here.

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Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

You seriously think Smallwood is a good signing? 

You don't rate Bell? 

You don't rate Davenport yet youve never seen him play. 

Is this a wind up?? 

I agree recruitment has been poor mentioning some of the wrong players here.

Smallwood was a good signing for last year, just what we needed someone to get stuck in. Not sure he is championship quality bar more than a squad player but he was signed last year to get us promoted which he contributed well to. 

Bell I'm torn on and perhaps not the best example to use. Think he has the attributes but performance and concentration wise - plus reports on here - are mixed at best. Perhaps Armstrong this year would be a better useage. 

Davenport I used because he hasn't played or contributed anything. Same with Chapman. Am sure he has some talent but if they can't or won't be allowed on the pitch they're a poor signing just wasting money. 

That we are differing over examples used rather than the point itself points to how bad recruitment is. 

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9 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

1) But for me, with our defensive frailties, it is still a massive gamble right now as to whether he can create more points than he may cost us, especially in the position we use him.

2) But there's a dilemma here about whether Mowbray is to try everything to get a result in every single game until the end of the season and finish nearer the top of mid-table - steadiness, pragmatism/trusting old heads/players that have a record of contributing will all come into that...

Or if we just blood the raw lads and potentially finish 18th.


Whether flipping the approach is more likely to lead to the opposite outcome, who bloody knows,  but current league position does seem to be the barometer for some that have forgotten how well we've actually been doing this season. You'd be hard pressed to criticise the manager for living within himself a little for a better showing in the league position history books.

 

 

There are 2 aspects here that confuse me a little:

1) We are in a position where no matter what wide man combination we have used, we seem to concede goals. Why is there a myth that Rothwell is so much more defensively irresponsible than everyone else? Armstrong is no better from that aspect and he didnt deserve to walk back into the team yesterday.

2) Of course he will be judged by his league finish! That said, your statement implies that experimenting will result in a lower league position. The results with the status quo in the last 10 games suggest otherwise.

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