Mowbray: Stay or go?

[tomphil]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Very good post.

That is what happened, I cant exactly recall the number of windows the 'build' was over.

We as fans are treated as Mushroom Goldfish, which is some cases is just about spot on.

Similar stuff trotted out in Bowyers time I think he said he needed 6 windows to bring in players good enough to challenge but also get rid of loads of unwanted overpaid and largely useless players.  A fair enough assumption at the time but we know what happened part way through that.

[Bigdoggsteel]

10 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Can't disagree with much if what's been said over the last page or so, though I would add that perhaps the confused structure of the club brings into sharper focus what a decent job TM has done in spite of it all.

 

Well, decent is the word,but we need someone to do a great or even very good job. Happily plodding along in midtable and pretending everything is fine only enables the owners and their disfunctional method of running a club. To do a good or great job would require someone telling them in no uncertain terms that they need to make decisions quicker. 

This is why we end up signing random players on deadline day. I don't blame Mowbray really, I mean the season we went down he was on the ball. The thing was we had money due to players leaving  so wheeling and dealing was straightforward. Plus we were Blackburn rovers in league 1. This is why we struggle in the championship all things being equal with other clubs. There is a reason why we have never really even been in the play off places since being relegated. (I'm ignoring under Kean cos it outrageous he was still in the job)

Edited April 22, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Paul Mani]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

Souey was a winner. Finishing with 60 points this season would have been as bad as finishing with 50.

When Souness was approached by Newcastle, Rovers couldn’t believe their luck. He’d completely run out of ideas and had been flirting with the likes of Spurs for 6 months before he went. They practically drove him up there...

[Ewood Ace]

6 hours ago, Biz said:

Why criticise the manager or the players then?

If it’s all such a pointless exercise under these owners, why do we even bother turning up.

Not for the first time you have totally missed the point that I was making. Do you do it on purpose?

[Mattyblue]

20 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

When Souness was approached by Newcastle, Rovers couldn’t believe their luck. He’d completely run out of ideas and had been flirting with the likes of Spurs for 6 months before he went. They practically drove him up there...

It was time for a change, but he was a fantastic manager for us and exactly what we needed when he was appointed.

[JBiz]

8 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Not for the first time you have totally missed the point that I was making. Do you do it on purpose?

You took my point and turned it into “venkys out” mate.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Biz said:

You took my point and turned it into “venkys out” mate.

I was merely pointing out that no matter how much cosmetic work takes place on the face of it the rot is still underneath. People use to laud Bowyer with bringing stability to the club. We are in a nearly in a similar position to what we were in under Bowyer top half (or in this case mid table) with a promising squad and look how it all ended with our best player being sold, cheap options being signed and relegation. The simple fact is Mowbray is powerless just like Bowyer, Lambert and Coyle before him if the owners decide to do similar again and with these owners nothing would surprise me.

[JBiz]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

I was merely pointing out that no matter how much cosmetic work takes place on the face of it the rot is still underneath. People use to laud Bowyer with bringing stability to the club. We are in a nearly in a similar position to what we were in under Bowyer top half (or in this case mid table) with a promising squad and look how it all ended with our best player being sold, cheap options being signed and relegation. The simple fact is Mowbray is powerless just like Bowyer, Lambert and Coyle before him if the owners decide to do similar again and with these owners nothing would surprise me.

Why are you criticising the manager constantly then if he’s irrelevant? After all this is his thread! 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

When Souness was approached by Newcastle, Rovers couldn’t believe their luck. He’d completely run out of ideas and had been flirting with the likes of Spurs for 6 months before he went. They practically drove him up there...

Yeah he'd lost the plot completely. It was a shame because he'd done great things for us previously.

[DE.]

Dominic Matteo as our dynamic left winger. Good times.

[tomphil]

I was a massive Souness fan, still am but he did lose the plot and i'd have sacked him earlier so whichever agent manufactured that Newcastle move and 4 mill compen was a genius even though it probably wasn't done for the benefit of BRFC.

Just goes to show though no matter how good the manager and no matter the success and how much the fans like them there tends to be a shelf life. But when a manager is winning games again his shelf life clearly isn't up whoever he is.

I feel this season with TM the turn around recently has a lot to do with horses for courses finally and putting the right people in the right places to do the right jobs.  Its meant dropping Mulgrew and breaking up his favoured midfield combo but so be it I pray he's learnt from it and sticks to that ethos from the off next season.

Edited April 22, 2019 by tomphil

[Paul Mani]

16 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well, decent is the word,but we need someone to do a great or even very good job. Happily plodding along in midtable and pretending everything is fine only enables the owners and their disfunctional method of running a club. To do a good or great job would require someone telling them in no uncertain terms that they need to make decisions quicker. 

This is why we end up signing random players on deadline day. I don't blame Mowbray really, I mean the season we went down he was on the ball. The thing was we had money due to players leaving  so wheeling and dealing was straightforward. Plus we were Blackburn rovers in league 1. This is why we struggle in the championship all things being equal with other clubs. There is a reason why we have never really even been in the play off places since being relegated. (I'm ignoring under Kean cos it outrageous he was still in the job)

Mowbray has done a great job (so far). It’s not easy to come into a crack pot club, revitalise it, steer it away from certain doom and towards success.

Those who insist that going up last season was a nothing achievement are wrong. Especially for a club with our problems. Look at Sunderland? Money is not the only factor.

I don’t call 59 points with two games to go in our first season back in the Championship ‘plodding’. Preston are a seasoned Championship team now and are perceived to have had an amazing season. They’re currently 1pt above us on 60.

The key here is that we must continue to progress on this upwards curve. It is true that things will get harder now because we don’t have the funds to compete with the top teams in this league. Add the three who will drop down from the Prem and this gets even harder. Add to that the points you made about Venkys speed of work which are further barriers. 

BUT the manager has been brave enough to stick his neck out and say he wants to challenge at the top of the Championship next season. In truth, regardless of the circus around him and funding restrictions he will carry the can of we’re not in and around the playoffs.

[blueboy3333]

59 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Those who insist that going up last season was a nothing achievement are wrong. Especially for a club with our problems.

What, the biggest budget in L1 and being allowed to keep all the players he wanted from the Championship team? Some problems. 

His skill was in creating an environment where those players could thrive (eventually) and get the club promoted. 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

BUT the manager has been brave enough to stick his neck out and say he wants to challenge at the top of the Championship next season.

That's not bravery, anyone can say that. Bravery is dropping your favourites, being ruthless and getting better players.

Bravery is also not playing with two holding DM's and not attacking teams at home. As Chris Wilder said, you don't win anything going sideways and back. 

I look forward to Mowbray's brave new world nest season. 

[Paul Mani]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

What, the biggest budget in L1 and being allowed to keep all the players he wanted from the Championship team? Some problems. 

His skill was in creating an environment where those players could thrive (eventually) and get the club promoted. 

Sunderland and Barnsley have the biggest budget in League 1 too...they’re not top of the league. Sunderland are not even top 2. I’m not saying we weren’t expecting to get out but promotions involve a lot more than cash.

He was fortunate that the club backed him with the wages of some key Championship players. But that’s only half the job. You’ve then got to persuade those players to stay in League 1 when they have other options..

You’re right about creating the right environment though. The same environment which helps them to dig in and finish strongly.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Sunderland and Barnsley have the biggest budget in League 1 too...they’re not top of the league. Sunderland are not even top 2. I’m not saying we weren’t expecting to get out but promotions involve a lot more than cash.

He was fortunate that the club backed him with the wages of some key Championship players. But that’s only half the job. You’ve then got to persuade those players to stay in League 1 when they have other options..

You’re right about creating the right environment though. The same environment which helps them to dig in and finish strongly.

Which is what I alluded to by saying he created the right environment. 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

That's not bravery, anyone can say that. Bravery is dropping your favourites, being ruthless and getting better players.

Bravery is also not playing with two holding DM's and not attacking teams at home. As Chris Wilder said, you don't win anything going sideways and back. 

I look forward to Mowbray's brave new world nest season. 

It’s brave to put yourself up as a target when you know there will be at least 10 teams with better budgets than you next season.

But for injuries to key players we prob would’ve finished just outside of the playoffs this season. So regardless of you, me or anyone else saying he should’ve played this person or that person, we’ve done well. Either way, we are always going to be shopping for the Dacks and Rothwells of this world. If we wanted to buy a Dack this summer we wouldn’t be able to afford him.

So, on the back foot, Mowbray is being brave. Because in spite all of this if he doesn’t get us into that position then you, me and everyone else will be unhappy! 

[SBlue]

49 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

That's not bravery, anyone can say that. Bravery is dropping your favourites, being ruthless and getting better players.

Bravery is also not playing with two holding DM's and not attacking teams at home. As Chris Wilder said, you don't win anything going sideways and back. 

I look forward to Mowbray's brave new world nest season. 

We could feasibly be four points behind where the Blades were at a similar stage in their development come the end of the season.

They had a bad run last year too, and a lot of their fans also had some myopism regarding the manager...

Look how that turned out.

We are not going sideways.

Edited April 23, 2019 by S8 & Blue

[philipl]

Mowbray's post match comments encouraging.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

We could feasibly be four points behind where the Blades were at a similar stage in their development come the end of the season.

They had a bad run last year too, and a lot of their fans also had some myopism regarding the manager...

Look how that turned out.

We are not going sideways.

I don’t get the point about our negativity either tbh. Every game I’ve watched we’ve created chances and been ‘in’ the game. I can’t think of a single one where we’ve parked the bus? In fact, one of my biggest criticisms of Mowbray is that at times we’ve capitulated away from home because we’ve been chasing teams instead of keeping it tight and waiting for that one chance.

We’ve lacked quality in the final third and Mowbray went on record to say he was looking to integrate more technical players so that we no longer had to rely on direct balls into Graham.

I think Rothwell, Dack, Armstrong, Chapman and Butterworth will cause any teams problems. I also think that B.B. will benefit from a more fluid style of play. Travis, Rodwell, Davenport (supposed to be class) and Evans can cover off CM with Buckley pushing them.

Still a GK, CB, LB and Striker for me.

I believe the manager will sort this.

[philipl]

Successful teams are based on a solid defence.

Yes there are better keepers than Raya but they cost the GDP of a small country and still make mistakes. Yes get someone to challenge Raya but remember Raya was looking increasingly solid before WBA and he has been behind a very iffy defense all season. So get a gk to challenge Raya but don't blow the budget as this is not priority.

Beast of a centre half is priority.

Much as I like Bell and Nyambe we need two full backs who know their business and are reliable if only to give those two real pressure to make them perform.

I wouldn't faddle around in midfield unless someone is leaving. Looking like we have real talent coming through here.

Yes we need a real forward to cover/challenge DG.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, philipl said:

Successful teams are based on a solid defence.

Yes there are better keepers than Raya but they cost the GDP of a small country and still make mistakes. Yes get someone to challenge Raya but remember Raya was looking increasingly solid before WBA and he has been behind a very iffy defense all season. So get a gk to challenge Raya but don't blow the budget as this is not priority.

Beast of a centre half is priority.

Much as I like Bell and Nyambe we need two full backs who know their business and are reliable if only to give those two real pressure to make them perform.

I wouldn't faddle around in midfield unless someone is leaving. Looking like we have real talent coming through here.

Yes we need a real forward to cover/challenge DG.

Agree with everything other than Nyambe. I think there’s a real player in there. Additionally he has all of the physical characteristics.

Bell is a League 1 defender imo. I’m not even sure I’d keep him as back up. Try and move him, Smallwood and Samuel on. Maybe Mulgrew too who is on good money and looks like he’s run his race?  Let Leutwiler, Gladwin and Downing run their contracts out.

Maybe give Conway a year to support Rothwell, Dack, Arma, Butterworth and Chapman? 

[Don Said]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Nyambe. I think there’s a real player in there. Additionally he has all of the physical characteristics.

Bell is a League 1 defender imo.

Agree. My view -

Nyambe could be a cracking right back. Great attributes and has got better season on season. His defensive positioning and composure, his original weaknesses in my view, have drastically improved. Back up would be nice - somebody capable of coming in to do a steady job as an actual right back.

Bell might make a decent wing back but he'll never be good enough to defend as a left back in a 4 at the back formation. Really think we need to sign a first choice left back as a priority this summer.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Sunderland and Barnsley have the biggest budget in League 1 too...they’re not top of the league. Sunderland are not even top 2. I’m not saying we weren’t expecting to get out but promotions involve a lot more than cash.

He was fortunate that the club backed him with the wages of some key Championship players. But that’s only half the job. You’ve then got to persuade those players to stay in League 1 when they have other options..

You’re right about creating the right environment though. The same environment which helps them to dig in and finish strongly.

Sunderland have been unfortunate in that Luton have been unstoppable. Shrewsbury last season started out in the same manner but ultimately fell away, Luton haven't.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 minutes ago, Don Said said:

Agree. My view -

Nyambe could be a cracking right back. Great attributes and has got better season on season. His defensive positioning and composure, his original weaknesses in my view, have drastically improved. Back up would be nice - somebody capable of coming in to do a steady job as an actual right back.

Bell might make a decent wing back but he'll never be good enough to defend as a left back in a 4 at the back formation. Really think we need to sign a first choice left back as a priority this summer.

I agree about Nyambe, there's a solid right back in there, it just needs bringing out.