Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bigdoggsteel

Mogga's India Trip 2019

Recommended Posts

Just now, K-Hod said:

Apart from Mowbray himself¬†saying promotion was the aim? ūüėŹ

You'll get at least half the league (and then some) saying that top 6 and/or promotion is the target. Not many come out and say that mid-table is the aim when, in reality, we are barely at that stage, in spite of the encouraging signs from this season.

Three promotion spots up for grabs. Six teams or so in serious contention. Another 6-10 wanting to be in and around it. The target (in this case, top 6) is all good and well, but it's the light at the end of the tunnel. We are a couple of seasons away from that I think, and that's if everything goes to plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

I think the real plan is to get us in serious contention in 2-3 seasons. There are no soundbites coming out of the club that make any of us believe that we're going to be serious promotion contenders until then, and based on that, I don't fully expect us to be, either. They want to do it the Norwich/Burnley way... In other words, low-budget, but smart-budget. Doing a Sheffield Wednesday (or a Rovers under Kean!) is obviously a no-go for them.

Nobody needs to warm to the owners after everything that's happened, but looking forwards, it seems like a sensible philosophy to me.

It is and its been laid down by auditors and probably TM and his team, no complaints on that score after the mess or before so I don't know why you are dragging it in that direction.

My point that still stands is now it's time to add quality for a window or two to help that building process. We've seen before under Bowyer that just trying to make a team worth value before promotion keeps you stable for a while but you just end up treading water trying to get this conveyor belt of talent to sell going.  Then the sales start, sometimes inevitable and you go backwards all of a sudden at a great rate of knots.

The Burnley model signed players for specific jobs and got in quality in key areas and yet they had to withstand a regular big player leaving but money was reinvested in horses for courses first and foremost not potential future sales all across the park with other gaps plugged by youth and freebies.

We might well have a plan of 3 or 4 windows and no one in their right mind should expect us to be right in the mix all season next season but we need to be taking bold steps to get there whilst this squad has value in it already AND future potential.  A couple of astute signings in key areas who might cost a bob or two but might be late 20s and not expected to double in money overnight if they do well, that was the point.

Edited by tomphil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, OnePhilT said:

You'll get at least half the league (and then some) saying that top 6 and/or promotion is the target. Not many come out and say that mid-table is the aim when, in reality, we are barely at that stage, in spite of the encouraging signs from this season.

Three promotion spots up for grabs. Six teams or so in serious contention. Another 6-10 wanting to be in and around it. The target (in this case, top 6) is all good and well, but it's the light at the end of the tunnel. We are a couple of seasons away from that I think, and that's if everything goes to plan.

In fairness (and please don't ban me, joke :)) Mowbray did say last year mid table was the aim.

Ya, I think we are going for a slow build, but how will the reaction be on here next season to say.. 9th? I suppose it depends on how we end up there. 

I just question our bottle when it comes to the game that would break into the top 6. We haven't done it since we went down. I'm not including any of Steve keans tenure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely we should be "going for it" whatever the scenario?

#tonyhadadream

Edited by DeeCee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same budget? Same wages level and funds! Think Tony is lucky most the league would want that bar the parachute gang.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most people said top 6 was too early last season and that it was all about consolidation. They said next season was the time to be realistically pushing for top 6.

I suspect the same posters will say this season it is still one year too early, a slow build is needed and the following season will be the push for top 6.

Then it will be "we can't compete financially so it will take longer"

We will never get to the season in those people's eyes when we should be pushing for top 6.

Good recruitment and good coaching can get you a long way in this league. Top 6 has to be the aim from the start in the upcoming season.

 

 

Edited by Hasta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A bit late to talk about making us sustainable when we're already in such incredible debt. Sustainability plans should have been enacted years ago. The only way we get out of this black hole now is by getting promoted, and doing it on the cheap won't be easy without a very good and a very brave manager. I'm not even sure the club can maintain Championship status by being sustainable. It would all come down to the manager and very shrewd transfer dealings, neither of which we've been too hot on since our esteemed owners darkened the doors of Ewood.

Obviously theoretically running the club at a sustainable level is the ideal goal, and it's what Jack himself wanted for us, but we're already working on one hell of a handicap thanks to nearly a decade of disastrous mismanagement. So much so that it almost makes wanting to make the club self-sustainable now laughable and pointless. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The xyz year thing just keeps getting reset every so often if we sell a player it'll get reset again we've already been told so many windows yet purposely stood still in the last one.

If the aim is to steadily build for a tilt at the top you can't waste any windows at all even if it's a 3 year plan,  which we are a year or two into now depending on which summer you believe the clock was set.

Burnley keep getting dragged up as the slow build example but once Howe set the ball rolling then Dyche took over how long did it actually take ?   Their sole aim was building a side and infracstructure to get up not to just  breed players to sell or rescue unfortunate/ageing or players who'd lost their way.

We are the most stable we've ever been now under Venkys and Mowbray and co have got us in a healthy position on and off the park and value wise.  No boom or bust but time to turn it up a notch in terms of recruitment. 

Edited by tomphil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Burnely's slow build model is nothing ore than making their ownership of Pl money while doing the minimum possible not to get relegated. Its worked so far but next season they are down - any takers on a wager?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair play to Waggott for good (on the face of it honest) communication and thorough explanation of the process in India.

If it's true, it has to be positive that the owners were asking about THE BLIP.

 

I will still wait to see the evidence in the transfer market but my ST money is in my pocket ready to purchase.

Over to you Tony.

Inspire us please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

 

If it's true, it has to be positive that the owners were asking about THE BLIP.

What, the feckin 8 year blip? Knobs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think getting in the top six next season is unrealistic, and should be the target, and I am sure it will be.

I guess the key question is what is the minimum acceptable position where heads will roll if not achieved. I would say that's 9th-10th.

Based on the other teams in the league and the inherent highly unpredictable nature of the Championship I think the above is reasonable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be expecting top 10 as a bare minimum as progress but we really should be doing all we can to make that push into the top 6. if its true we have a similar transfer budget as last season, this is not an unrealistic aim considering many teams would love to have been able to spend 20 million in the last couple of seasons.

I dont think Dack will be sold this season despite the efforts of his agent simply because (and this is a rare plus for the Venkies), they always hold out for top money for our biggest stars. Valuation of Dack seems to be around the 18 million mark and I just cannot see many teams willing to splash that amount on him right now. Next season possibly once he proves for the second year running that he is a player at this level.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thought it was interesting that Waggott admitted it will be a weaker league this time. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's good if they think they've spotted a chance.

To be fair I thought Waggots interview came across well he seems very thorough on the face of it and explained stuff in detail. Still sounds like the squeeze might be being put on other areas of the club but Venkys are now clearly keeping track of where every penny goes so it would be a travesty if money is wasted at the top end.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Little bit¬†of pressure put on Mowbray I thought. No hiding behind ‚ÄėWell club x have parachute money‚Äô. ‚ÄėSunderland get 30,000 gates‚Äô and so on. Quite right too.

Edited by Mattyblue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the alleged three year plan ...     ( if only football worked like this...)

Last season 4th bottom to 14 th ..

Next season  14th to 8 th  with an outside shot at 6th ..

Season after top 8 with a realistic shot at top 6 ...   ?

Reasonable maybe with continued backing and holding firm on sales although it'll all have to be delivered within the same realistic budgets,  I get the impression Venkys as a whole not individually might be happy to leave you plodding if you can create players to sell and the losses are manageable on their books.   However if you sell them a plan or vision they'll expect it delivered.

Not sure where TM & co are with that so maybe a bit of pressure  next season but I wouldn't be so sure that he'd heap it upon himself he's been around the block and he's looked very relaxed the last two seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Little bit¬†of pressure put on Mowbray I thought. No hiding behind ‚ÄėWell club x have parachute money‚Äô. ‚ÄėSunderland get 30,000 gates‚Äô and so on. Quite right too.

There has to be real pressure on him this season Matty.

He had his free pass last season.

 

At the end of the day we were 3 points outside the play offs and then went into freefall. Firmly at Tony's doorstep that. Flash the free pass.

 

Minimum expectation this season is the play offs. No excuses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, DE. said:

A bit late to talk about making us sustainable when we're already in such incredible debt. Sustainability plans should have been enacted years ago. The only way we get out of this black hole now is by getting promoted, and doing it on the cheap won't be easy without a very good and a very brave manager. I'm not even sure the club can maintain Championship status by being sustainable. It would all come down to the manager and very shrewd transfer dealings, neither of which we've been too hot on since our esteemed owners darkened the doors of Ewood.

Obviously theoretically running the club at a sustainable level is the ideal goal, and it's what Jack himself wanted for us, but we're already working on one hell of a handicap thanks to nearly a decade of disastrous mismanagement. So much so that it almost makes wanting to make the club self-sustainable now laughable and pointless. 

How often have I got to explain that whereas most football debt is existentially unsustainable, Rovers debt is actually very safe. Yes 2010 to 2017 was off the scale horrendous but currently it could scarcely be better from a sustainability stand point for a club from an impoverished little town.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, philipl said:

How often have I got to explain that whereas most football debt is existentially unsustainable, Rovers debt is actually very safe. Yes 2010 to 2017 was off the scale horrendous but currently it could scarcely be better from a sustainability stand point for a club from an impoverished little town.

Then why the talk of changing tactics and "making the club sustainable" if we're already sitting pretty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DE. said:

Then why the talk of changing tactics and "making the club sustainable" if we're already sitting pretty?

I think he means that the debt is held with the parent company and therefore the business "Blackburn Rovers " is safe as houses.

 

It's when shytes like Ken Anderson get hold and then leverage debt with financial institutions against the club and its property.   On top of not paying HMRC....this would never happen under venkys no matter what we think about them 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MarkBRFC said:

Is losing in the play off semi final next season a successful one?

No but it would be acceptable progress as it would mean we had a great season to finish 3rd - 6th.

I would be happy with a play-off place.

(Unless we were second with three games left and lost them all, of course!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that people want to "go for it", but if that means spending £10m-£20m with nothing in return, then it worries me if we should fail and have to suffer again for a few seasons following. That sort of game is a plain gamble, because most clubs have to give it up and suffer for years once they fail. There seem to be too many of them living off a credit card that will eventually see them bankrupt (administration) because the time is up on the owners who lent them the money in the first place. Some think that's a gamble worth trying. Some don't. Others don't even think of it that way.

Whatever you want to do, the fact remains that our debt is at the mercy of Venkys so, respectfully to @philipl, I don't see how our £150m+ debt to them can be viewed anything like safe. It only becomes once it's virtually eradicated - either by being written off, or by being returned via way of Premier League money.

I'm not necessarily grateful to Venkys for keeping us afloat and being this benefactor, because let's face it; this is ALL of their own making, no matter whether you forgive them or not. But I am relieved at the current model that we seem to be undertaking. I don't think anybody can deny that it is taking us in the right direction in comparison to the previous boom and bust model.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.