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Tony Mowbray Discussion


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I couldn’t put my finger on it until frosty posted yesterday that it has the feelings of the dying days of Souness in 2004 and Bowyer in 2015.

I don’t think they are perfect parallels, Souness had fallen out with half the squad by then, as well as having the other half playing out of position. Bowyer had the rug pulled from under him and was Poundland shopping. But with both it felt like time for a change.

Don’t think we are quite there yet, but the scales have certainly fallen from a few fans eyes in recent weeks.

Edited by Mattyblue
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Just now, Paul said:

Yes we will see what happens and you may well be right about something being amiss. Yours is an opinion I would always take note of. As you know I take a three month break in the summer! ?

I do feel it's very early days to judge. I've only seen the Charlton game. When the added time went up my immediate reaction was "don't make me watch another six minutes of this."

I'm not sure if you know that last November Mulgrew was given a new two and a half year deal. To go from an important player, captain and regular into persona non grata in a few months adds credence to the theories.

Don't get me wrong Paul I think he was finished but the speed of his departure without having a replacement for him just doesn't sit right with me.

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1 hour ago, arbitro said:

There are very few managers who don't to varying degrees. Two of the worst I ever came across were Souness and Hughes.

It didn't seem that way at the time! Fergy Time, demonisation in the media of refs he didn't like. At least Hughes and Souness didn't do it publicly (as far as I remember).

I was only being flippant anyway, anyone who's met him seems to come away with a good opinion of him. He definitely did everything he could to advantage his club. I have often thought we could have done with a bit more of that over the years.

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Just now, 47er said:

It didn't seem that way at the time! Fergy Time, demonisation in the media of refs he didn't like. At least Hughes and Souness didn't do it publicly (as far as I remember).

I was only being flippant anyway, anyone who's met him seems to come away with a good opinion of him. He definitely did everything he could to advantage his club. I have often thought we could have done with a bit more of that over the years.

I once confronted a manager who came into see me after a game to complain about some decisions so I told him I was sure I was correct. I was backed up by the other officials and assessor. On the way out I saw him and he pulled me over and said I was right but he complains about decisions most weeks and his logic was that when the referee has his team again his complaining might just buy him team a decision or two.

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1 hour ago, JHRover said:

There was more than just a whiff of foul play with the Mulgrew exit. Whatever your views of Mulgrew and his performances his exit, the timing and manner of it just doesn't sit right with me. It brings back unpleasant memories most notably Tom Cairney who was suddenly and unexpectedly ushered out the back door to a rival club who probably couldn't believe what we were doing.

Certainly not the behaviour of a well organised, happy club. 

Go through the transfer business on the final day of the window and the Mulgrew one sticks out like a sore thumb. Sending your captain out on loan to Wigan at that stage suggests something unhappy behind the scenes or alternatively extreme financial pressures and a desperation to raise funds from his wages.

Anyhow, Mowbray's talk of 'trying' for Harrison Reed and 'wanting a few' on deadline day then loaning two out and one in looks like a very poor joke. Especially now he's moaning about injuries.

IF Mulgrew did have a bust up with TM then you can imagine it wouldn’t have gone down well with the majority of the players. Likes of Dack are very good mates with him, so imagine they’d have their team mates back. Very interested to see the performance and effort levels on Saturday.

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Just now, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

IF Mulgrew did have a bust up with TM then you can imagine it wouldn’t have gone down well with the majority of the players. Likes of Dack are very good mates with him, so imagine they’d have their team mates back. Very interested to see the performance and effort levels on Saturday.

Can't be any worse than usual 

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21 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

IF Mulgrew did have a bust up with TM then you can imagine it wouldn’t have gone down well with the majority of the players. Likes of Dack are very good mates with him, so imagine they’d have their team mates back. Very interested to see the performance and effort levels on Saturday.

Yes Dack is good mates with Mulgrew. But also credit Mowbray for bringing the best out of his playing career. 

Dack had the desire and passion back on Tuesday night. Plenty of effort there

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Not real evidence but I have noted that Mulgrew has liked multiple Rovers related posts on Instagram including Tony Mowbray interviews. 

We are all going on very little evidence there was a bust up. Maybe it's a simple as Mulgrew knowing he wouldn't get regular minutes and moving somewhere local so as not to disrupt his family

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1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I'm not sure if you know that last November Mulgrew was given a new two and a half year deal. To go from an important player, captain and regular into persona non grata in a few months adds credence to the theories.

Don't get me wrong Paul I think he was finished but the speed of his departure without having a replacement for him just doesn't sit right with me.

No, it wasn’t right, something late on in the day happened. For me, Mulgrew must have asked for the move to Wigan and Mowbray was happy to lose his captain and first team regular.

someone, somewhere was very angry about something and that’s not good. It’s not unique of course, but it does at the least suggest there might be bigger problems in the club.

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8 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Not real evidence but I have noted that Mulgrew has liked multiple Rovers related posts on Instagram including Tony Mowbray interviews. 

We are all going on very little evidence there was a bust up. Maybe it's a simple as Mulgrew knowing he wouldn't get regular minutes and moving somewhere local so as not to disrupt his family

Mowbray hardly said he would get zero game time though. He was captain and started the weekend before. I find it strange he didn't stay and fight for his place. If this was planned, a new Captain would have been announced earlier. 

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Feels like a defining period for Mowbray.

Whilst the release of Mulgrew may have split opinion within the squad, it had to be done. At Championship level he's had two full seasons, one ended in relegation, the other as part of a defence that conceded over 60 goals.

Looking a world beater at League One level is not what we need.

Edited by rog of the rovers
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Just now, rog of the rovers said:

Feels like a defining period for Mowbray.

Whilst the release of Mulgrew may have split opinion within the squad, it had to be done. At Championship level he's had two full seasons, one ended in relegation, the other as part of a defence that conceded over 60 goals.

The thing is though it leaves us with just 3 centre backs 2 of them being Lenihan and Williams who were both a part of those two teams that Mulgrew played in that got relegated and shipped over 60 goals last season.

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Just now, rog of the rovers said:

Feels like a defining period for Mowbray.

Whilst the release of Mulgrew may have split opinion within the squad, it had to be done. At Championship level he's had two full seasons, one ended in relegation, the other as part of a defence that conceded over 60 goals

I think it's more the lack of long term planning - no captain change was poor and no replacement is terrible. A past it Mulgrew is better than no one at all. Even good moves it seems are done badly at the moment. 

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

I couldn’t put my finger on it until frosty posted yesterday that it has the feelings of the dying days of Souness in 2004 and Bowyer in 2015.

I don’t think they are perfect parallels, Souness had fallen out with half the squad by then, as well as having the other half playing out of position. Bowyer had the rug pulled from under him and was Poundland shopping. But with both it felt like time for a change.

Don’t think we are quite there yet, but the scales have certainly fallen from a few fans eyes in recent weeks.

I agree it's very reminiscent of Souness's last days. No visible team or plan, no strategy and a directionless ambiance that's hard to define. Whilst TM has fallen out with less players there seem to be more holes in this squad then the one Souness left behind. 

Regardless of the tangibility of the air of unease I think many are sending it and that there's something very badly wrong at Rovers (aside from the permanent burden of Venkys) at the moment. 

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23 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

 

We are all going on very little evidence there was a bust up. Maybe it's a simple as Mulgrew knowing he wouldn't get regular minutes and moving somewhere local so as not to disrupt his family

I don't think it is as simple as that.

To begin with, when we've such a lack of depth at CB unless we had new players coming in, which they didn't, then Mulgrew should have been retained until January at least. Even if he wasnt in the managers future plans or wasnt expected to play many games, he should have been kept as an insurance policy and told to fight for a place. It is a gamble with our season. We don't have enough depth in the defence to allow departures like that without replacements.

Then there's the assumption that he is going off to Wigan who are going to give him more minutes than he would get here. I don't.know where that assumption comes from given they've more defensive depth than we have and given Mowbray started Mulgrew as captain against Charlton.

Paul Cook is a horrible individual but isnt a mug and has a good record. He isnt going to commit himself to guaranteeing games and won't play Mulgrew unless he performs. Meanwhile under Mowbray certain players are guaranteed starts irrespective of performances. 

Something not right here.

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Just now, Ewood Ace said:

The thing is though it leaves us with just 3 centre backs 2 of them being Lenihan and Williams who were both a part of those two teams that Mulgrew played in that got relegated and shipped over 60 goals last season.

With two out of the three possibly already injured (not sure on Tosin). Considering Williams and Lenihan have a history of absences, then it really is negligent planning.

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Just now, Blue blood said:

I think it's more the lack of long term planning - no captain change was poor and no replacement is terrible. A past it Mulgrew is better than no one at all. Even good moves it seems are done badly at the moment. 

I agree it's very reminiscent of Souness's last days. No visible team or plan, no strategy and a directionless ambiance that's hard to define. Whilst TM has fallen out with less players there seem to be more holes in this squad then the one Souness left behind. 

Regardless of the tangibility of the air of unease I think many are sending it and that there's something very badly wrong at Rovers (aside from the permanent burden of Venkys) at the moment. 

My thoughts too. Get rid of him for sure but at the start of the transfer window not the end, for obvious reasons.

Everything TM does now seems to defy logic. No faith in him anymore.

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Mowbray is already overdue to leave the club, according to these stats.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/9875915/average-tenure-of-managers-in-england-just-1-23-years

The vast majority of managers have a limited shelf life. They do well for a while, then get found out or cannot sustain it long term.

Mowbray probably knows his time at Ewood is almost up.

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10 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The thing is though it leaves us with just 3 centre backs 2 of them being Lenihan and Williams who were both a part of those two teams that Mulgrew played in that got relegated and shipped over 60 goals last season.

Didnt we try for 3 or 4 centre backs targets in the last couple of days of window but none successful. Im surprise we havent sign a free agent centre back up like Ashley Williams or Joe Lynch. 

Mowbray seems to be pinning his job on Tosin? Must have alot of belief in him. 

 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Didnt we try for 3 or 4 centre backs targets in the last couple of days of window but none successful. Im surprise we havent sign a free agent centre back up like Ashley Williams or Joe Lynch. 

Mowbray seems to be pinning his job on Tosin? Must have alot of belief in him. 

 

At any other club there would be a post-mortem inquest into the window and how it unfolded. It clearly didn't go as planned so there should be a root and branch investigation into how it could be approached differently to enable progress in future. 

As it is there's far too much of this self-pity 'we cant compete' or 'we tried our best' 'We'll go with what we've got' stuff. Not good enough. Trying and failing wont get the progress required. Doing does. So if the existing structure can't deliver the personnel needed to make progress it needs changing or replacing. 

I have to say the revelation that Venus is negotiating contracts and deals with new signings is far from reassuring. Quite why the assistant manager is spending his time doing that is a worry. 

The more time that goes by and the more missed targets and boring excuses I hear the more fed up I get with things.

I feel we have a low budget management structure throughout the club primarily concerned with saving cash and doing things on the cheap. We've a chief executive who appears to have little power other than to put prices up in his quest to increase income. We've a manager and assistant who appear to have too much power and responsibility for a club of this size and level.

Time we joined the 21st century. No more 1960s 'I am the manager and run the whole club' stuff. 

We need an overarching approach driven by an experienced administrator. Not the managers mate who will agree with everything he does.

How long does this cycle continue?

Every transfer window we talk the talk, set expectations high, promise x, y and a and then turn around at the end of it to a disappointed fanbase and say 'oh well, we tried our best and we'll go with what we have'.

Can carry on for another 10 years doing that. More to it than that.

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57 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Mowbray hardly said he would get zero game time though. He was captain and started the weekend before. I find it strange he didn't stay and fight for his place. If this was planned, a new Captain would have been announced earlier. 

It's likely we needed his wages off the books to bring in Cunningham.

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Just now, JHRover said:

At any other club there would be a post-mortem inquest into the window and how it unfolded. It clearly didn't go as planned so there should be a root and branch investigation into how it could be approached differently to enable progress in future. 

As it is there's far too much of this self-pity 'we cant compete' or 'we tried our best' 'We'll go with what we've got' stuff. Not good enough. Trying and failing wont get the progress required. Doing does. So if the existing structure can't deliver the personnel needed to make progress it needs changing or replacing. 

I have to say the revelation that Venus is negotiating contracts and deals with new signings is far from reassuring. Quite why the assistant manager is spending his time doing that is a worry. 

The more time that goes by and the more missed targets and boring excuses I hear the more fed up I get with things.

I feel we have a low budget management structure throughout the club primarily concerned with saving cash and doing things on the cheap. We've a chief executive who appears to have little power other than to put prices up in his quest to increase income. We've a manager and assistant who appear to have too much power and responsibility for a club of this size and level.

Time we joined the 21st century. No more 1960s 'I am the manager and run the whole club' stuff. 

We need an overarching approach driven by an experienced administrator. Not the managers mate who will agree with everything he does.

How long does this cycle continue?

Every transfer window we talk the talk, set expectations high, promise x, y and a and then turn around at the end of it to a disappointed fanbase and say 'oh well, we tried our best and we'll go with what we have'.

Can carry on for another 10 years doing that. More to it than that.

If I was in charge the staff would probably go on strike but you need to rule with an iron fist especially in an industry full of snakes. I said even before the takeover (not constantly but occasionally) that you have to beware of snakes, etc and that there were probably people like that already at the club. I was called paranoid but look what happened with Agnew and to an extent Newsham. Kean of course and I'm pretty sure who (one of 3 people but all had motive) leaked the Parkes firing to the press to cause trouble. All the staff should be made to reapply for their jobs (not talking the players obviously or the manager who should be sacked anyway) which isn't illegal practice far as I'm aware.

As for the manager running the club that could apply to previous regime as well. Jack Walker did have certain policies (players who he considered too old, etc) but he certainly didn't pick the team or anything like that. Not saying anyone would have to either but there's nothing wrong with bringing in sporting directors, etc as long as it's not Shebby Singh. 

As for Venus someone called him Val Venus other day. Val Venus and Mowbray Magoo that's what I'm gonna call them both from now on. 

 

Edited by Vinjay17
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I remember talking to Jacob Murphy after his loan spell at Coventry. Said that when things were going well TM was a delight to work under, but when the pressure was on and they started slipping out of the play offs, Mowbray just stopped talking to players and kept away from them. He said he became impossible to talk to. Could easily see that happening again here. 

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I never get it when people call him ‘dour’ or ‘boring’. He seems enormously passionate to me, almost naive in his enthusiasm for the game.  

I imagine he takes poor runs of results extremely badly.

So I can certainly believe that.

Edited by Mattyblue
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Just now, ChrisPriceBaldSpot said:

I remember talking to Jacob Murphy after his loan spell at Coventry. Said that when things were going well TM was a delight to work under, but when the pressure was on and they started slipping out of the play offs, Mowbray just stopped talking to players and kept away from them. He said he became impossible to talk to. Could easily see that happening again here. 

Yep, can picture that. 

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