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Tony Mowbray Discussion


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31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Preston was awful performance after being 2 nil up and playing well and to a plan. So to crumble like we did was extremely disappointed. 

I said after the Barnsley home game that I honestly thought Mowbray would have walk away after the game if we didn't win. But that game has been catalyst for us climbing the league table and being where we are now. Did Mowbray and the players have a team meeting after that game and clear the air talks.(Just a suggestion btw)

 

I think they are paying plenty of attention to the club and what is happening, games, social media and what fans think. They aren't stupid Football and they have number of high profile mistakes and decisions that cost us.  Venkys clearly like Mowbray as manager. They find him trustworthy and honest to them. Something that appeal to them. 

This is where you hope Mowbray and his recruitment have targets ready to move right now. Talking to their club and Players agents. I expected majority of signings will be foreign 

I don't doubt that Mowbray and his team will have targets in mind and would ideally like to move for them early. Unfortunately the backward structure of him having to wait until May to fly to India to review and agree things before he goes on his family holiday results in a month of delays after the season has finished. Can't do it.

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While I try to resist my curiosity of the protected   Species hypocritiotocus chadomus really my overall feelings with Mowbray are of hope but I just can’t help think that when we have our good spells it’s luck rather than judgement , often it seems his hand is forced . I would be utterly delighted to be proven wrong 

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2 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

While I try to resist my curiosity of the protected   Species hypocritiotocus chadomus really my overall feelings with Mowbray are of hope but I just can’t help think that when we have our good spells it’s luck rather than judgement , often it seems his hand is forced . I would be utterly delighted to be proven wrong 

You may be right, but all I'd say to that is that lucky men don't tend to stay lucky forever. After a while the law of averages kicks in, and then it's only right to judge a manager on his record in those circumstances.

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9 minutes ago, bboy said:

To dissect my opinions on Tony a liitle. 

Tony the man manager- his strongest skill, he clearly has the backing of his players throughout his time here. Best we've had since Big Sam. Only issues I have is too many pointless contracts last season & strange treatment of Danny Graham this season. 

Tony the tactision- umm hit and miss, he gets some games perfectly. He clearly wanted to change the way we play this season. However to many times early this season we where round peg in a square hole. Bennett RB was Terrible, the wide striker situation wasn't/ still isn't a solution. I have no doubt that since more players are playing in their natural position our results improved is no coincidence. 

Tony the player developer-- often this feels like it happens when he's forced to eg. Travis. He's also too loyal to his league one crew for too long. However if his hand was forced or not he's brought a lot of academy players into the first team and some have thrived. 

Tony the recruiter--mixed bag, take out Dack and it's fairly poor record. The problem is he is too old school in the transfer market too patient and refuses to let a new player instantly come into the team. He tells them that too and I feel like we've missed out on good players because of it. Too many times it feels potentially good signing seemed to have slipped away. 

 

Tony the Man- it's hard not to like the Football loving Northern bloke. I'm grateful for the 3 years. He's not the perfect manager but his time so far goes down as a success and it's a long time since we've had a manager who I'd say did that. Here's to Tony taking tovers back to where we belong! 

 

Good assessment to be fair. Although I don't think his transfer record sans Dack is as bad as people make out. 

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18 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Found this opinion piece on Mowbrays signings an interesting read:

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-15-to-1/

http://roverschat.com/ranking-tony-mowbrays-signings-29-to-16/

You look at the first list, and I think even within that top half, the likes of Holtby, Rothwell, Cunningham, (due to injury) Samuel, Antonsson, Bell and Gallagher range from the jury still being out and difficult to judge them as an out and out success as of yet, to potentially even failure. His transfer record is very flaky, albeit the top 2 are big assets.

I think during his time in charge, his main work aside from man management has been relying on the likes of Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis, all of whom he has developed, especially Travis.

Antonsson scored some valuable goals for us and was instrumental in our winning spell pre-Christmas of that season. A lot of accusations of revisionism on this thread so let's not do that ourselves.

Nuttall got a few goals for us too. Signed on a free, left on a fee. Does he deserve to be behind so many of them players? It was decent business for the club really. He performed very, very well for our U23s in their great season.

Payne was back up to Dack. Not particularly great but useful in his time here. A loan signing isn't bad.

Difficult to disagree with the likes of Caddis, Hart, Whittingham, Harper. Although they were free / loans so it's not exactly an outlay for the club. They filled a gap where required and were largely League 1 signings.

I also think it's harsh on Johnson. He's not been spectacular but he's had a few good performances too. 

If that post was meant to signal Mowbray as a failure in the transfer market then I think it's done the opposite for me unfortunately. Brereton so far is the only signing I'd consider a real failure because he cost a lot of money. Most of his signings have been free / loans and they are that for a reason. Some work out, some don't. I think his good signings far outweigh his terrible ones.

Good - Dack, Holtby, Downing, Reed, Tosin, Smallwood (for the league), P. Downing (League 1), 

Outright Bad - Brereton, Caddis, Whittingham, Harper.

I even think Harper in that list is a bit of a tough one for him. He did ok when back at West Brom.

Overall I think there's too much desire from both sides to either label Mowbray as a big success or a big failure. He's neither, really. He's operating within the clubs limitations and we unfortunately were at a position where we couldn't attract the better names when he came. This season he's added the likes of Tosin, Holtby and Stewart Downing to the club and his signings are showing much more promise, naturally.

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22 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Antonsson scored some valuable goals for us and was instrumental in our winning spell pre-Christmas of that season. A lot of accusations of revisionism on this thread so let's not do that ourselves.

Nuttall got a few goals for us too. Signed on a free, left on a fee. Does he deserve to be behind so many of them players? It was decent business for the club really. He performed very, very well for our U23s in their great season.

Payne was back up to Dack. Not particularly great but useful in his time here. A loan signing isn't bad.

Difficult to disagree with the likes of Caddis, Hart, Whittingham, Harper. Although they were free / loans so it's not exactly an outlay for the club. They filled a gap where required and were largely League 1 signings.

I also think it's harsh on Johnson. He's not been spectacular but he's had a few good performances too. 

If that post was meant to signal Mowbray as a failure in the transfer market then I think it's done the opposite for me unfortunately. Brereton so far is the only signing I'd consider a real failure because he cost a lot of money. Most of his signings have been free / loans and they are that for a reason. Some work out, some don't. I think his good signings far outweigh his terrible ones.

Good - Dack, Holtby, Downing, Reed, Tosin, Smallwood (for the league), P. Downing (League 1), 

Outright Bad - Brereton, Caddis, Whittingham, Harper.

I even think Harper in that list is a bit of a tough one for him. He did ok when back at West Brom.

Overall I think there's too much desire from both sides to either label Mowbray as a big success or a big failure. He's neither, really. He's operating within the clubs limitations and we unfortunately were at a position where we couldn't attract the better names when he came. This season he's added the likes of Tosin, Holtby and Stewart Downing to the club and his signings are showing much more promise, naturally.

I never said that hes a big success or a failure, I think that list proves that less than half of his signings can be deemed success. Antonsson and Payne were ok, think the former in particular is maybe neither a success or a failure, Payne did precious little. Nuttall a poor player but made a small profit so not awful. Johnson has had 3 or 4 good games and has been poor the rest so far, hence public criticism by Mowbray, being dropped and questions about his living arrangements.

Harpers form post Rovers has involved barely playing but is irrelevant. Paul Downing has not got into Pompeys team but doesnt mean he wasnt a good loan signing here.

Gallagher is undoubtedly a failure and there are quite a few in that top half, Bell, Samuel, Rothwell etc that cant really be deemed a success, nor a disastrous failure. Missed out Gladwin too in your failure list.

For me far less than 50% of his signings have been successes but there are 4 or 5 superb signings and its not solely dependant on his transfer record whennjudging him and his team, a few of the younger lads have become key players under his development so there is no need to be quite as defensive regarding transfers.

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33 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

This season he's added the likes of Tosin, Holtby and Stewart Downing to the club and his signings are showing much more promise, naturally.

These have all been good signings in general (although in Holtby's case limited due to fitness) but also worth noting all three are short-term. I expect Downing will get extended for another season and I believe Holtby is contracted to 2021, but sadly I expect Tosin will be playing a league higher next season unless we manage to go up ourselves. I think our 'build for the future' signings are still very debatable as to whether they are good signings or not at present. Bell, Davenport, Samuel, Chapman, Brereton, Gallagher, Rothwell... all either failed to impress, barely featured due to injury/not good enough or only had purple patches of good form. So far Arma is the only younger signing I'd say has really come through for us and looks like he could really push on. The rest of our younger players (Travis, Nyambe, Lenihan (not young anymore though), Buckley, Rankin-Costello) have come from within so not applicable in this instance. 

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In terms of signings when there hasn't been money around then you suddenly get a big wad you really have to make that count. We might get no more significant money again now so as was said at the time of the signings and has only been reinforced with what we've seen since.

12 million pounds could and should have been spent better there's no getting away from that it could have set us up as a top 6 side for a season or two. 

However if by this time next season Gallagher and BB are starting as strikers and have ten goals plus between them it'll be another of TM's come back from the dead jobs. Just cannot see it myself certainly where Brereton is concerned but we live in hope, we'll have to on this one.

 

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4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I never said that hes a big success or a failure, I think that list proves that less than half of his signings can be deemed success. Antonsson and Payne were ok, think the former in particular is maybe neither a success or a failure, Payne did precious little. Nuttall a poor player but made a small profit so not awful. Johnson has had 3 or 4 good games and has been poor the rest so far, hence public criticism by Mowbray, being dropped and questions about his living arrangements.

Harpers form post Rovers has involved barely playing but is irrelevant. Paul Downing has not got into Pompeys team but doesnt mean he wasnt a good loan signing here.

Gallagher is undoubtedly a failure and there are quite a few in that top half, Bell, Samuel, Rothwell etc that cant really be deemed a success, nor a disastrous failure. Missed out Gladwin too in your failure list.

For me far less than 50% of his signings have been successes but there are 4 or 5 superb signings and its not solely dependant on his transfer record whennjudging him and his team, a few of the younger lads have become key players under his development so there is no need to be quite as defensive regarding transfers.

Gladwin is definitely a failure. I apologise for that. Was always a bit of a weird signings.

You go on about people being defensive but you make outlandish statements like the one in bold man. Gallagher isn't "undoubtedly" a failure. The entire fan base will stand with you in saying Gladwin, Caddis, Whittingham and maybe even BB. How can you say that Rothwell, Bell aren't successes if they have played but Gallagher is a downright failure? It's like it's one rule for one and another for another.

This isn't me saying Bell and Rothwell are particularly successful signings but by the same token you can't call Gallagher a failure. Gallagher might get 10 goals next season and linked with a big move away like Armstrong now - would that turn him around from an undoubted failure to a success?

I also forgot Armstrong from the list of successes. Perhaps tells me you are more keen to spot the failures than the successes.

Just now, DE. said:

These have all been good signings in general (although in Holtby's case limited due to fitness) but also worth noting all three are short-term. I expect Downing will get extended for another season and I believe Holtby is contracted to 2021, but sadly I expect Tosin will be playing a league higher next season unless we manage to go up ourselves. I think our 'build for the future' signings are still very debatable as to whether they are good signings or not at present. Bell, Davenport, Samuel, Chapman, Brereton, Gallagher, Rothwell... all either failed to impress, barely featured due to injury/not good enough or only had purple patches of good form. So far Arma is the only younger signing I'd say has really come through for us and looks like he could really push on. The rest of our younger players (Travis, Nyambe, Lenihan (not young anymore though), Buckley, Rankin-Costello) have come from within so not applicable in this instance. 

We can all go into individual opinions of signings, which effectively this discussion is, but by and large I will judge the incomings / outgoings of Mowbray based on the state of the squad now vs the state of the squad when he arrived.

Is the squad in a better state? Yes

Is there more value in this squad than when he arrived? Yes

However, are there arguments to suggest 12m could have been better spent? Definitely. However, speaking from a broad range like we are, it is without doubt that our squad is far better therefore it would be unwise to call him unsuccessful in recruiting. Coyle was unsuccessful because he brought in past-it players or chancers (Stokes) that didn't have any resale value or ambition. Now the argument is he didn't have 12m but that's a different matter entirely; Mowbray works with what he has got.

At 20 years old I'm willing to give Brereton another 2 years. Likewise I'm adamant that Gallagher isn't an undoubted failure. It's harsh on the lad. However I'll let roversfan99 have his moment because he's adamant for all the world he is. You can't change the opinion of a man who has his mind up, no matter how often he tries to say his thinking is fluid when it comes to Rovers. We've posted stats about how we win games with Gallagher on the wing but he's still, in his eyes, an "undoubted failure". A player who has played the majority of our games as we sit here 3 points from play offs, 1st in the form table since December and he's an "undoubted failure" because of a few poor games.

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19 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Gladwin is definitely a failure. I apologise for that. Was always a bit of a weird signings.

You go on about people being defensive but you make outlandish statements like the one in bold man. Gallagher isn't "undoubtedly" a failure. The entire fan base will stand with you in saying Gladwin, Caddis, Whittingham and maybe even BB. How can you say that Rothwell, Bell aren't successes if they have played but Gallagher is a downright failure? It's like it's one rule for one and another for another.

This isn't me saying Bell and Rothwell are particularly successful signings but by the same token you can't call Gallagher a failure. Gallagher might get 10 goals next season and linked with a big move away like Armstrong now - would that turn him around from an undoubted failure to a success?

I also forgot Armstrong from the list of successes. Perhaps tells me you are more keen to spot the failures than the successes.

We can all go into individual opinions of signings, which effectively this discussion is, but by and large I will judge the incomings / outgoings of Mowbray based on the state of the squad now vs the state of the squad when he arrived.

Is the squad in a better state? Yes

Is there more value in this squad than when he arrived? Yes

However, are there arguments to suggest 12m could have been better spent? Definitely. However, speaking from a broad range like we are, it is without doubt that our squad is far better therefore it would be unwise to call him unsuccessful in recruiting. Coyle was unsuccessful because he brought in past-it players or chancers (Stokes) that didn't have any resale value or ambition. Now the argument is he didn't have 12m but that's a different matter entirely; Mowbray works with what he has got.

At 20 years old I'm willing to give Brereton another 2 years. Likewise I'm adamant that Gallagher isn't an undoubted failure. It's harsh on the lad. However I'll let roversfan99 have his moment because he's adamant for all the world he is. You can't change the opinion of a man who has his mind up, no matter how often he tries to say his thinking is fluid when it comes to Rovers. We've posted stats about how we win games with Gallagher on the wing but he's still, in his eyes, an "undoubted failure". A player who has played the majority of our games as we sit here 3 points from play offs, 1st in the form table since December and he's an "undoubted failure" because of a few poor games.

Theres an obsession by quite a few at the moment to try and portray people as being negative, even to the point where their opinions are being somewhat twisted to suggest that they are solely focused on critising the manager. Armstrong was one of the 4 or 5 "superb" signings that I referenced. Ultimately, he is also a perfect example of how everything is based on the situation at the moment. 3 months ago, Armstrong may well have been deemed an ok or satisfactory signing, but he has stepped up and shown that he can significantly impact on games with more consistency at this level, that we can build around him, that theres a player with an increased value. When I look at our team next season and how it is developing, its around Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis, Dack and Armstrong, they are the 5 I think are key. Only 2 are Mowbray signings. What I also did is credit the manager for developing the other 3, especially Travis.

With Bell, Rothwell, Chapman, Davenport, Samuel etc, none of them have displayed any significant impact on the team or many tangible signs that if we sold them we would make a profit on meagre fees to sign them. Therefore, it is impossible to justify a success tag for any of them. Key is, we are judging now, I think Davenport and maybe Chapman could perhaps be deemed failures, the former in particular more down to injuries than anything else. Because we are judging now, and we have seen little to suggest that they could be a success at some point, one or two could suddenly burst into life and have a prolonged impact on oue developing team. Judging now, they range from being neither outright successes or failures, to in particular Davenport and Chapman, failures if we are judging now. Bell for example has been a continued weakness for 2 years but he was a cheap signing from League 1, the manager tried to replace him, succeeded monentarily and was unfortunate with injury. But hes not been bad enough for me to deem him a sure fire failure.

There are also a few, Paul Downing, (very shrewd loan, pointless and premature permanent deal) Antonsson (6 or 7 goals and then nothing in the second half of the season) and to a lesser extent Payne, who played fairly minor and passive roles along the way at the beginning of the journey, who I think an outright success tag would be a stretch but are not failures either

Gallagher has to be deemed a failure at this time in my opinion because he is categorized with Brereton in terms of the money spent. He might go onto to score plenty of goals as you say, surely the same logic would apply to Brereton? Im basing on what I have seen now, neither has done or come close to suggesting that they could do or will do. Both have contributed precious little whilst costing us the majority of Mowbrays fees in his time here. Both have also fallen victim to for me the tactic that Mowbray deserves the most questioning and criticism for, wide strikers. It has not worked and perhaps not helped the development of either player. For the interest of fairness and to ensure that I am not seen as simply slating the manager, he was correct overall with his initial tactical compromise of going more direct to Graham, and I have seen evidence of his change in style working too.

 

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7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Theres an obsession by quite a few at the moment to try and portray people as being negative, even to the point where their opinions are being somewhat twisted to suggest that they are solely focused on critising the manager. Armstrong was one of the 4 or 5 "superb" signings that I referenced. Ultimately, he is also a perfect example of how everything is based on the situation at the moment. 3 months ago, Armstrong may well have been deemed an ok or satisfactory signing, but he has stepped up and shown that he can significantly impact on games with more consistency at this level, that we can build around him, that theres a player with an increased value. When I look at our team next season and how it is developing, its around Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis, Dack and Armstrong, they are the 5 I think are key. Only 2 are Mowbray signings. What I also did is credit the manager for developing the other 3, especially Travis.

With Bell, Rothwell, Chapman, Davenport, Samuel etc, none of them have displayed any significant impact on the team or many tangible signs that if we sold them we would make a profit on meagre fees to sign them. Therefore, it is impossible to justify a success tag for any of them. Key is, we are judging now, I think Davenport and maybe Chapman could perhaps be deemed failures, the former in particular more down to injuries than anything else. Because we are judging now, and we have seen little to suggest that they could be a success at some point, one or two could suddenly burst into life and have a prolonged impact on oue developing team. Judging now, they range from being neither outright successes or failures, to in particular Davenport and Chapman, failures if we are judging now. Bell for example has been a continued weakness for 2 years but he was a cheap signing from League 1, the manager tried to replace him, succeeded monentarily and was unfortunate with injury. But hes not been bad enough for me to deem him a sure fire failure.

There are also a few, Paul Downing, (very shrewd loan, pointless and premature permanent deal) Antonsson (6 or 7 goals and then nothing in the second half of the season) and to a lesser extent Payne, who played fairly minor and passive roles along the way at the beginning of the journey, who I think an outright success tag would be a stretch but are not failures either

Gallagher has to be deemed a failure at this time in my opinion because he is categorized with Brereton in terms of the money spent. He might go onto to score plenty of goals as you say, surely the same logic would apply to Brereton? Im basing on what I have seen now, neither has done or come close to suggesting that they could do or will do. Both have contributed precious little whilst costing us the majority of Mowbrays fees in his time here. Both have also fallen victim to for me the tactic that Mowbray deserves the most questioning and criticism for, wide strikers. It has not worked and perhaps not helped the development of either player. For the interest of fairness and to ensure that I am not seen as simply slating the manager, he was correct overall with his initial tactical compromise of going more direct to Graham, and I have seen evidence of his change in style working too.

 

These little catch lines of how people are always out to portray others as something there are not are getting boring man. It's a forum - you are judged by the content you put out. If you aren't putting yourself across as you intend then that's your look out and up to you to change the way you word things to suit. Alternatively, discuss your points and try and change that perception. Is it discussion we want or an echo chamber?

You've changed from an undoubted failure to your opinion. That's better. It's an opinion at the end of the day but you won't get full agreement from the fans on that. If you are going to throw the word failure around you save it for when something has failed: Whittingham or Gladwin. Gallagher is playing and we are winning matches when he plays. The money spent on him is testament to the fees commanded in modern football and is £5m a lot of money for an English centre forward? We have all seen the difficulties clubs are facing trying to attract quality strikers because they demand such insane fees. £5m on Gallagher isn't money wasted. His goal scoring record should be better but I'll wait until the side is properly settled before I judge him. I fully expect us to go out for wingers in the summer which will solve the problem of playing him out wide.

You know, in my opinion, Downing and Antonsson were successful for what we needed them for. Each played their part in the promotion, cost us nothing and then left without any fuss made. That to me is a successful interaction between a player and a club. You won't deem that successful because they didn't turn up trees or get sold for multi millions of pounds but they did the job required, reached targets and moved on. How is that not a success? It did exactly what was intended to do.

What I will end the post on is that I've not implied you are out for the manager but you are dealing in absolutes. "He is a failure" then when it's argued against you are trying to claim people are out to paint you in a negative spin. Of course it will be argued against because there's not many people who will call Gallagher an objective failure. You put in your posts plenty of caveats to as why people can't be considered as successful signings but none for why they are considered failures. To me failure is something that has been exhausted and is no longer workable. Gallagher has brought results, as shown in another topic, and has scored some goals too. He has a future at this club. To me that isn't a failure and to judge him as so only discredits the supposed facts you are using to back up what is ultimately just an opinion.

 

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6 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

You know all this how?

Its my thoughts on the subject. 

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

I don't doubt that Mowbray and his team will have targets in mind and would ideally like to move for them early. Unfortunately the backward structure of him having to wait until May to fly to India to review and agree things before he goes on his family holiday results in a month of delays after the season has finished. Can't do it.

From Comments made by Mowbray, its seems there is alot of scouting going on in Europe. Most transfers don't happening in May or early June anyway but I do agree that the system need to more simplified. I have no problem will Mowbray and Waggott going to India and meeting the owners face to face. But needs to do in the 1st couple of weeks after the season is done. Maybe they could meet in London or in Venkys HQ in Switzerland would be more suitable especially if we in the Playoff final if we get there

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Another piece on the anniversary. Good read, however this quote from Waggott was a bit of contradiction...

‘With young players you get the high energy, but also the highs and the lows and inconsistencies and he knows that. But we’ve got a Category One Academy that costs £4m to run, so why would you want to be delving in to other clubs for 18 or 19-year-olds when you’ve got a Category One Academy.’


Didn’t we do exactly that with £7million on a 19 year old from Nottingham Forest?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18250849.inside-story-tony-mowbrays-three-years-rovers/

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2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

These little catch lines of how people are always out to portray others as something there are not are getting boring man. It's a forum - you are judged by the content you put out. If you aren't putting yourself across as you intend then that's your look out and up to you to change the way you word things to suit. Alternatively, discuss your points and try and change that perception. Is it discussion we want or an echo chamber?

You've changed from an undoubted failure to your opinion. That's better. It's an opinion at the end of the day but you won't get full agreement from the fans on that. If you are going to throw the word failure around you save it for when something has failed: Whittingham or Gladwin. Gallagher is playing and we are winning matches when he plays. The money spent on him is testament to the fees commanded in modern football and is £5m a lot of money for an English centre forward? We have all seen the difficulties clubs are facing trying to attract quality strikers because they demand such insane fees. £5m on Gallagher isn't money wasted. His goal scoring record should be better but I'll wait until the side is properly settled before I judge him. I fully expect us to go out for wingers in the summer which will solve the problem of playing him out wide.

You know, in my opinion, Downing and Antonsson were successful for what we needed them for. Each played their part in the promotion, cost us nothing and then left without any fuss made. That to me is a successful interaction between a player and a club. You won't deem that successful because they didn't turn up trees or get sold for multi millions of pounds but they did the job required, reached targets and moved on. How is that not a success? It did exactly what was intended to do.

What I will end the post on is that I've not implied you are out for the manager but you are dealing in absolutes. "He is a failure" then when it's argued against you are trying to claim people are out to paint you in a negative spin. Of course it will be argued against because there's not many people who will call Gallagher an objective failure. You put in your posts plenty of caveats to as why people can't be considered as successful signings but none for why they are considered failures. To me failure is something that has been exhausted and is no longer workable. Gallagher has brought results, as shown in another topic, and has scored some goals too. He has a future at this club. To me that isn't a failure and to judge him as so only discredits the supposed facts you are using to back up what is ultimately just an opinion.

 

You say that 5m is not a lot for an English striker, but it is if he is ineffective which in the main I feel he has been. With Gallagher, we paid 5m for a striker who has scored 3 in 29, partially down to sometimes being played out of position but that just compounds the fact that he has been IMO a poor signing, because if we wanted a wide man, dont sign a 5m striker.

Didnt the stats show that we won more with Gallagher out of the team?

It is not that he is a failure as a conclusive word, in the same way that Gladwin, Whittingham and Harper are, as things could change. It is very much as we judge today. If Gallagher this time next year has scored another 15 goals for example then he would then be a success. Im not saying its conclusive, I just think hes been really poor, his goal comtributions are not good enough up to now, hes not been used well at times, and we spent 5m on fees, all on him. My judgement on him might be a bit more lenient had he been bought for a similar fee to a Rothwell or a Samuel. I think that is fair.

Also, is it not inconsistent based on your definitions of failure to judge Brereton one?

You could say about basically any player that we got results with them in the side, both positive or negative. Based on your analysis of Antonsson and Downing, fair enough, success is a term I can somewhat agree with as individuals, mainly in the first half of the season but still played a fairly significant part so fair play. But could you not argue then that Caddis, Whittingham and Gladwin were successes. You can have a good signing in a bad season (Coyle signed Mulgrew and Graham) and equally we are having a good season but at this time, and I am really hoping it changes and not saying that it wont, but Gallagher would be in the failure category IMO, partly based on price.

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5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Another piece on the anniversary. Good read, however this quote from Waggott was a bit of contradiction...

‘With young players you get the high energy, but also the highs and the lows and inconsistencies and he knows that. But we’ve got a Category One Academy that costs £4m to run, so why would you want to be delving in to other clubs for 18 or 19-year-olds when you’ve got a Category One Academy.’


Didn’t we do exactly that with £7million on a 19 year old from Nottingham Forest?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18250849.inside-story-tony-mowbrays-three-years-rovers/

Very good read and indicative, IMO, of the strategy put in place by the consultants, which I hypothesise as follows:

1) Promotion at all costs as early as possible is not the plan IF you assume that the owners are rich as Croesus and not bothered by an extra year or two of funding losses. Given that promotion now guarantees you at least £300m even if you come straight down, an extra year or two of £20m losses is irrelevant.

2) The synergy between a player-producing academy and a manager willing to take the long view in bringing them into the team as they mature is deemed more important to the sustainability of the club than reacting to short-term results and bringing in a manager who ignored the academy.
 

Add these two together and: 

- Mowbray would have to have a really bad season for his job to be at risk.

- He will be judged at the macro-level. So while Brereton for £7m is endlessly focused on on here, it doesn’t matter strategically which of Armstrong and Brereton cost £7m and £1.5m.

- The next manager is Johno.

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