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Tony Mowbray Discussion

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Just now, AAK said:

He never seems to perform when he starts games unfortunately. However maybe he needs a run, like travis got (by default) last season. I am still astounded by mowbray dropping travis for evans for the preston game. That was one of the worst managerial decisions i have ever seen, it really was ridiculous.

He did get a run last season and he was outstanding so im not sure that is a fair comment at all. He in that last 10/12 games regularly was a key player for us.

He this season was undeservedly dropped at the start of the season despite this, with Mowbrays favourite Armstrong preferred. He has started 3 games, all in isolation, all away from home in difficult games.

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46 minutes ago, 47er said:

Has the potential to be TM's most inspired signing after Dack (not that there's a lot of competition!). I think he would do very well at another Championship club. Dare I say---like Preston?

If  there is no-one sniffing about its because he doesn't play enough to be noticed but if things carry on like they are he'll make his own waves.Inevitable---use him or lose him Tony!

482 minutes so far this season, usually against a tiring defence, maybe is long enough for professional scouts. 

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Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

482 minutes so far this season, usually against a tiring defence, maybe is long enough for professional scouts. 

Well, we'll see eh? I'm crucial of TM for not playing Rothwell more, if you're not then fair enough.

Who does improve under TM by the way?

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16 minutes ago, 47er said:

Well, we'll see eh? I'm crucial of TM for not playing Rothwell more, if you're not then fair enough.

Who does improve under TM by the way?

If he got a few goals and assists this season then Mowbray’s hand would be forced. He can’t defend so if he’s not making goals then personally I wouldn’t play him. The much maligned Benno has three assists so I’m not clear why Rothwell isn’t having a bigger impact when he is on. 

I don’t expect the manager to improve players - what can a clogger of a centre-half teach a flair player anyway? I expect him to sign better ones than he does.

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8 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

This is the highest level he’s ever been at, and no doubt his biggest wage, so I’m not sure he’d do much better by leaving. Let’s see how many offers roll in for him in January.

Rothwell is a class act. Bit his attributes seem to place him as a better impact sub than first team mainstay.
 

Id start with Holtby, Dack and Armstrong with Rothwell backing them up.

The managers comments this morning are interesting huh? Talking the academy up in particular Bucko (who, as I said earlier they fully expect to be starting games regularly in the new year). To me Mowbray  hints that he’s been to India to square off some transfer funds saying that the other young players are probably not ready to take them into the Premier league...yet.

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7 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I don’t expect the manager to improve players

Really? Honest? Staggered by that one. Makes his job easier then!

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1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Rothwell is a class act. Bit his attributes seem to place him as a better impact sub than first team mainstay.
 

Id start with Holtby, Dack and Armstrong with Rothwell backing them up.

The managers comments this morning are interesting huh? Talking the academy up in particular Bucko (who, as I said earlier they fully expect to be starting games regularly in the new year). To me Mowbray  hints that he’s been to India to square off some transfer funds saying that the other young players are probably not ready to take them into the Premier league...yet.

If only he could spend transfer funds wisely......😢

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5 minutes ago, 47er said:

If only he could spend transfer funds wisely......😢

I agree. There’s no doubt that there’s huge question marks hanging over both Gally and BB based upon the fees we paid. I’d say it’s a 40/60 split, good to bad signings (Not good enough). Should the likes of those two kick on and the likes of Chapman, Davenport and Rothwell break into the first XI then I’d say he’d be more 70/30 which is pretty good in the market overall...but that’s a lot of IF’s.

I think Mowbrays eventual undoing will be his ability in the transfer market and inability to get the formula right (tactically) over a prolonged period.

I noted your remark about lack of development and I think that was particularly harsh. I do have a bit of insight into this area and I can see clear development in the likes of Nyambe, Lenihan, Williams, Travis, Rothwell, Armstrong and evenparts of Graham’s game since Mowbray came in. That’s not to mention the managers intense focus on the youth and the work he personally, And with the coaches do with Bucko, JRC, Butterworth, Magloire etc. I think his focus and ability to develop players is good.

As for the person who claimed he couldn’t possibly be able to develop a player because he was a ‘clogger’....wasn’t Klopp a defender? Mourinho a translator? SAF a defender? Nuno at Wolves a keeper? ....awkward.

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@Paul Mani i noticed you said earlier that you expect Buckley to be a regular starter by Christmas. If so, where does he play?

I personally dont think he'll be a regular starter for a good while yet, if ever.

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8 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

If he got a few goals and assists this season then Mowbray’s hand would be forced. He can’t defend so if he’s not making goals then personally I wouldn’t play him. The much maligned Benno has three assists so I’m not clear why Rothwell isn’t having a bigger impact when he is on. 

I don’t expect the manager to improve players - what can a clogger of a centre-half teach a flair player anyway? I expect him to sign better ones than he does.

It's double-standards. Because Bennett is a grafter and the club's mouthpiece, he's picked no matter how many goals he gives away.

Mowbray should let Rothwell (and Chapman) off the leash for a few games. It's impossible for players to establish any form if they're hauled off the moment they do one stepover too many.

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2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Rothwell is a class act. Bit his attributes seem to place him as a better impact sub than first team mainstay.
 

Id start with Holtby, Dack and Armstrong with Rothwell backing them up.

The managers comments this morning are interesting huh? Talking the academy up in particular Bucko (who, as I said earlier they fully expect to be starting games regularly in the new year). To me Mowbray  hints that he’s been to India to square off some transfer funds saying that the other young players are probably not ready to take them into the Premier league...yet.

Again I think this is a myth. I cant really remember him coming on and having a massive impact very often, whereas when he was starting games consecutively last season he very much was having a massive impact.

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

@Paul Mani i noticed you said earlier that you expect Buckley to be a regular starter by Christmas. If so, where does he play?

I personally dont think he'll be a regular starter for a good while yet, if ever.

Totally agree on Buckley. As much as I was happy for him as a young Academy lad scoring on Saturday, I have only seen evidence to suggest that he is quite a way off our first team.

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9 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

@Paul Mani i noticed you said earlier that you expect Buckley to be a regular starter by Christmas. If so, where does he play?

I personally dont think he'll be a regular starter for a good while yet, if ever.

Knowing TM on the right wing, instead of our right-winger (Chapman). 

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Not sure I would agree that Armstrong is developing well, an absolute waste of a shirt most weeks 

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His ultimate undoing if there is one will centre around his inability or more like his over loyalty in regards to getting in some better centre defenders and forming them into a solid functional unit. That goes hand in hand with his constant chopping and changing that goes against creating any kind of consistency across the team.

He's had time enough and backing enough for both nobody expects it to be perfect but it's the same carry on almost to when he came in and we got relegated. Transfers are always a lottery but Brereton aside which i think we all know is a seperate issue it's the ones he hasn't got in rather than the ones he has that's the real problem.

Edited by tomphil

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2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I agree. There’s no doubt that there’s huge question marks hanging over both Gally and BB based upon the fees we paid. I’d say it’s a 40/60 split, good to bad signings (Not good enough). Should the likes of those two kick on and the likes of Chapman, Davenport and Rothwell break into the first XI then I’d say he’d be more 70/30 which is pretty good in the market overall...but that’s a lot of IF’s.

I think Mowbrays eventual undoing will be his ability in the transfer market and inability to get the formula right (tactically) over a prolonged period.

I noted your remark about lack of development and I think that was particularly harsh. I do have a bit of insight into this area and I can see clear development in the likes of Nyambe, Lenihan, Williams, Travis, Rothwell, Armstrong and evenparts of Graham’s game since Mowbray came in. That’s not to mention the managers intense focus on the youth and the work he personally, And with the coaches do with Bucko, JRC, Butterworth, Magloire etc. I think his focus and ability to develop players is good.

As for the person who claimed he couldn’t possibly be able to develop a player because he was a ‘clogger’....wasn’t Klopp a defender? Mourinho a translator? SAF a defender? Nuno at Wolves a keeper? ....awkward.

Sir Alex was a centre forward

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10 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I don’t expect the manager to improve players - what can a clogger of a centre-half teach a flair player anyway? I expect him to sign better ones than he does.

I am normally with you on most things John but I can't agree with this. History is littered with examples of flair players being improved by 'cloggers' as you put it. And I most certainly do expect my manager to improve players. It was one of the things Mark Hughes - to pick just one example - excelled at during his time with Rovers.

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Sometimes, just giving the player the opportunity and freedom to express himself is all it takes to develop them. 

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Just now, Amo said:

Sometimes, just giving the player the opportunity and freedom to express himself is all it takes to develop them. 

Indeed - Exhibit A - David Bentley.

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I don't know where this Rothwell being more effective as an impact sub has come from, but I don't think it's true at all!

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2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

@Paul Mani i noticed you said earlier that you expect Buckley to be a regular starter by Christmas. If so, where does he play?

I personally dont think he'll be a regular starter for a good while yet, if ever.

He will finish up playing with Trav in the middle as a deep lying pivot. A Busquets type who has time on the ball. 
 

He will go on to play in the Prem. imo.

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Just now, K-Hod said:

I don't know where this Rothwell being more effective as an impact sub has come from, but I don't think it's true at all!

He was most effective last season and that was when he was starting games.

 

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Just now, K-Hod said:

I don't know where this Rothwell being more effective as an impact sub has come from, but I don't think it's true at all!

Probably just comes from watching the matches and the players performances mate. Opinions.

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1 hour ago, Amo said:

Sometimes, just giving the player the opportunity and freedom to express himself is all it takes to develop them. 

Happens in other sports too. Steve Diamond at Sale Sharks is a real old fashioned manager, often called a dinosaur, but he has brought through Tom Curry and reinvented Faf de Klerk who has just won the World Cup. A year or 2 ago de Klerk couldn't get in South Africas squad

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1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

He will finish up playing with Trav in the middle as a deep lying pivot. A Busquets type who has time on the ball. 
 

He will go on to play in the Prem. imo.

I'll take this bet, there is no way Travis & Buckley will be our two regular central midfielders by christmas, or even this season.

It would be madness anyway when we have Holtby on the books, he really should be in that position with Travis.

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2 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I am normally with you on most things John but I can't agree with this. History is littered with examples of flair players being improved by 'cloggers' as you put it. And I most certainly do expect my manager to improve players. It was one of the things Mark Hughes - to pick just one example - excelled at during his time with Rovers.

I think players have so many tools and so much analysis at their disposal these days that I look first to them to improve themselves. Can you learn from a good boss? Of course! I certainly did, but it wasn’t my boss’s fault if I didn’t improve. Plus players’ form ebbs and flows for all sorts of reasons. When Ridley went from scoring a dozen in his first season to not scoring in three years, we didn’t all blame Dalgleish for it. Rothwell is 24 not 19, he should be an established ten goals a year player. Maybe I’m wrong and someone will pay millions for him and make him the fulcrum of a top 6 team, but I doubt it.

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