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1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

When Kean was bulletproof, that was the closest I think I've ever been from giving up on football altogether. Every week the same old horrible performances and defeats but with owners with no desire to pull the trigger.

With Mowbray, we obviously haven't hit those depths but its hugely infuriating knowing the owners have no desire to sack him just because he's a nice bloke.

The absolute opposite of how they need to approach the situation.

Football is about 1 thing and 1 thing only, results.

My cut off point was when they appointed Coyle, I knew then we were due for another spell in the old Div 3. I stopped coming on here, didn't go to games, didn't read the match reports in the paper. I just looked for the scores on a Saturday and that was it.

I only got interested again when they sacked Coyle and appointed Lambert, Irvine and co.

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4 hours ago, Gav said:

Gents I hear you, I really do.

Todays Blackburn Rovers are much improved on the days of king rat, Agnew, Shaw and Singh.

Saying today is different to 70/80’s ignores that fact 5/6 clubs in this league have millions at their disposal, we can’t compete. 

On a personal level I’ve accepted that under our current owners we have gone as far as we can, regardless of who the manager is.

 

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

You’ve just contradicted yourself.

For that exact reason, we aren’t in any way improved, it’s just a lot quieter. Both in the boardroom and in the stands (COVID notwithstanding).

You are right though, we won’t change anything. We just have to hope that something does and sooner rather than later, certainly before we are dragged into a relegation fight, otherwise everything good Mowbray has done will be wasted.

We are stuck with Venkys until they decide otherwise but in a little corner of Blackburn there is still a bit of green field, with seats pointed at it, for people to watch football - with all of its emotion and drama. Venkys don’t influence what the players do on a match day, that’s down to the manager selecting, instructing and motivating them and the fans demanding the best from them. It doesn’t feel, right now, as though they are being selected, instructed or motivated well enough by the current manager. He has taken us as far as he is capable of, it just depends if Venkys have taken us as far as they want to.

Spot on Stuart we aren't improved and we are still at the whim of the most incompetent owners in football. If we can't improve any more with anyone at the helm because of the owners then we aren't in a good place at all! 

 

Also how are 5-6 clubs we can't compete with financially like the 80s? I don't follow that logic though admittedly not that au fait with 80s Rovers.

Firstly finance is seperate from competence. Competing financially is different to having competent people at the helm - two very different issues. 

Secondly how have these 5-6 clubs got a massive financial advantage over us? Brentford have never had more money than us - but they have done transfers well. Nothing we couldn't have done. No natural advantage over us. Also whilst parachute payments do make a huge difference remember we had that advantage and spunked it. Hard to cry foul when that's the case. Also I could be wrong but in getting to the Prem the first time round I'm fairly sure a number of these clubs did it on not overly huge budgets. Norwich have an advantage this time round but did they first time they went up? Likewise Huddersfield when they went up. 

Thirdly I'm not sure it's the case now that we can't compete. what about all those clubs that are competing with those we can't compete with? Preston till now have been at the door of the playoffs for a few seasons. Boro don't have huge amounts of money. Reading either. How do they manage it?! (And we are working on the assumption that the money the relegated clubs have is disposable income not tied up in weighty unhelpful contracts and the like.) Saying we can't compete is news to a whole host of clubs like Brentford, Boro and Reading to name three. It's a falicy and falsehood to protect those running the club from criticism. 

 

Also on this basis too I assume TM deserves no credit for getting us back to the championship because some clubs couldn't financially compete with us. 

Goodness it doesn't half grate when I hear this it is what is is just accept it guff. It erradicates blame from the owner and manager for giving us this disadvantage and excuses them not competing when we clearly, even if it's more difficult, can compete with them. It's crap standards in the club are so low. It's gutting when fans have those same aspirations. 

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6 hours ago, Gav said:

I  respect the views of every poster who wants to change the manager, my view is it will change nothing.

If you supported the club during the 70's/80's you'd probably have given up based on your comments above, we couldn't even pay the milkman at one point, it was 20yrs devoid of much success, but we enjoyed some and loved every minute when it happened. 

If you come to terms with the current predicament, the facts as we have them, then you'll be in a much better place. Nobody on here can change the manager, but more importantly nobody can change the owners and thats where the real problem lies. 

 

Im not sure how you managed to come to this conclusion. My point was even at our lowest ebbs in my life time and in even in times when it went against logic and reason, I have retained at least a bit of hope that things can get better.

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2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Who  ‘gave up’ in the 80s?

The club didn’t, couldn’t pay the leccy bill? Training on Pleasy and fishing balls out of the river as we couldn’t afford to replace them? Yep, but still no excuses and the club maintained standards, the result? Top end of the second tier for the majority of the time.

A club to be proud of. Compare and contrast to BRFC of 2021.

100% correct.

This bit ..... ''70's/80's ....... it was 20yrs devoid of much success'' especially annoying to me as it is completely fake.

Did I dream the Kendall years? was I not at Wembley for the FMC Cup win? did we not get into the Playoffs, often?

We were a great well run Club operating on buttons who make the current regime pale in comparison.

I suppose the argument against my view of this bullshit will be use of the word ''much'', it is no argument at all.

The condition of the Club in previous times to justify the current corrupt regime and its ineptitude is weak, a low shot and simply wrong.

 

 

Edited by AllRoverAsia
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3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Who  ‘gave up’ in the 80s?

The club didn’t, couldn’t pay the leccy bill? Training on Pleasy and fishing balls out of the river as we couldn’t afford to replace them? Yep, but still no excuses and the club maintained standards, the result? Top end of the second tier for the majority of the time.

A club to be proud of. Compare and contrast to BRFC of 2021.

In the 7o's/80's I felt, I was part of Blackburn Rovers. Now I feel taken for granted and I will not put up with that.

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2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

100% correct.

This bit ..... ''70's/80's ....... it was 20yrs devoid of much success'' especially annoying to me as it is completely fake.

Did I dream the Kendall years? was I not at Wembley for the FMC Cup win? did we not get into the Playoffs, often?

I suppose the argument against my view of this bullshit will be use of the word ''much'', it is no argument at all.

 

 

Fake?

Howard Kendall was here for 2 seasons Asia.

We got promoted from division 3 in 1975 and then duly got relegated again.

We got promoted from division 3 in 79/80 and remained in division 2 for 12yrs until 1992 (Yes we went Wembley in 87 and lost in the playoffs) Gates down to 5000......It was a period devoid of much success as the record shows.

Mowbray got us promoted from division 3!

The original point 99? and TS made was asking what is the point if you feel Venkys have taken the club as far as it can go, I made the point that we've had baron periods in the past, I felt abject despair under Saxton, but the point is you support the club, its in the blood.

Edited by Gav
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The point that came across from yourself was the two periods were the same situation. 

What's been highlighted was the massive difference in intent and competence of those running the club, even amidst poverty. That difference is huge and shows the two situations aren't like for like at all 

Also you are giving TM credit for his promotion. How so when teams just couldn't compete with us financially? Surely it was just a formalit. if it's an excuse for our malaise now it vetos any praise for TMs promotion by the same logic. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Our friends at Rovers Chat are soliciting opinions from people who want Mowbray out...some on here may wish to make contact I suspect...

CAF3794D-FA80-48EF-B86A-D1CB367E3959.png

FE73E260-FD8C-42CE-995D-AA3260D307F5.jpeg

Easy work...

 

The reason Tony Mowbray has to go is quite simple - repeatedly failing to learn from his mistakes. 

We all went into this season saying defence looked light. Questions where raised over Ayala’s injury record. But that isn’t the biggest issue. The biggest issue is Tony has been here before and never adapted - and most concerning, this has all happened before.

Celtic - taken from CelticUnderground.net

“The team had a habit of being changed from one week to the next.  The centre backs were rarely played together for long, either through poor form or injury.”

 

Tony also has a habit of questioning the players. Pushing the blame. In fact, he’s done it today in the LT. This isn’t a one off, remember ‘defenders are coming?’. In fact, it’s not just at this club: 

Celtic - taken from CelticUnderground.net

“This had come from a press interview in which Mowbray had said what most of the fans had been thinking – the players weren’t up to the job and big changes were required.”

 

We finished our last game playing 4-2-4, with four attacking players on the pitch. We’ve ended up in this position a few times this season, chasing down the game. 

It’s something Tony is used to - in his final games at Celtic, the Glasgow Times accused him of “having no plan B, ending the game at St Mirren with 6 strikers on the pitch.”

 

Rovers score enough, usually. Our problem is defence and leaking goals. We’re missing a consistent centre half to take command and pull us over the line - what we had originally hoped Lenihan would be, but gambled Ayala could be. 

Again, Tony is used to not sorting out the defence. After leaving Coventry, Mowbray said to The BBC: 

I probably let them down by not getting in the big 6ft 4in centre-half we were after, who could have been a man and help us keep clean sheets.

 

Let’s be very clear. The statistics show that, despite ‘better football’ and ‘increasing squad value’, this teams PPG is lower than 18/19 and 19/20. 

If you can find reason to believe any of these issues will be addressed, resulting in a top-six finish (Mowbray’s own target) - you’re much more optimistic than me. 

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1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

The point that came across from yourself was the two periods were the same situation. 

What's been highlighted was the massive difference in intent and competence of those running the club, even amidst poverty. That difference is huge and shows the two situations aren't like for like at all 

Also you are giving TM credit for his promotion. How so when teams just couldn't compete with us financially? Surely it was just a formalit. if it's an excuse for our malaise now it vetos any praise for TMs promotion by the same logic. 

 

 

We spent 12 seasons in division 2 from 1980 - 1992 - I never thought for one minute we'd end up in the 1st Division until Jack came along in 87/88. We have spent 3 season in division 2 under Mowbray, I also don't think for one minute under these owners we'll end up in the premiership, but we don't ever give up.

That is the point. Bb.

As for division 3 and our superior budget, the same applies in division 2, we can' t complete with the front runners budgets, is that a valid excuse like it was for promotion from div 3?

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

The club WAS successful in the 80s considering its means. A cup win, three play off campaigns (would’ve been more if they’d have been invented earlier) and we were rarely out of the top half - without a pot to piss in

You are doing the club of Bill Fox, Bancroft, Howarth, Kendall, Saxton, MacKay, Parkes a real disservice 

First of all I said 70's/80's was mostly devoid of success, which it was, but we never gave up, that was the point you and one of two others seem to have missed.

The final sentence is just rubbish.

 

Edited by Gav
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My two-penneth is such

I think Mowbray has perhaps taken this team as far as he can, his poor body language in recent weeks has become slightly alarming, slumped in his seat (or in the stand) his post match press conferences are becoming a bit of a parody, whilst results on the park have been ''more of the same.''

That all said, I do think he should be given until the end of the season.

And why? Well for the reasons why Blackburn Rovers is a club still on the mend and rebuild after the awful leadership and decisions made in the 2010s. The fragility of the hierarchy at the club, the rebuild still needed in various departments (scouting, coaching etc) and the civil unrest that still fractures the fanbase.

Given til the end of the season Mowbray will have had more than a fair crack at the whip, three full seasons back in the Championship, with his own players at his disposal, a fully fledged four and a half season run in charge from February 2018 - May 2021 is a lifetime in football, and ultimately I do believe at that stage the time will be right to move our separate ways, with the integrity of TM and the club very much intact. TM will leave a club in a much better scenario than the one he inherited, with foundations in place for a new face and fresh ideas to build on this. 

The mood and the data is trending very much against Mowbray being the man to lead us to the Premier League.

His current record with Rovers in the Championship stands at

P 130 W 46 D 35 L 46 for a record of 176 points off 130 games or 1.35 league points per game.

Over a full season this averages out to 62 points (1.35 x 46) which during his full seasons at the helm would be good enough (at Championship level) for

18/19 - 14th (we finished 15th with 60 points)

19/20 - 13th (we finished 11th with 63 points)

 

In 20/21 we are on course for a small improvement, currently we're on a pace of 1.39 points a game, which would put us on 64 points after 46 games.

60, 63, 64 a pattern indeed.

 

With Mowbray we're going to finish midtable, the data and the mood dictates that. Would a new manager be able to inspire the players to a playoff push over the final 23 games? Maybe, but you're asking a new manager to perform wonders straight away, and for what benefit?

 

The candidates? Paul Cook? Chris Coleman? Tony Pullis? Joey Barton? Damien Johnson?

 

Give Mowbray til the summer, shake his hand, thank him for his efforts. His role as manager during the 18/19 League One campaign will cement his Rovers legacy for a generation to come, plus he does seem a genuinely nice guy, which has been missing from Rovers for some time.

   

 

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Of course you never give up, ‘next year Rodders...’ and all that, but why would we have given up in the 80s anyway? The club was striving to be the very best it could be every season, and it did bloody well for a club of its means.

No, the last sentence is not ‘rubbish’ in the slightest, and I was surprised it needed pointing out to a fan as long standing as you, Gav. You seem to think the 80s were a decade in which we just had to ‘stick by’ an impoverished club scratching around, but BRFC was far more than the sum of its parts in those days as our league positions, players and cup wins showed, a club with a soul.

The crux of the argument being we are now owned by billionaires, with highly paid executives and we can’t even keep Ewood weed free and we have a pitch that wouldn’t look out of place up Blacksnape.

The 80s club had me proud as punch. In 2021 it is THIS version of Blackburn Rovers that merely needs ‘sticking with’, it is a hollowed out shell of a football ‘club’ and one day, when this shower finally fecks off, the club will need pulling up by it’s bootstraps and some semblance of a fanbase to pick up the pieces.

Edited by Mattyblue
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Just now, rog of the rovers said:

With Mowbray we're going to finish midtable, the data and the mood dictates that. Would a new manager be able to inspire the players to a playoff push over the final 23 games? Maybe, but you're asking a new manager to perform wonders straight away, and for what benefit?

 

Why 'wonders'? I just want a few more wins and fewer excuses. A better manager recruited now would have time to assess the squad. There's no logic in keeping someone  who you want to get rid of in the summer because he isn't good enough. 

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8 minutes ago, rog of the rovers said:

My two-penneth is such

I think Mowbray has perhaps taken this team as far as he can, his poor body language in recent weeks has become slightly alarming, slumped in his seat (or in the stand) his post match press conferences are becoming a bit of a parody, whilst results on the park have been ''more of the same.''

That all said, I do think he should be given until the end of the season.

And why? Well for the reasons why Blackburn Rovers is a club still on the mend and rebuild after the awful leadership and decisions made in the 2010s. The fragility of the hierarchy at the club, the rebuild still needed in various departments (scouting, coaching etc) and the civil unrest that still fractures the fanbase.

Given til the end of the season Mowbray will have had more than a fair crack at the whip, three full seasons back in the Championship, with his own players at his disposal, a fully fledged four and a half season run in charge from February 2018 - May 2021 is a lifetime in football, and ultimately I do believe at that stage the time will be right to move our separate ways, with the integrity of TM and the club very much intact. TM will leave a club in a much better scenario than the one he inherited, with foundations in place for a new face and fresh ideas to build on this. 

The mood and the data is trending very much against Mowbray being the man to lead us to the Premier League.

His current record with Rovers in the Championship stands at

P 130 W 46 D 35 L 46 for a record of 176 points off 130 games or 1.35 league points per game.

Over a full season this averages out to 62 points (1.35 x 46) which during his full seasons at the helm would be good enough (at Championship level) for

18/19 - 14th (we finished 15th with 60 points)

19/20 - 13th (we finished 11th with 63 points)

 

In 20/21 we are on course for a small improvement, currently we're on a pace of 1.39 points a game, which would put us on 64 points after 46 games.

60, 63, 64 a pattern indeed.

 

With Mowbray we're going to finish midtable, the data and the mood dictates that. Would a new manager be able to inspire the players to a playoff push over the final 23 games? Maybe, but you're asking a new manager to perform wonders straight away, and for what benefit?

 

The candidates? Paul Cook? Chris Coleman? Tony Pullis? Joey Barton? Damien Johnson?

 

Give Mowbray til the summer, shake his hand, thank him for his efforts. His role as manager during the 18/19 League One campaign will cement his Rovers legacy for a generation to come, plus he does seem a genuinely nice guy, which has been missing from Rovers for some time.

   

 

I would hope we could attract a better candidate than any of those, but that's the main risk with sacking Mowbray. 

Joey Barton though, why even name him? Lol 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel
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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would hope we could attract a better candidate than any of those, but that's the main risk with sacking Mowbray. 

Joey Barton though, why even name him? Lol 

I just went off the list of managers mentioned for the Sheffield Wednesday job.

Plus, I'd argue appointing Joey Barton would be less of a surprise than when we appointed C0yle

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2 minutes ago, rog of the rovers said:

I just went off the list of managers mentioned for the Sheffield Wednesday job.

Plus, I'd argue appointing Joey Barton would be less of a surprise than when we appointed C0yle

I would say Barton would be a far bigger shock and people would be very unhappy. Burnley links aside, many were cautiously optimistic about Coyle. 

They could certainly surprise us though! 

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16 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course you never give up, ‘next year Rodders...’ and all that, but why would we have given up in the 80s anyway? 

You missed the point again Matty.

I agree with you on most things, but we'll leave this one here. 

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27 minutes ago, Gav said:

We spent 12 seasons in division 2 from 1980 - 1992 - I never thought for one minute we'd end up in the 1st Division until Jack came along in 87/88. We have spent 3 season in division 2 under Mowbray, I also don't think for one minute under these owners we'll end up in the premiership, but we don't ever give up.

That is the point. Bb.

Thanks for clearing that up. It I am reading that right you are saying it's the same in terms of no expectations of going up in either circumstance? Fair enough I get that. 

Outside of that I'd say the situations are very different because of the owners competence and intent. At least you knew back then that the club was competently run and the owners want the best for us. Now it's just a shambles on all fronts. 

27 minutes ago, Gav said:

As for division 3 and our superior budget, the same applies in division 2, we can' t complete with the front runners budgets, is that a valid excuse like it was for promotion from div 3?

 

That's exactly my point - it isn't an excuse! I don't think it's an excuse either way. It doesn't detract from our League 1 success not does it exonorate our pitiful attempts at promotion under TM. I've never used the terms can't compete because my word one of the things I have loved most about Rovers as a smaller club is we have competed. Hughes and Souness eras the big boys knew they were in for.a hell of a rough time with us. There's another post of mine elsewhere which I won't fully repeat where I highlight the fallacy of not being able to compete. At present that's news to a host of clubs including Boro and Reading. It's harder yes but far, far from impossible. 

 

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