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January transfer window 2020

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On 24/01/2020 at 21:20, andyroversmad said:

Bit harsh on Holtby. He has scored 3 goals and got a couple of assists while Tony keeps playing him in different positions 

Very harsh on Holtby,.I like him we need to see more of him and perhaps another option than just Armstrong to aim for. . Still.one has to agree ToMo has not fared well spending our money.  Perhaps one could even suggest he has spent better but mis used what he bought.  Like buying a clothes dryer and trying to cook dinner in it.

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16 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

The gallagher bashing is a bit ridiculous imo, not many young lads join a team and start banging them in first season. What I see is a determination to work hard and learn. Has he paid off the 5 mill fee - not yet, but I think he will. He dropped down in level and wage to get game time, he isn’t content on sitting on a bench. Is he the finished article- no. Is he a natural finisher- no. But if he was he wouldn’t be here. What I would like to see is for him to be taught to get into scoring positions, when to make runs etc, I think that’s what he lacks. At times he is trying to do too much himself by dropping back. But that’s what the criticism of Rhodes was- all he done was finish, we can’t have it all. I have seen him score some cracking goals, I’m convinced he will come good, I ask for a bit of patience with him. Brereton is a different kettle of fish I’m afraid.....

Gallagher bashing? The discussion has been about where he has been sometimes playing, very ineffectively, and where Mowbray has suggested that he is being shown videos and analysis to try and further him as a winger, a position he has shown no signs of potential in.

Id suggest its pretty naive to expect a 24 year old to massively increase his ability to be able to sniff out chances. Hes not a natural goalscorer, he doesnt anticipate like a Rhodes, like a Dack or like a Graham. Working hard doesnt compensate for lack of goals which is what a striker will primarily be judged on and his tally so far is with the worst strikers in the league.

Id much rather have someone who can "only" score goals, even assuming that the implication is true (it isnt) that Gallagher has everything but that in his game and Rhodes can only do that.

You mention the price, when theres a natural goalscorer who does get goals at this level going for 4m then you have to ask questions.

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56 minutes ago, Mercer said:

If a player is worth £3million in the eyes of his existing club then you aint got a snowball's chance in hell of landing him with a derisory offer.  IMO, it's 'window dressing' for the fans and, sadly, many fans buy it thinking we are active in the market. 

Depends what we valued the players at always. Think some clubs put these valuation on players. I think Peterborough want 9 or 10 million pounds for Ivan Toney who hasn't done any higher than league 1. 

57 minutes ago, Mercer said:

IMO, we need a number 9 with a physical presence and Armstrong doesn't fit the bill.  I am far conviced by Armstrong - a speed merchant but, IMO, technically poor with a limited football brain.

I think playing with physical presence doesn't help at times as Opposition can push higher up. Armstrong playing gives us what we lacked up front for a while Pace and movement. 

 

58 minutes ago, Mercer said:

My thoughts - we might get one or two cheap loans in or a very low cash signing but there will be at least three out the door including at least one 'big beast'.

I don't us selling any of key players in this window. I see Samuel, Smallwood and possible Mulgrew

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4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Gallagher bashing? The discussion has been about where he has been sometimes playing, very ineffectively, and where Mowbray has suggested that he is being shown videos and analysis to try and further him as a winger, a position he has shown no signs of potential in.

Id suggest its pretty naive to expect a 24 year old to massively increase his ability to be able to sniff out chances. Hes not a natural goalscorer, he doesnt anticipate like a Rhodes, like a Dack or like a Graham. Working hard doesnt compensate for lack of goals which is what a striker will primarily be judged on and his tally so far is with the worst strikers in the league.

Id much rather have someone who can "only" score goals, even assuming that the implication is true (it isnt) that Gallagher has everything but that in his game and Rhodes can only do that.

You mention the price, when theres a natural goalscorer who does get goals at this level going for 4m then you have to ask questions.

You were criticising him, and pretty much writing him off already. Your saying strikers can’t learn and progress which is ridiculous. And yea not every striker is for scoring barrell loads of goals, it’s about how effective they are for the team. Also in his defence is that he is hardly getting great service from out wide 

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14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya,but he also played Conway, Bennett , Chapman, Downing there and I am sure I am forgetting others. Antonnsson and Armstrong certainly did the job there too. I don't think Gallagher should be there,but he did have a few decent games there and in fairness to the lad he works his bollox off.

I think he gets a very hard time here, particularly from yourself. You actually go as far as pretty much denying knowledge of the fact he scored 12 goals here first time around and repeatedly state that he can't score. 

 

He played Bennett and Conway there as "defensive wingers" which was another strange Mowbray fad that didnt result in an attacking threat. Chapman has started one league game under Mowbray. Downing is a good player but one who we need even more in 2 other positions so cannot play him wide.

No, I try not to recreate history that his goal tally even in that season was anything other than average, 1 goal every 4 games, and that was the highlight of his career. His overall Championship goal record is appalling. He gets a hard time from me because he statistically is one of the worst strikers in the division and does not merit a starting berth in our team.  

The fact that he works hard does not set him apart, the team in general tries its best but it doesnt in any way excuse him from not scoring enough goals. Its not even like when someone like Graham has a dry spell but still provides a focal point because he doesnt do that either.

I dont recall him having decent games out wide. He has played plenty of games (and played poorly) central but this wide forward experiment needs to be stopped immediately and I blame Mowbray solely for persisting with that.

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The recruitment of a European scout is an appointment which will hopefully pay dividends for years to come, not one transfer window. 

Edited by Tugayisgod

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2 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

This is an appointment which will hopefully pay dividends for years to come, not one transfer window. 

Always tomorrow, never today 

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Just now, Bbrovers2288 said:

You were criticising him, and pretty much writing him off already. Your saying strikers can’t learn and progress which is ridiculous. And yea not every striker is for scoring barrell loads of goals, it’s about how effective they are for the team. Also in his defence is that he is hardly getting great service from out wide 

Neither were Dack and Graham last season, but they are natural goalscorers. I am not saying that strikers cant learn, but the knack of goalscoring is somewhat a natural one.

I dont see much potential in him at all. What is he particularly good at to build around? Quite quick but not rapid, tall but not the best in the air, not a natural goalscorer. Id love him to turn into a good striker and goalscorer but id be surprised.

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58 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If it takes 6 months to appoint a scout, whatever the reason behind it, we might as well give up.

Well without knowing the facts I don't know how anyone can judge

43 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Mowbray is currently playing the wide forward system, and has done so, but that doesnt mean that he is right. The wide areas in my opinion have been an achilles heel throughout Mowbrays tenure. Antonsson had a bit of a hot spell there, Armstrong in very small patches, but aside from that, many of the other players that have been tested there have quite simply not been comfortable or effective there, Gallagher, Brereton, Samuel etc. Even more talented players like Holtby or to a far less extent, Jack Payne have been tried there with no success.

It is ok to go against the managers opinion and state that Gallagher is quite simply not fit to play wide, no matter how many videos he watches or "information he takes on board" it is not only hindering the team having him offering nothing there, but it is also disrupting the players development to be trying to mould him into something (at the age of 24) that he is never going to become a success at because he doesnt have the skillset or the subtlety to do that.

Whether we sign a winger or not this week, and if we dont get at least one that is a failure on the club and the manager, then Gallagher STILL should not be on the wing. It has been trialled and failed many times. All of the analysis and training for Gallagher should be based around him being a more effective striker than we have seen so far. In terms of wide positions, we are not strong in terms of proven quality in these areas, but whether it is the youth and natural width that Rankin Costello and Chapman can provide, the more proven outlets of Downing and Armstrong, (the main issue with these 2 is that we need the former in central midfield or left back and the latter up front) the pace and dribbling but ultimately repeatedly flattering to deceive Rothwell, or even in an emergency someone like Bennett (who I would hope is one that could be moved on in the next 5 days but doubt the manager will) they are all better options than Gallagher lumbering up and down and frustrating us all.

Regarding the cash bids, basically all that has been confirmed by the manager is that we are nowhere near the price tags that teams have set for their players, we may have some money but clearly it is barely any. 

And our players futures should have been sorted by the start of the month then they knew where they stand. I am not sure it makes much sense to keep involving Smallwood and Samuel around the first team squad to be honest.

Very harsh circitism of Armstrong playing wide when he is a striker but he had to play it cos of Graham and Dack partnership. Never moaned once. 

Maybe Rankin Costello would have got a chance earlier if he wasn't injured. 

Mowbray has said the team we want the player from valuation is too high and asking daft sort of money. 

Did we have any offers for Smallwood or Samuel at the start of the month? Its very easy looking at the situation from the outside without knowing the full truth about it. 

21 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

The gallagher bashing is a bit ridiculous imo, not many young lads join a team and start banging them in first season. What I see is a determination to work hard and learn. Has he paid off the 5 mill fee - not yet, but I think he will. He dropped down in level and wage to get game time, he isn’t content on sitting on a bench. Is he the finished article- no. Is he a natural finisher- no. But if he was he wouldn’t be here. What I would like to see is for him to be taught to get into scoring positions, when to make runs etc, I think that’s what he lacks. At times he is trying to do too much himself by dropping back. But that’s what the criticism of Rhodes was- all he done was finish, we can’t have it all. I have seen him score some cracking goals, I’m convinced he will come good, I ask for a bit of patience with him. Brereton is a different kettle of fish I’m afraid.....

for reference- gallagher has the same number of goals as Sam vokes this season who I regard as a very good striker. 

I agree with your points on Gallagher. 

Gallagher needs patience and he will come good. Took his goals very well against Preston, Sheff Utd and Sheff Wed. He can finish when given the chances

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Gallagher bashing? The discussion has been about where he has been sometimes playing, very ineffectively, and where Mowbray has suggested that he is being shown videos and analysis to try and further him as a winger, a position he has shown no signs of potential in.

Id suggest its pretty naive to expect a 24 year old to massively increase his ability to be able to sniff out chances. Hes not a natural goalscorer, he doesnt anticipate like a Rhodes, like a Dack or like a Graham. Working hard doesnt compensate for lack of goals which is what a striker will primarily be judged on and his tally so far is with the worst strikers in the league.

Id much rather have someone who can "only" score goals, even assuming that the implication is true (it isnt) that Gallagher has everything but that in his game and Rhodes can only do that.

You mention the price, when theres a natural goalscorer who does get goals at this level going for 4m then you have to ask questions.

tbf pal, You do bash Gallagher at every opportunity you get. 

Gallagher is a different type of striker to Rhodes or Graham. 

I rather have a striker who put in shift every week and gives 100% and willing to work at his game and played out of position for the team if needs must. 

Rhodes aint coming back. We don't pay 35k a week anymore to players. 

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3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Always tomorrow, never today 

Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture, no matter how we all want it today. 

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3 hours ago, Doaksie said:

Mulgrew, Smallwood, Graham come to mind as feasible. 

I'd personally be upset if Graham featured on the list.

And maybe Davenport but not sure he qualifies as big.

If we are boracic then we absolutely have to try to move on Mulgrew, Smallwood and Samuel - and loan out Brereton.

Four players who we wouldn’t miss and/or could probably cover out of the U23s.

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The 5 nill win the other week seems to make fans think the Rovers have turned a corner . The weakness in the team are still there  for all too see a left back a right winger and a keeper are still needed . But TM took lads away for a jolly, well if a week in sun makes Williams and Bennett and Walton into championship players im taking my under fifteens away next week

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4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well without knowing the facts I don't know how anyone can judge

Very harsh circitism of Armstrong playing wide when he is a striker but he had to play it cos of Graham and Dack partnership. Never moaned once. 

Maybe Rankin Costello would have got a chance earlier if he wasn't injured. 

Mowbray has said the team we want the player from valuation is too high and asking daft sort of money. 

Did we have any offers for Smallwood or Samuel at the start of the month? Its very easy looking at the situation from the outside without knowing the full truth about it. 

I agree with your points on Gallagher. 

Gallagher needs patience and he will come good. Took his goals very well against Preston, Sheff Utd and Sheff Wed. He can finish when given the chances

tbf pal, You do bash Gallagher at every opportunity you get. 

Gallagher is a different type of striker to Rhodes or Graham. 

I rather have a striker who put in shift every week and gives 100% and willing to work at his game and played out of position for the team if needs must. 

Rhodes aint coming back. We don't pay 35k a week anymore to players. 

So you'd rather have a striker that scores 5 goals a season than a 20 goal a year man? Come off it Chaddy. You're only saying that because we haven't got a reasonably prolific scorer other than Dack and you're sticking up for the bloke Mowbray actually signed. If Mowbray unearthed such a player on the cheap you'd be the first to pipe up about what a masterstroke it was and how it was just the thing we'd been missing.

For what it's worth I agree with Rovers fan 99 on Gallagher. I was dead against his return in the first place and what I've seen since hasn't altered my opinion. I cant see anything in him at all  let alone at £5m.

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16 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

The recruitment of a European scout is an appointment which will hopefully pay dividends for years to come, not one transfer window. 

That would have been all well and good to say 12 months ago, when this appointment should actually have been made. Then we would now be talking about the dividends.

Like I said before, we should just go out of our way to steal Brentford's France scout.

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42 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

The gallagher bashing is a bit ridiculous imo, not many young lads join a team and start banging them in first season. What I see is a determination to work hard and learn. Has he paid off the 5 mill fee - not yet, but I think he will. He dropped down in level and wage to get game time, he isn’t content on sitting on a bench. Is he the finished article- no. Is he a natural finisher- no. But if he was he wouldn’t be here. What I would like to see is for him to be taught to get into scoring positions, when to make runs etc, I think that’s what he lacks. At times he is trying to do too much himself by dropping back. But that’s what the criticism of Rhodes was- all he done was finish, we can’t have it all. I have seen him score some cracking goals, I’m convinced he will come good, I ask for a bit of patience with him. Brereton is a different kettle of fish I’m afraid.....

for reference- gallagher has the same number of goals as Sam vokes this season who I regard as a very good striker. 

People talk of him as young. Shearer had scored a hat trick on his debut, played for England, transferred for a record fee, got a career threatening injury, overcome a career threatening injury and was lifting the Premier League trophy at his age.

Gallagher has already played more than half the amount of games that Big Al did for us - so it's about time he learned the basics of striking.

 

 

...of course I'm mischief making but it is all true.

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13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well without knowing the facts I don't know how anyone can judge

Very harsh circitism of Armstrong playing wide when he is a striker but he had to play it cos of Graham and Dack partnership. Never moaned once. 

Maybe Rankin Costello would have got a chance earlier if he wasn't injured. 

Mowbray has said the team we want the player from valuation is too high and asking daft sort of money. 

Did we have any offers for Smallwood or Samuel at the start of the month? Its very easy looking at the situation from the outside without knowing the full truth about it. 

I agree with your points on Gallagher. 

Gallagher needs patience and he will come good. Took his goals very well against Preston, Sheff Utd and Sheff Wed. He can finish when given the chances

tbf pal, You do bash Gallagher at every opportunity you get. 

Gallagher is a different type of striker to Rhodes or Graham. 

I rather have a striker who put in shift every week and gives 100% and willing to work at his game and played out of position for the team if needs must. 

Rhodes aint coming back. We don't pay 35k a week anymore to players. 

If the summit of your expectations is not moaning and trying their best, and you turn a blind eye to strikers not scoring goals and the manager playing players in incorrect and uncomfortable positions then thats up to you. I want my strikers to score goals and I want players working effectively in their natural positions. More fool me.

But it isnt needs must? We have actual wide men at the club. 

You are the absolute master at taking a point off tangent to hide something. Apparently being linked with players and then the manager saying that we are nowhere near asking prices is proof that the money is there to spend.

If we cant judge or discuss anything "without knowing the full facts" whatever thag means then lets all not form opinions and instead close the messageboard. I can see with my own eyes that Gallagher cannot play effectively out wide and when he has been up front his goalscoring record has been dismal. But as long as he shuts up and doesnt publically berate the manager for it and he tries his best I am not within my rights to expect any more!

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3 minutes ago, stinny1 said:

The 5 nill win the other week seems to make fans think the Rovers have turned a corner . The weakness in the team are still there  for all too see a left back a right winger and a keeper are still needed . But TM took lads away for a jolly, well if a week in sun makes Williams and Bennett and Walton into championship players im taking my under fifteens away next week

Turn the corner, three steps forward and one back, we could add more but one true point is that we play in a league where results are unpredictable and the next 18 games will continue with surprise results. I've been critical of TM before but if we don't have the money anymore to buy decent players etc lets see if 4 days sun gives us a result.

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15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He played Bennett and Conway there as "defensive wingers" which was another strange Mowbray fad that didnt result in an attacking threat. Chapman has started one league game under Mowbray. Downing is a good player but one who we need even more in 2 other positions so cannot play him wide.

No, I try not to recreate history that his goal tally even in that season was anything other than average, 1 goal every 4 games, and that was the highlight of his career. His overall Championship goal record is appalling. He gets a hard time from me because he statistically is one of the worst strikers in the division and does not merit a starting berth in our team.  

The fact that he works hard does not set him apart, the team in general tries its best but it doesnt in any way excuse him from not scoring enough goals. Its not even like when someone like Graham has a dry spell but still provides a focal point because he doesnt do that either.

I dont recall him having decent games out wide. He has played plenty of games (and played poorly) central but this wide forward experiment needs to be stopped immediately and I blame Mowbray solely for persisting with that.

Statistics tell you one side of a story but actually watching a player tell you more. 

Not every striker is a 20 a goal striker either. Gallagher isn't a focal point type of striker. We are trying to move on from playing that way and playing differently and using Armstrong pace and movement so allow Holtby and Rothwell more space to creative 

15 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

The recruitment of a European scout is an appointment which will hopefully pay dividends for years to come, not one transfer window. 

hopefully this an appointment for a number of years 

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Neither were Dack and Graham last season, but they are natural goalscorers. I am not saying that strikers cant learn, but the knack of goalscoring is somewhat a natural one.

I dont see much potential in him at all. What is he particularly good at to build around? Quite quick but not rapid, tall but not the best in the air, not a natural goalscorer. Id love him to turn into a good striker and goalscorer but id be surprised.

Not every striker has to be natural goalscorer. Look at Barnes at Burnley or Vokes at Stoke or Matt Smith at Millwall. All example of players who aren't natural goalscorer but are good strikers at this level. 

Look at the goals he has scored in his 2 spells here and that's type of striker he is. 2 good headers at Preston results in 2 goals even tho 1 was a own goal, His header goal at Sheff Utd in the cup and the Goal at Sheff Wed which he put it away very well running onto the ball. 

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20 hours ago, Mercer said:

and, in the main, that's why players don't develop at Rovers.

IMO, Mowbray hinders young players as opposed to helping them.

Brereton's confidence is shot whilst, largely, Gallagher is played out of position.  Whose fault is that !?!?

Spot on there Merc.

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1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Statistics tell you one side of a story but actually watching a player tell you more. 

Not every striker is a 20 a goal striker either. Gallagher isn't a focal point type of striker. We are trying to move on from playing that way and playing differently and using Armstrong pace and movement so allow Holtby and Rothwell more space to creative 

hopefully this an appointment for a number of years 

Not every striker has to be natural goalscorer. Look at Barnes at Burnley or Vokes at Stoke or Matt Smith at Millwall. All example of players who aren't natural goalscorer but are good strikers at this level. 

Look at the goals he has scored in his 2 spells here and that's type of striker he is. 2 good headers at Preston results in 2 goals even tho 1 was a own goal, His header goal at Sheff Utd in the cup and the Goal at Sheff Wed which he put it away very well running onto the ball. 

I have watched Gallagher as much as you so stop being patronising. You are quick to tell me what he is not as a striker but not what he is good at? Bar working hard and not moaning. Matt Smith and Sam Vokes are average but they have very specific talents, they are both very good in the air. Limited players but they have a clear, well defined strength. All in all though, the main priority regarding a striker is how many goals he can get. 

His goals may have been good but its about quantity, not quality. He needs to score more goals and he should never, ever be played out wide.

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1 hour ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

The gallagher bashing is a bit ridiculous imo, not many young lads join a team and start banging them in first season. What I see is a determination to work hard and learn. Has he paid off the 5 mill fee - not yet, but I think he will. He dropped down in level and wage to get game time, he isn’t content on sitting on a bench. Is he the finished article- no. Is he a natural finisher- no. But if he was he wouldn’t be here. What I would like to see is for him to be taught to get into scoring positions, when to make runs etc, I think that’s what he lacks. At times he is trying to do too much himself by dropping back. But that’s what the criticism of Rhodes was- all he done was finish, we can’t have it all. I have seen him score some cracking goals, I’m convinced he will come good, I ask for a bit of patience with him. Brereton is a different kettle of fish I’m afraid.....

for reference- gallagher has the same number of goals as Sam vokes this season who I regard as a very good striker. 

The dingles got rid of Vokes at the right time. His best days are behind him now. I thought he was a poor signing for Stoke.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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5 minutes ago, Pedro said:

People talk of him as young. Shearer had scored a hat trick on his debut, played for England, transferred for a record fee, got a career threatening injury, overcome a career threatening injury and was lifting the Premier League trophy at his age.

Gallagher has already played more than half the amount of games that Big Al did for us - so it's about time he learned the basics of striking.

 

 

...of course I'm mischief making but it is all true.

Comparing Shearer to Gallagher is just daft. Shearer is one off striker. Best Striker in the PL history and I don't think I've ever seen a better striker in my lifetime

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If the summit of your expectations is not moaning and trying their best, and you turn a blind eye to strikers not scoring goals and the manager playing players in incorrect and uncomfortable positions then thats up to you. I want my strikers to score goals and I want players working effectively in their natural positions. More fool me.

But it isnt needs must? We have actual wide men at the club. 

You are the absolute master at taking a point off tangent to hide something. Apparently being linked with players and then the manager saying that we are nowhere near asking prices is proof that the money is there to spend.

If we cant judge or discuss anything "without knowing the full facts" whatever thag means then lets all not form opinions and instead close the messageboard. I can see with my own eyes that Gallagher cannot play effectively out wide and when he has been up front his goalscoring record has been dismal. But as long as he shuts up and doesnt publically berate the manager for it and he tries his best I am not within my rights to expect any more!

Why would Mowbray lie about making cash bids for players? 

Well you cant make comments like why didn't Samuel and Smallwood leave at the start of the month without knowing if they was any offers for them. 

Like I keep telling you not every striker is natural goalscorer and you can see the type of striker he is with the goals he scores.

Do what you want pal, I not bothered

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2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I have watched Gallagher as much as you so stop being patronising. You are quick to tell me what he is not as a striker but not what he is good at? Bar working hard and not moaning. Matt Smith and Sam Vokes are average but they have very specific talents, they are both very good in the air. Limited players but they have a clear, well defined strength. All in all though, the main priority regarding a striker is how many goals he can get. 

His goals may have been good but its about quantity, not quality. He needs to score more goals and he should never, ever be played out wide.

Back to the same old lines about being Patronising cos no one is being so apart from yourself. 

I have told you plenty on here and other social media sites but you just don't listened so I aint bothering anyone. Utter pointless debating with you when you are acting like this. 

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