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GunnerRover7

January transfer window 2020

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1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Does the fact that window after window flies by and we still need reinforcement in the same positions we always did not tell you something?

I would take exactly the opposite stance to you, I dont think the criticism of Mowbray has been anywhere near strong enough to date, he's tended to get pretty much a free ride due to the fact he brought us back up to the division from which he failed to prevent us being relegated at the first time of asking and his nice guy persona.

I think that has changed slightly with the injury to Dack which has put his other dealings in perspective and brought home the potential ramifications of money being squandered and FFP sanctions looming on the horizon

 

As a few have pointed out in the past there are grounds for believing that under the present owners the manager - whoever it is - faces some constraints as to what positions transfer fees can be applied to so it is not a great surprise if we need reinforcements in the same positions.

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5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Does the fact that window after window flies by and we still need reinforcement in the same positions we always did not tell you something?

I would take exactly the opposite stance to you, I dont think the criticism of Mowbray has been anywhere near strong enough to date, he's tended to get pretty much a free ride due to the fact he brought us back up to the division from which he failed to prevent us being relegated at the first time of asking and his nice guy persona.

I think that has changed slightly with the injury to Dack which has put his other dealings in perspective and brought home the potential ramifications of money being squandered and FFP sanctions looming on the horizon

 

I think the threat of FFP sanctions are being over stated on here and now used as gospel. I wouldn't say we are under any immanent threat. No doubt our recruitment needs to get better and not signing players early in windows is annoying, but we certainly aren't unique in that regard. For all the negativity and criticism of his transfers, both Downing and Tosin have improved us this season. Of course those who want to find an angle to criticize say that Tosin is a loan and Downing 35. I have no doubt if both played for PNE, people would be asking why didn't Mowbray sign them. We were unlucky with Cunningham too, another excellent signing. 

Mowbray certainly doesn't get an easy ride on here. I don't see how you can claim that he does. 

 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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11 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Great player, just at a stats level he's the best player in the league for so many key metrics.

Yes - he is way ahead in the Championship on the whoscored.com website

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4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Jesus don't I know. It's like an invisible force-field/barrier. Is it something legitimately psychological or is it just that we are unlucky or not good enough? I don't know to be honest. 

I feel like its the latter. At our best, we end up 3 or 4 points away, at worst quite a bit away. We never occasionally break into the top 6 and fall back out ie are genuinely in and around as a contender. I dont necessarily think theres a psychological block, we are just a bit away.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

I feel like its the latter. At our best, we end up 3 or 4 points away, at worst quite a bit away. We never occasionally break into the top 6 and fall back out ie are genuinely in and around as a contender. I dont necessarily think theres a psychological block, we are just a bit away.

I'm not sure because we can beat anyone on our day (and lose in the same fashion) , so I mean we could be 3 points off at some point and conceivabley have a winnable game. I am pretty sure teams have gotten into the play-offs at the last minute having not been there all season before that. 

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15 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The overall situation is that steady improvement is being made - as evidenced by our league position.

What evidence is that?

We finished 15th last season and are only one win or 3 points ahead of that mark this far.

If we were to lose the next three and we dropped to 16th would that be conclusive proof we were heading in the wrong direction?

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2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What evidence is that?

We finished 15th last season and are only one win or 3 points ahead of that mark this far.

If we were to lose the next three and we dropped to 16th would that be conclusive proof we were heading in the wrong direction?

Do you want conclusive proof? 

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1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

What evidence is that?

We finished 15th last season and are only one win or 3 points ahead of that mark this far.

If we were to lose the next three and we dropped to 16th would that be conclusive proof we were heading in the wrong direction?

I'm looking at the facts not what if's. Your mind is made up on everything - the team,managers, individual players - with very little attention to what actually happens.

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8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think the threat of FFP sanctions are being over stated on here and now used as gospel. I wouldn't say we are under any immanent threat. No doubt our recruitment needs to get better and not signing players early in windows is annoying, but we certainly aren't unique in that regard. For all the negativity and criticism of his transfers, both Downing and Tosin have improved us this season. Of course those who want to find an angle to criticize say that Tosin is a loan and Downing 35. I have no doubt if both played for PNE, people would be asking why didn't Mowbray sign them. We were unlucky with Cunningham too, another excellent signing. 

Mowbray certainly doesn't get an easy ride on here. I don't see how you can claim that he does. 

 

Tosin has been ok and Downing has been very good considering his age and how little was expected of him. But neither have been the sort of stellar successes that will push us to promotion.  Then you have to remember that Tosin will not be our player next season and Downing probably only has this season and next in him so decent signings but by no means exceptional.

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Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Tosin has been ok and Downing has been very good considering his age and how little was expected of him. But neither have been the sort of stellar successes that will push us to promotion.  Then you have to remember that Tosin will not be our player next season and Downing probably only has this season and next in him so decent signings but by no means exceptional.

Tosin has been better than ok and Downing has been a revelation. I think some of us expected him to decent, but then some don't automatically expect the worst with every player we sign! He has performed consistently in a number of positions. 

It doesn't matter. My point was they have improved us this season. If they played for PNE some on here would be asking "why didn't Mowbray sign them?". 

Some need to find an angle to criticize everything Mowbray does now and all of his signings. 

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5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I'm looking at the facts not what if's. Your mind is made up on everything - the team,managers, individual players - with very little attention to what actually happens.

I am paying attention to everything that is happening.

I'm not taking a temporary screenshot of our League position on a given day and citing it as evidence of major improvement because we're one win ahead of the position we finished in last season!

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2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I am paying attention to everything that is happening.

I'm not taking a temporary screenshot of our League position on a given day and citing it as evidence of major improvement because we're one win ahead of the position we finished in last season!

Your problem is that if it doesn't suit, you won't even be taking a screenshot after we've played 46 games.

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3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I am paying attention to everything that is happening.

I'm not taking a temporary screenshot of our League position on a given day and citing it as evidence of major improvement because we're one win ahead of the position we finished in last season!

But no doubt you would be referencing our league position if we were near relegation! 

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3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Tosin has been better than ok and Downing has been a revelation. I think some of us expected him to decent, but then some don't automatically expect the worst with every player we sign! He has performed consistently in a number of positions. 

It doesn't matter. My point was they have improved us this season. If they played for PNE some on here would be asking "why didn't Mowbray sign them?". 

Some need to find an angle to criticize everything Mowbray does now and all of his signings. 

If they played for PNE and PNE had occupied the same League positions as we have week on week this season I don't think our fans or anyone else's for that matter would be in the least bit worried about why we or they hadn't signed them.

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Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

If they played for PNE and PNE had occupied the same League positions as we have week on week this season I don't think our fans or anyone else's for that matter would be in the least bit worried about why we or they hadn't signed them.

So the players performances wouldn't matter? 

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1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, some of you would. Even without having seen him play. 

Anyway, looks like you were proven right in this instance. 

I watched the " Highlights " video over and over. What was obvious from that video for those with eyes that see was he was never going to be more than a peripheral player in the immediate future. It told me there were more things he couldn't do than things he could do. We wanted a " Now " striker not a possible investment years down the line. Football is all about what happens in the next three months not the next three years.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I watched the " Highlights " video over and over. What was obvious from that video for those with eyes that see was he was never going to be more than a peripheral player in the immediate future. It told me there were more things he couldn't do than things he could do. We wanted a " Now " striker not a possible investment years down the line. Football is all about what happens in the next three months not the next three years.

The same way as I wouldn't get too excited about a player from their highlights, I wouldn't write one off either. 

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1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The same way as I wouldn't get too excited about a player from their highlights, I wouldn't write one off either. 

I didn't exactly write him off although I had grave doubts about him as a footballer. I just thought he wasn't what we needed at that moment in time, especially when we were betting the ranch on him.

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3 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Your problem is that if it doesn't suit, you won't even be taking a screenshot after we've played 46 games.

Well, at the end of the season it's probably fair to use the table as some sort of guide as to whether we're improving or not.

For me anything worse than finishing a point or two outside the play offs has to be construed as failure. I don't see that a marginal improvement on an unsatisfactory 15th position to say 13th or 14th represents satisfactory progress.

The final finishing position remains to be seen. The point I was objecting to was citing something as slender and potentially fleeting as a three point gap as evidence of genuine improvement.

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5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Well, at the end of the season it's probably fair to use the table as some sort of guide as to whether we're improving or not.

For me anything worse than finishing a point or two outside the play offs has to be construed as failure. I don't see that a marginal improvement on an unsatisfactory 15th position to say 13th or 14th represents satisfactory progress.

The final finishing position remains to be seen. The point I was objecting to was citing something as slender and potentially fleeting as a three point gap as evidence of genuine improvement.

But if we were 3 points off relegation you would use that as evidence of regression, correct? 

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8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

But if we were 3 points off relegation you would use that as evidence of regression, correct? 

Probably, but if we were only three points off relegation we'd be ten points, not three, behind 15th so the "evidence" would be a lot more compelling!

To further illustrate my point, if we were ten points clear of 15th, currently, that would place us in 4th or 5th and even I would have to concede that was clear evidence of improvement.

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28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Tosin has been better than ok and Downing has been a revelation. I think some of us expected him to decent, but then some don't automatically expect the worst with every player we sign! He has performed consistently in a number of positions. 

It doesn't matter. My point was they have improved us this season. If they played for PNE some on here would be asking "why didn't Mowbray sign them?". 

Some need to find an angle to criticize everything Mowbray does now and all of his signings. 

And as it stands neither Tosin nor Downing will be here for pre-season. So as well as they might be doing we are going to have a problem.

I always think that you need a settled spine to you team and a settled back 4. Not just for a few games but a few seasons. We've neither. Because we've refused to deal with those positions preferring to take the cheap and easy route by loading up on loans for 12 months.

Recruitment goes beyond filling in gaps, there has to be a medium to long term build.

Come summer time we will have no senior keeper, 1 good enough CB, no good enough LB. Mulgrew cast adrift whilst still on a big contract for another 12 months.

Midfield - Travis is great, Downing great but out of contract, Johnson meh, Evans an unknown with his injury. 

Up top another mess still not got sorted out and Dack in the treatment room.

Doesn't strike me as evolution but revolution. That isnt what Mowbray said would happen.

 

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2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Probably, but if we were only three points off relegation we'd be ten points, not three, behind 15th so the "evidence" would be a lot more compelling!

To further illustrate my point, if we were ten points clear of 15th, currently, that would place us in 4th or 5th and even I would have to concede that was clear evidence of improvement.

You are moving the goalposts to fit into your viewpoint 

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2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And as it stands neither Tosin nor Downing will be here for pre-season. So as well as they might be doing we are going to have a problem.

I always think that you need a settled spine to you team and a settled back 4. Not just for a few games but a few seasons. We've neither. Because we've refused to deal with those positions preferring to take the cheap and easy route by loading up on loans for 12 months.

Recruitment goes beyond filling in gaps, there has to be a medium to long term build.

Come summer time we will have no senior keeper, 1 good enough CB, no good enough LB. Mulgrew cast adrift whilst still on a big contract for another 12 months.

Midfield - Travis is great, Downing great but out of contract, Johnson meh, Evans an unknown with his injury. 

Up top another mess still not got sorted out and Dack in the treatment room.

Doesn't strike me as evolution but revolution. That isnt what Mowbray said would happen.

 

Even what you say there doesn't sound like that huge a job. A GK, yep, no doubt. Another CB for sure. I suspect Mulgrew will only be here until summer before a mutual termination. 

I would expect Evans to be back next season., Downing likewise. We have a lot of CMs in the under 23s with potential. 

Armstrong is doing well up there, Holtby looks like he could cover for Dack. JRC, Chapman and Butterworth all have great potential. 

We have to give youth a chance at some point. 3-5 quality signings to help them out. All very realistic. Not as bad as some of you are making out at all. 

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1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

The reason why Mowbray has to go

Well thats your opinion

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, we aren't signing 9 players between this window and next summer. Sorry to be the one baring the bad news! 

Why? 

We signed 2 now in this window which we could and didnt we sign 7 players this past summer(Gallagher, Downing, Holtby, Walton, Cunningham, Adarabioyo, Johnson)? 

Plus I think Downing will re-sign this season for another season. 

Edited by chaddyrovers

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