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January transfer window 2020

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41 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

There’s a big difference between ‘not having a treasure chest’ and being skint.

There’s no pressure to sell anyone and contrary to what some have said on here the club had no knowledge / intention to sell Dack to WBA this Jan.

Suits to lower expectations and pressure by convincing everyone that we are skint and can't afford to sign anyone/sack a failing manager so might as well cart on with what we have and hope for the best.

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Smallwood and Downing were essentially temporary signings, who contributed when we needed them, in terms of the squads shape at the moment, Smallwood overall was a success as part of the initial process to get here but is now lingering as unwanted deadwood for the next 6 months, of no use to the first team as many of the hangers on where when Mowbray returned. Antonsson too. In terms of a squad rebuild, add Reed who has gone and Adarabioyo and Downing who are short team deals and you would say all 6 are fairly successful to varying degrees in terms of doing a job short term but dont contribute towards a rebuild.

@JoeH most of them look correct, Leutwiler has been a definite failure who has let us down basically everytime he has come in, Bell has been a weakness throughout his time here and Samuel (some for reasons out of his control) has not scored a League goal for 2 years. All 3 have to be failures for me. Rodwell had a few decent games but would do well to cling on to average status. Johnson has been a big dissapointment but has had 2 or 3 good games so is perhaps in the grey area between average and poor. Rothwell is similar, has talent but an enigma with no end product, and Holtby I think should be a regular now but again as of yet hes got it all to prove.

 

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1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Does anyone On here actually think he is close to the sack? Just wishful thinking from what I can see.

Of course Venky's aren’t skint, but FFP not an issue then?

No he's not close to the sack at all. 

FFP is an issue for every club at this league. Leeds had to sell Jansson to bring in players this summer. Same at West Brom

1 hour ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Scott McKenna is a name I plucked out of total thin air during the summer. 😂

Could fit the TM and Venky philosophy of selling our best (fit) player for circa £8m-10m (Lenihan) and replacing him with a player for a few million less which can go into the black hole/debt fund.

I do think there could be some decent defenders north of the border and the SPL should be a market we look at more seriously. Look at what we missed out on with John McGinn.

I know, for every Goodwillie there is a bad one... but McGinn, Van Dyjk, (Mulgrew) etc prove that league has splatters of quality which translate well, especially for clubs like ours, in this league. McKenna, Souttar, Ajer are all in that bracket for me.

Someone mention Ryan Porteous from Hibs. What your views on him? 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I think him not getting the sack is fairly obvious, under his mate he has a cushy long term job.

Regarding skint, are you sure?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18132327.no-treasure-chest-rovers-spend-january-window/

"But we’re not sat here sitting here with a treasure chest to be able to bring lots of players in."

The club has a budget and we have within the FFP requirements. 

We have some players who need to leave this window like Smallwood, Samuel, Hart. 

Rich Sharpe has tweet they will be a Smallwood story in tomorrow paper.

Mowbray job is under threat from then Owners. Waggott can't sack Mowbray without the Owners authorisation just like it would be under any owner or even yourself if you owned the club

Edited by chaddyrovers

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9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Smallwood and Downing were essentially temporary signings, who contributed when we needed them, in terms of the squads shape at the moment, Smallwood overall was a success as part of the initial process to get here but is now lingering as unwanted deadwood for the next 6 months, of no use to the first team as many of the hangers on where when Mowbray returned. Antonsson too. In terms of a squad rebuild, add Reed who has gone and Adarabioyo and Downing who are short team deals and you would say all 6 are fairly successful to varying degrees in terms of doing a job short term but dont contribute towards a rebuild.

@JoeH most of them look correct, Leutwiler has been a definite failure who has let us down basically everytime he has come in, Bell has been a weakness throughout his time here and Samuel (some for reasons out of his control) has not scored a League goal for 2 years. All 3 have to be failures for me. Rodwell had a few decent games but would do well to cling on to average status. Johnson has been a big dissapointment but has had 2 or 3 good games so is perhaps in the grey area between average and poor. Rothwell is similar, has talent but an enigma with no end product, and Holtby I think should be a regular now but again as of yet hes got it all to prove.

 

I disagree completely about Smallwood. He came in, was a star in League One and without him I think there's a real chance we wouldn't have got 2nd place. He was top quality in that division, and for the cost/wage he was on, he was a great signing. Antonsson on a year long loan was a great bit of business, scored some key goals especially away from home, and helped relieve strain going forward on some of our other key players, far from a bad signing for the cost of bringing him here. 

Bradley Johnson is not a flop, that's what the red category was described as, and that's just completely ridiculous to say he's flopped. He's been okay, not great, but far from a flop. 

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4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I disagree completely about Smallwood. He came in, was a star in League One and without him I think there's a real chance we wouldn't have got 2nd place. He was top quality in that division, and for the cost/wage he was on, he was a great signing. Antonsson on a year long loan was a great bit of business, scored some key goals especially away from home, and helped relieve strain going forward on some of our other key players, far from a bad signing for the cost of bringing him here. 

Bradley Johnson is not a flop, that's what the red category was described as, and that's just completely ridiculous to say he's flopped. He's been okay, not great, but far from a flop. 

Johnson is a footballer, however he needs to move into the area because commuting from Blackburn to Derby is too much, too much for anyone let alone an athlete.  For his own sake he must make up his mind if he should embrace us or simply move on.

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5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I disagree completely about Smallwood. He came in, was a star in League One and without him I think there's a real chance we wouldn't have got 2nd place. He was top quality in that division, and for the cost/wage he was on, he was a great signing. Antonsson on a year long loan was a great bit of business, scored some key goals especially away from home, and helped relieve strain going forward on some of our other key players, far from a bad signing for the cost of bringing him here. 

Bradley Johnson is not a flop, that's what the red category was described as, and that's just completely ridiculous to say he's flopped. He's been okay, not great, but far from a flop. 

He was important and certainly a success, I dont doubt that. (Although I am not sure his presence would have jeopardised our promotion chances too much, we went up 9 points clear with a massively superior goal difference) He shouldnt have been "rewarded" with a new deal as that was short sighted and he is now deadwood but he undoubtedly did what we needed from him. Again, as a short term deal, Antonsson was a good signing, not brilliant but chipped in and played a part.

I said Johnson is between average and flop. In most of his games he has been poor and I thought he was far and away our best summer signing (bar Cunningham who obviously got injured) but aside from 2 or 3 very good performances notably Bristol City away he has IMO been poor more often than not and often a liability with his inability to take the ball off the defence often seeing him regularly dispossed, and also his mobility is questionable. He cant argue with being dropped as he has been.

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32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Mowbray job is under threat from then Owners. Waggott can't sack Mowbray without the Owners authorisation just like it would be under any owner or even yourself if you owned the club

If I or any reasonable person owned the club but wanted to live on the opposite side of the world we would employ experienced people either to run the club or at least advise on major decisions and therefore the CEO would be on the phone on a regular basis and would not be a mate of the manager who got him the job. 

Stop trying to normalise the structure here. It isnt normal and is the biggest reason we won't ever succeed.

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23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He was important and certainly a success, I dont doubt that. (Although I am not sure his presence would have jeopardised our promotion chances too much, we went up 9 points clear with a massively superior goal difference) He shouldnt have been "rewarded" with a new deal as that was short sighted and he is now deadwood but he undoubtedly did what we needed from him. Again, as a short term deal, Antonsson was a good signing, not brilliant but chipped in and played a part.

I said Johnson is between average and flop. In most of his games he has been poor and I thought he was far and away our best summer signing (bar Cunningham who obviously got injured) but aside from 2 or 3 very good performances notably Bristol City away he has IMO been poor more often than not and often a liability with his inability to take the ball off the defence often seeing him regularly dispossed, and also his mobility is questionable. He cant argue with being dropped as he has been.

Compared with Lowe Smallwood looked like Franz Beckenbauer.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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2 hours ago, stinny1 said:

How much of the 12 million has been paid up front anybody know

A lot by now probably.  Think the last accounts showed nearly 6 mill paid which assumed to be towards BB and AA.

Gallagher was quoted as 3 mill with rest in add on's.

Next club accounts will make it a bit clearer.

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Lowe was dreadful. No football brain, or ability whatsoever. How managers from Bowyer to Coyle rated him so highly is bizarre when everyone else could see he was garbage.

Smallwood was in a different league. And did a great job in league one. Personally think he's been harshly treated this season. It's not as though our central midfield has been strong and bossing games consistently. He always got stuck in and his passing was no worse than Johnson's has been. 

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1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

ITK War!

Never told us anything we didn't already know, sorry assume 🤔

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Preston have been linked with Dwight Gayle. The kind of signing that can get you promoted. Top quality. If only we had 12 million to spend and we hadn't spent in on two of those non scoring strikers that you can play out wide. 

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3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

We’re not skint.  So the Group accounts for year end March 2019 tell us that there has been £156million invested/loaned in/to the 'football club' (mainly due to substantial losses) and by now, I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume the number is now £175million+ given an allotment of almost £10million shares in August 2019 and almost certain ongoing substantial losses.  I think there will come a time when Venky's say enough is enough and we could become the next Bolton.  If you don't think the 'football club' is skint then I'm glad you don't look after my money!
 

Tony isn’t getting the sack anytime soon and is much more likely to walk if anything.  I think Mowbray will 'walk' if the settlement is right - he's lost his 'star' man to injury, there is no 'treasure chest' (think those are Mowbray's words) for new players, we have so many injuries, we are 5 matches without a win and have lost three of those and, IMO, we look in a real mess.  Mowbray's family is up in the north east and naturally he misses them as he's said on occasions.  I think we are a sinking ship - if you were in Mowbray's shoes and at his age, what would you do?  It would be no surprise to me to see Mowbray go much sooner rather than later.

Hope this helps because unlike the current noise (in here) this is the truth.  I think the facts speak for themselves.  IMO, the club's financial position is perilous and our manager vulnerable whether he 'walks' or is pushed.

 

Edited by Mercer

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42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He was important and certainly a success, I dont doubt that. (Although I am not sure his presence would have jeopardised our promotion chances too much, we went up 9 points clear with a massively superior goal difference) He shouldnt have been "rewarded" with a new deal as that was short sighted and he is now deadwood but he undoubtedly did what we needed from him. Again, as a short term deal, Antonsson was a good signing, not brilliant but chipped in and played a part.

I said Johnson is between average and flop. In most of his games he has been poor and I thought he was far and away our best summer signing (bar Cunningham who obviously got injured) but aside from 2 or 3 very good performances notably Bristol City away he has IMO been poor more often than not and often a liability with his inability to take the ball off the defence often seeing him regularly dispossed, and also his mobility is questionable. He cant argue with being dropped as he has been.

Another Peter Whittingham pay off ?  A player who might have been getting on but was still rated one of the best assisters in Championship yet another who looked awful here...in lge 1.

Or this seasons Anthony Stokes, known rep for liking the ale, fitness weight issues as a result. Goes home miles away all the time because he can't cut the strings from his mates. Plays up, doesn't give a stuff and quickly decides he's just here for a pay off ?

It might not seem very human to fully paid up members of footballs old boys club but it's about time players had certain critera laid out when they sign. Failure to adhere after the standard warnings should result in the sack with 6 weeks wages in lieu and a firm boot through the door.

Edited by tomphil

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57 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Maybe Mowbray and Waggot could sack each other.

I had to think about that one. It made me quite ill,

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22 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If I or any reasonable person owned the club but wanted to live on the opposite side of the world we would employ experienced people either to run the club or at least advise on major decisions and therefore the CEO would be on the phone on a regular basis and would not be a mate of the manager who got him the job. 

Stop trying to normalise the structure here. It isnt normal and is the biggest reason we won't ever succeed.

You keep saying Mowbray got Waggott the job but Mowbray has said he had nothing to do with him. Can you back up what you claim? 

Waggott does run the club for them but sacking a manager is made at Ownership level? 

10 minutes ago, Bohinen 22 said:

Preston have been linked with Dwight Gayle. The kind of signing that can get you promoted. Top quality. If only we had 12 million to spend and we hadn't spent in on two of those non scoring strikers that you can play out wide. 

IMO, Preston don't have finances to make this happen

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12 minutes ago, Bohinen 22 said:

Preston have been linked with Dwight Gayle. The kind of signing that can get you promoted. Top quality. If only we had 12 million to spend and we hadn't spent in on two of those non scoring strikers that you can play out wide. 

I just couldn't see TM going near a player like him anyway, he might nick it past 2 players go in the box and lose it.  

No money to be made on him either so the investors wouldn't go near him they don't want to buy ready made quality, where's the fun in that.

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13 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Mowbray's family is up in the north east and naturally he misses them as he's said on occasions.  I think we are a sinking ship - if you were in Mowbray's shoes and at his age, what would you do?  It would be no surprise to me to see Mowbray go much sooner rather than later

But you say this but he actually bought an apartment in the Area so he is close to Brockhall training ground. Plus he been here 3 years now. 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

You keep saying Mowbray got Waggott the job but Mowbray has said he had nothing to do with him. Can you back up what you claim? 

Waggott does run the club for them but sacking a manager is made at Ownership level? 

IMO, Preston don't have finances to make this happen

If you still believe that the arrival of Waggott had nothing to do with Mowbray then good for you. I wasn't born yesterday and don't believe in coincidences of that level. Prior to that we had no CEO, so of course it was a step forward of sorts to bring one in. But it is quite clear these owners felt there was no need for one prior to getting to know Mowbray.

What do these owners know about sacking or appointing managers? Why would they make such a decision and not entrust it to their well paid CEO?

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4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But you say this but he actually bought an apartment in the Area so he is close to Brockhall training ground. Plus he been here 3 years now. 

So?

He had to live somewhere when down here.

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It would take some folk longer to get from Blackburn to Manchester Centre to work in a morning, especially if relying on trains and buses, than it does to get from Brockhall to Middlesbrough in a car. 

I don't really see what relevance it has where Mowbray's family are living. He's not exactly old by managerial standards at 56 and surely working in West Brom, Coventry and Glasgow were all more difficult for him. In the scheme of things driving up to Teesside from the Ribble Valley is a lovely and not exactly taxing journey to do 3-4 times a week when on his sort of salary.

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2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

So?

He had to live somewhere when down here.

Pretty sure he was referring to his playing days when he was on about that anyway.

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21 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Another Peter Whittingham pay off ?  A player who might have been getting on but was still rated one of the best assisters in Championship yet another who looked awful here...in lge 1.

Or this seasons Anthony Stokes, known rep for liking the ale, fitness weight issues as a result. Goes home miles away all the time because he can't cut the strings from his mates. Plays up, doesn't give a stuff and quickly decides he's just here for a pay off ?

It might not seem very human to fully paid up members of footballs old boys club but it's about time players had certain critera laid out when they sign. Failure to adhere after the standard warnings should result in the sack with 6 weeks wages in lieu and a firm boot through the door.

I wouldnt be surprised if a mutual decision was made baring in mind his reluctance to commit to the area. With Whittingham I didnt quite get the same vibe, it seemed that he was much quieter and for him it may have simply been age catching up on him. With Johnson not being willing to commit and looking at him seemingly carrying a bit of weight you do queston his professionalism from afar.

I havent lost all hope for Johnson but I really have been disapointed by him so far.

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