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6 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

OK, I’ll have one more go at explaining what I mean via an analogy...bear with...😉

i have a leaking kitchen tap. I conduct due diligence & select a plumber who is suitably qualified & so seems capable of doing the job. He comes in, starts work but accidentally drills through the pipe causing a leak. The plumber is Responsible for the mistake, I am Accountable for choosing the plumber & therefore ultimately, the leak & the damage caused.

if I KEEP using that plumber for all my requirements & accepting risk of further collateral damage then my accountability for the performance of my kitchen tap might suffer & Mrs H might decide that in future, somebody else might be better placed to choose which plumber we use.

Ultimately the buck stops with me (until MRS H intervenes) but it doesn’t give the chosen plumber carte blanche to go nuts knackering my pipe work, he has a duty of care....that’s the difference between responsibility & accountability in this instance... 

*retires to drawing room, pours glass of scotch, slumps back in easy chair* 🙂

 

So that, Herbie, explains why Mowbray HAS to go. He keeps playing those stupid plumbers on the football field and hasn't learned his lesson yet.

God! I wish we had a plumber like Tommy Finney on the field.

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Just now, rossyrover said:

Rovers have needed two experienced central defenders and a goalkeeper for at least two seasons neither of our current centre backs both of whom are converted from other positions are up to the job as for putting a young inexperienced goalkeeper behind them is a stupid decision all we seem to sign is midfield players and young expensive strikers time for Mowbray to go. 

Mowbray wanted Ben Hegenhan when we got relegated to league 1 but Sheff Utd got him. 

I thought Mowbray might move for him in the summer after his good spell at Blackpool from reporters and the 1 game I watched him. 

Over the 2 summers he had more than enough time to sign one or 2 plus an experience keeper. He failed. Experience right back aswell wouldnt got a miss either. 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray wanted Ben Hegenhan when we got relegated to league 1 but Sheff Utd got him. 

I thought Mowbray might move for him in the summer after his good spell at Blackpool from reporters and the 1 game I watched him. 

Over the 2 summers he had more than enough time to sign one or 2 plus an experience keeper. He failed. Experience right back aswell wouldnt got a miss either. 

If some complete numpty in India is still listening to his resident experts, who explains, it’s the goal scorers who command big transfer fees, then no amount of scouting for defenders, or keepers will result in us Shelling decent money out for one. There is a reason why despite everyone with a hole in their botty, can see what we have needed for over two seasons, yet we still fail to land the said players.

Some people posting on other medium, suggest the owners were badly advised and have learned from their mistakes. I personally can’t see that at all. 

Edited by lraC

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Just now, bazza said:

So that, Herbie, explains why Mowbray HAS to go. He keeps playing those stupid plumbers on the football field and hasn't learned his lesson yet.

God! I wish we had a plumber like Tommy Finney on the field.

Can't fix the leaky defence.

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray wanted Ben Hegenhan when we got relegated to league 1 but Sheff Utd got him. 

I thought Mowbray might move for him in the summer after his good spell at Blackpool from reporters and the 1 game I watched him. 

Over the 2 summers he had more than enough time to sign one or 2 plus an experience keeper. He failed. Experience right back aswell wouldnt got a miss either. 

At the end of the day chaddy, none of us know what other factors are involved in what goes on at the club: it ain't bloody normal that's for sure.

Things aren't going to change as you'd expect at a 'normal' club and despite everything, else that's why gates will continue to decline until such times as they do change.

Waggott and Cheston versus Bancroft and Fox? (Rhetorical btw!)

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Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Arnold and Gennoe with no money. Nuff said.

Jim Arnold's grandson I think is on the books of Northampton Town. If he is any where near as good as Jim he will be an improvement on the present encumbent.

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Just now, darrenrover said:

At the end of the day chaddy, none of us know what other factors are involved in what goes on at the club: it ain't bloody normal that's for sure.

Things aren't going to change as you'd expect at a 'normal' club and despite everything, else that's why gates will continue to decline until such times as they do change.

Waggott and Cheston versus Bancroft and Fox? (Rhetorical btw!)

I was still in my young years(less than 5 years old) when Walker bought the club. So I don't know the Bancroft and Fox era too much. 

I don't see the owners telling Mowbray he cant sign defenders for x or y or z reasons. Mowbray has the final decision. I don't know why he didn't sign the defenders we needed. Too loyal to current players. 

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He'd decided to earmark the majority of his budget on the pursuit of Downing and Gallagher imo meaning there wasn't much room left to do other than loans in defence.

Another series of old pals acts.along with Derrick telling his manager he was now a centre half !

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I was still in my young years(less than 5 years old) when Walker bought the club. So I don't know the Bancroft and Fox era too much. 

I don't see the owners telling Mowbray he cant sign defenders for x or y or z reasons. Mowbray has the final decision. I don't know why he didn't sign the defenders we needed. Too loyal to current players. 

When you see a decision not very long ago to appoint a chancer like Coyle, when the so called decision maker at the club, had already all but appointed someone else, then you have to believe that they  can  tell whoever they want, whatever they want. I would also like to think it wasn’t the case, but why else would you ship as many as we did last season and still fail to address it?

Edited by lraC

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I was still in my young years(less than 5 years old) when Walker bought the club. So I don't know the Bancroft and Fox era too much. 

I don't see the owners telling Mowbray he cant sign defenders for x or y or z reasons. Mowbray has the final decision. I don't know why he didn't sign the defenders we needed. Too loyal to current players. 

Bancroft and Fox was before the Walker era.

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Just now, lraC said:

When you see a decision not very long ago to appoint a chancer like Coyle, when the so called decision maker at the club, had already all but appointed someone else, then you have to believe that they  can  tell whoever they want, whatever they want. I would also like to think it wasn’t the case, but why else would you ship as many as we did last season and still fail to address it?

Cheston should have never gone on holiday until Warnock was appoint. Someone suggest Coyle to the owners and Suhail, who was at the club at that time that could have suggestion his name to those people?

The owners clearly trust Mowbray and that's why he got a new contract. 

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Bancroft and Fox was before the Walker era.

That's was my point. 

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If the owners clearly trust Mowbray, then that could also prove to be fatal. One thing for sure, I don’t trust the owners!!

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In all seriousness, we're going to finish 15th, and the worst part about that is that over half of our fanbase will say "that's about right" for the squad we have. It isn't. This team on paper under any decent manager, like Alex Neil, would be in the Top 6. Sick of people on social media saying that wanting your manager to be replaced means you aren't supporting your team. Apparently its "negative" if you want a change in manager. Urgh... some people really are content with mid table mediocrity every year until enough decent players leave so the club can excuse another relegation.

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Just now, JoeH said:

In all seriousness, we're going to finish 15th, and the worst part about that is that over half of our fanbase will say "that's about right" for the squad we have. It isn't. This team on paper under any decent manager, like Alex Neil, would be in the Top 6. Sick of people on social media saying that wanting your manager to be replaced means you aren't supporting your team. Apparently its "negative" if you want a change in manager. Urgh... some people really are content with mid table mediocrity every year until enough decent players leave so the club can excuse another relegation.

for me, each fan is allowed they own opinion. We might not agree all of the time. Even I want to change manager as I don't see the team progressing and I see the same mistakes as last season. I am a big fan of Mowbray and stuck up for him loads on this forum time after time, 

I am the type of person who gave the manager time but I feel that Mowbray hasn't addressed the areas in the summer he should have done with the experience players we needed. 

 

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What I couldn’t understand was if TM wanted to bring on Danny Graham why take off a midfielder, when at the time two forwards, Dack and Armstrong were contributing nothing 

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51 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

12 minutes ago, JoeH said:

In all seriousness, we're going to finish 15th, and the worst part about that is that over half of our fanbase will say "that's about right" for the squad we have. It isn't. This team on paper under any decent manager, like Alex Neil, would be in the Top 6. Sick of people on social media saying that wanting your manager to be replaced means you aren't supporting your team. Apparently its "negative" if you want a change in manager. Urgh... some people really are content with mid table mediocrity every year until enough decent players leave so the club can excuse another relegation.

We're going to finish 15th? You're having a laugh, which I find hard to believe seeing as you've watched the same team as me for the past 12 months.

Joe, mark my words, this squad isn't good enough: for countless reasons, unless we change managers almost immediately and make a few decent defensive recruitments in January, we'll be visiting Accy amongst others next season. Don't kid yourself differently, it's not just the manager.

Edited by darrenrover

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Just now, rigger said:

What I couldn’t understand was if TM wanted to bring on Danny Graham why take off a midfielder, when at the time two forwards, Dack and Armstrong were contributing nothing 

Dack played deeper yesterday and Armstrong wide. 

 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Dack played deeper yesterday and Armstrong wide. 

 

But that doesn’t change the fact that at the time they where not contributing, probably because of fatigue due to their first half efforts

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1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

 

Waggott and Cheston versus Bancroft and Fox? (Rhetorical btw!)

It’s a no brainer! They got the odd one wrong, aka Jim Iley, but they knew how to find gems for the level we were at back then. Derek Keighley didn’t do too badly either with Howard Kendall

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2 minutes ago, renrag said:

It’s a no brainer! They got the odd one wrong, aka Jim Iley, but they knew how to find gems for the level we were at back then. Derek Keighley didn’t do too badly either with Howard Kendall

Keighley was outstanding.  Bancroft wasn't bad.  Fox had it relative;y easy with Uncle Jack's support.

All three were head and shoulders above Cheston and Waggot - think it's like PL v Blackburn Combination. 

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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

In all seriousness, we're going to finish 15th, and the worst part about that is that over half of our fanbase will say "that's about right" for the squad we have. It isn't. This team on paper under any decent manager, like Alex Neil, would be in the Top 6. Sick of people on social media saying that wanting your manager to be replaced means you aren't supporting your team. Apparently its "negative" if you want a change in manager. Urgh... some people really are content with mid table mediocrity every year until enough decent players leave so the club can excuse another relegation.

I still fail to see on what basis this team can be judged as a top 6 one. You are massively overstating the quality of the players. Of course the foibles of the squad are down the manager but as much as a new manager is needed, I see the current squad and dont see solutions in more than one area in terms of having a top 6 challenging quality team.

Walton is horrendous, its generous to suggest he is bottom 6 quality. There is certainly no chance that the defence is anywhere near that quality, Cunningham excepted although hes a write off with injury. Lenihan is the best of the rest but injury prone and makes far too many errors and the rest again are nowhere near good enough, Bell, Williams, Nyambe and Adarabioyo, as well as jack of all trades master of none Bennett. You cant get top 6 with a defence and keeper like that.

Midfield and up front, theres an imbalance there. Travis a good player, top 6? Not yet no. Dack I think youd have to say yeah, he is pushing top 6 quality with his numbers. Holtby might have that quality too, but obviously hes only started once and he wants to play where Dack is. Rothwell an enigma, should play more but (partially as a result of management) hes not proven yet as that quality week in week out at this level. Johnson, Downing and Graham all at one point perhaps but to varying degrees are subdued by age. And down at the younger side, at huge cost, Armstrong, Gallagher, Samuel, Brereton etc all certainly cant be considered top 6 players.

I also think Alex Neil is a little more than decent, at this level hes up near the top.

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Just now, roversfan99 said:

I still fail to see on what basis this team can be judged as a top 6 one. You are massively overstating the quality of the players. Of course the foibles of the squad are down the manager but as much as a new manager is needed, I see the current squad and dont see solutions in more than one area in terms of having a top 6 challenging quality team.

Walton is horrendous, its generous to suggest he is bottom 6 quality. There is certainly no chance that the defence is anywhere near that quality, Cunningham excepted although hes a write off with injury. Lenihan is the best of the rest but injury prone and makes far too many errors and the rest again are nowhere near good enough, Bell, Williams, Nyambe and Adarabioyo, as well as jack of all trades master of none Bennett. You cant get top 6 with a defence and keeper like that.

Midfield and up front, theres an imbalance there. Travis a good player, top 6? Not yet no. Dack I think youd have to say yeah, he is pushing top 6 quality with his numbers. Holtby might have that quality too, but obviously hes only started once and he wants to play where Dack is. Rothwell an enigma, should play more but (partially as a result of management) hes not proven yet as that quality week in week out at this level. Johnson, Downing and Graham all at one point perhaps but to varying degrees are subdued by age. And down at the younger side, at huge cost, Armstrong, Gallagher, Samuel, Brereton etc all certainly cant be considered top 6 players.

I also think Alex Neil is a little more than decent, at this level hes up near the top.

He would be standing on Mowbrays shoulders.

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44 minutes ago, renrag said:

It’s a no brainer! They got the odd one wrong, aka Jim Iley, but they knew how to find gems for the level we were at back then. Derek Keighley didn’t do too badly either with Howard Kendall

Apparently Jimmy Armfield was the king maker in those days

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11 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Of course he is, but at 4pm yesterday as that cross came over...Mowbray is powerless. He can only react post event.

No. He can act pre-event by ensuring we have a competent keeper on the pitch. I'm not sure what's eluding you here.

Let's play the analogy game. I go to my doctor and tell him I have a problem. He gives me some half-assed diagnosis and inferior medication with a small but unsatisfactory chance of fixing my problem. My condition worsens.

It is still the doctor's fault. I wouldn't say ah well, he can only act after the fact and subscribe me the correct medication when the next shipment of that is available in January. I'd say Jesus you're a shit doctor, I want a new one ASAP.

Edit - and yes, fine, at 4pm yesterday he can't do anything but that in no way diminishes his responsibility.

Edited by bluebruce

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