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JoeH

Leeds (A) - Same as last year lads... kind of.

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40 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

How are we getting such bad luck with injuries? Cunningham granted but even then losing one key player is probably par for the course. Outside of that there's not really been any major injuries and certainly not to our key players. Perhaps Lenihen but 3 seasons of long term injuries may suggest it's not a surprise. 

And when have we been unlucky? Take yesterday for example. They had 4 times the number of shots we did, and double the possession. Overly simplistic admittedly but that suggests we were well beaten. And that isn't a first. How are we unlucky when we have so few shots each game? 

Not at you Gaviar just pointing out how daft these views are...

Daft in the extreme pal but they’re there on Twitter and Facebook - trust me. These fans will be the first to say a change was right when it inevitably does come - albeit far too late. 

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

You make many good points in your post. 

if me and you were to pick our team for the Barnsley game I would imagine we would pick about 7 or 8 players the same. Possible a different formation aswell. 

IMO, Mowbray wants to play either 4-2-3-1 or 3-4-2-1 formation wise. I feel that sometimes he is looking to over complicant things at times instead of keeping it simple and stick with it for few games. 

One of my biggest criticism of him is failing to sign a leader at the back, experience right back and keeper. We didn't know loads of signings but mostly defensively signings we need, 

I have posted a number of different managers suggestions in a past few weeks. what do you think of those suggestions

It is possible we may pick the same 7 or 8 players but in an ideal world we should be picking the same 11. When we won the Prem and won promotion  back to the Prem the team was the same 11 every week barring injuries.  Other teams also knew how we were going to play but we stuck to our basic game plan and most weeks it paid off. You and I could name both those teams now. I follow teams quite closely, even the Dingles, but it's coming to something when I can tell you what 11 they'll play next game but I haven't a clue what our team will be.

Regarding prospective managerial appointments I despair. Whoever you or I come up with I can almost guarantee that they won't be appointed.  How many of Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lampard, Coyle, Mowbray were on your radar ? None of them were on mine. I was delighted when Lampard, Irvine and the other guy who's name I forget were appointed. I thought for once they'd made a sensible decision, what a good experienced team they appeared to be.  However for whatever reason they managed to balls that up. I do wonder what that managerial team would have done with the £12 million plus that Mowbray has squandered ?

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It is possible we may pick the same 7 or 8 players but in an ideal world we should be picking the same 11. When we won the Prem and won promotion  back to the Prem the team was the same 11 every week barring injuries.  Other teams also knew how we were going to play but we stuck to our basic game plan and most weeks it paid off. You and I could name both those teams now.

Regarding prospective managerial appointments I despair. Whoever you or I come up with I can almost guarantee that they won't be appointed.  How many of Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle, Mowbray were on your radar ? None of them were on mine. I was delighted when Lambert, Irvine and the other guy who's name I forget were appointed. I thought for once they'd made a sensible decision, what a good experienced team they appeared to be.  However for whatever reason they managed to balls that up. I do wonder if that managerial team would have done with the £12 million plus that Mowbray has squandered ?

Lambert was my choice to replace Bowyer. Irvine and Rob Kelly were good coaches 

Rob Kelly is now coaching in Sweden at Malmo with Uwe Rosler who I would imagine would applied for the job here if it was available. 

Bowyer was my choice at the end of that season for the job. 

Coyle deffo not. after he was sacked I didn't have a clue who we would employ next

Wanted Holloway as manager when Berg was appointed and I believe Holloway would have got us up that season. I will never understand why Shebby and Shaw didn't appoint him or why Shebby walked out on that meeting. 

Shebby was going to appoint Billy McKinlay at one point on Gerry Armstrong's recommendation 

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Lambert was my choice to replace Bowyer. Irvine and Rob Kelly were good coaches 

Rob Kelly is now coaching in Sweden at Malmo with Uwe Rosler who I would imagine would applied for the job here if it was available. 

Bowyer was my choice at the end of that season for the job. 

Coyle deffo not. after he was sacked I didn't have a clue who we would employ next

Wanted Holloway as manager when Berg was appointed and I believe Holloway would have got us up that season. I will never understand why Shebby and Shaw didn't appoint him or why Shebby walked out on that meeting. 

Shebby was going to appoint Billy McKinlay at one point on Gerry Armstrong's recommendation 

Yes Rob Kelly was the guy I was thinking off. Three very experienced men. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Lambert and co appointment come out of the blue ?

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes Rob Kelly was the guy I was thinking off. Three very experienced men. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Lambert and co appointment come out of the blue ?

It was rumoured for a few weeks before hand that Rovers was looking to sack Bowyer and if I remember correctly the 4 man shortlist was Paul Lambert, Nigel Pearson, Ian Holloway and Jokanovic..

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/blackburn-want-former-watford-boss-6807462

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27 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It is possible we may pick the same 7 or 8 players but in an ideal world we should be picking the same 11. When we won the Prem and won promotion  back to the Prem the team was the same 11 every week barring injuries.  Other teams also knew how we were going to play but we stuck to our basic game plan and most weeks it paid off. You and I could name both those teams now. I follow teams quite closely, even the Dingles, but it's coming to something when I can tell you what 11 they'll play next game but I haven't a clue what our team will be.

Regarding prospective managerial appointments I despair. Whoever you or I come up with I can almost guarantee that they won't be appointed.  How many of Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Lampard, Coyle, Mowbray were on your radar ? None of them were on mine. I was delighted when Lampard, Irvine and the other guy who's name I forget were appointed. I thought for once they'd made a sensible decision, what a good experienced team they appeared to be.  However for whatever reason they managed to balls that up. I do wonder what that managerial team would have done with the £12 million plus that Mowbray has squandered ?

Flowers

Berg

Hendry

Pearce/Gale

Le Saux

Ripley

Sherwood

Wilcox

Shearer

Sutton

Edited by MCMC1875

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Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Flowers

Berg

Hendry

Pearce/freebie from West Ham

Le Saux

Ripley

Sherwood

Wilcox

Shearer

Sutton

Did we only play with 10? 

Frebbie from West Ham was Tony Gale. 

We signed Jeff Kenna that season

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29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It was rumoured for a few weeks before hand that Rovers was looking to sack Bowyer and if I remember correctly the 4 man shortlist was Paul Lambert, Nigel Pearson, Ian Holloway and Jokanovic..

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/blackburn-want-former-watford-boss-6807462

Ok. To be honest I was staying off the board at the time because the whole Coyle situation was seriously doing my head in !

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Ok. To be honest I was staying off the board at the time because the whole Coyle situation was seriously doing my head in

that was well before the Coyle situation. 

I will say that I wish we moved for Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill. Got Stoke back to basics yesterday and play McClean and Ince in the correct positions and bought Ryan Woods back into the team

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

that was well before the Coyle situation. 

I will say that I wish we moved for Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill. Got Stoke back to basics yesterday and play McClean and Ince in the correct positions and bought Ryan Woods back into the team

When Coyle was obviously relegating the team I decided to stay away from to much Rovers related stuff before my head exploded. When Coyle was sacked and Lambert and Co appointed I was back like a shot. Only for that to go tits up rapidly !

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When Coyle was obviously relegating the team I decided to stay away from to much Rovers related stuff before my head exploded. When Coyle was sacked and Lambert and Co appointed I was back like a shot. Only for that to go tits up rapidly !

Lambert was appointed after Bowyer. Then quickly went from Lambert to Coyle.

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4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

When a new manager arrives, as Mowbray did,  you have to work with what you've got player wise. I can understand that. You then evaluate who plays best in which position and sort out a formation that suits their particular skills. It may not be how you want to play but it is what it is for the time being. You have to go with what you've got.  Once you've got yourself established and the transfer windows come along you can start building teams to play in whatever style of play you favour. When Dyche came in at the Dingle Dome he said 4-4-2 is my way and they've played that way 99% of the time ever since. No chopping and changing. By and large all his signings have been players who can fit into that system.

My criticism of Mowbray is he has never created a team with a consistent style or coherent shape or a recognisable pattern of play in over 2 seasons.  Almost from the day we got relegated we've never really known our best 11. You could almost pick 2 entirely different teams from what we have now and one team would be no better than the other team, that's just ridiculous in our position. It's laughable to me that before a game 20 knowledgeable fans on here who go regularly can pick what they think will be the team for the next week and they'll be 20 different teams !  He's chopped and changed relentlessly without ever stumbling across a consistent side.  In my book all he's done is collect players without much regard to how they'll fit into a team shape. Look at all the midfielders he's signed ! It makes me wonder who is really behind the signing of some of them.

I felt the same way even when we were on the way to promotion. I just didn't think he really knew what he was doing. Most of the time we were less than convincing for more than half a game and it was only a flash or two of individual skill that got us through.

I think the bottom line is the players must be thinking that way too and they're just as sick of hearing his voice as we are. Time for a change, let's hope the dice rolls in our favour for once. It happens in football all the time, you outstay your welcome.

 

Great post but just adds to the feeling of frustration.

How many managers would bring on a defensive midfielder to contain a match when losing 2-1, while leaving a player who can unlock a defence on the bench?

We are on a steady decline, a managed stagnation, but as long as he can bring enough fans along with him on his journey to mediocrity he will survive. When a manager wasn’t potted for not being up to the task, it used to be ‘Sack The Board’ now the equivalent is ‘Venkys Out’. As long as there is none of that then all will be made out to be fine during the Pune junkets.

031C5DD0-D482-43F9-81B3-B7C672110564.thumb.jpeg.9994131f3f926cb03c5707118c27c9c3.jpeg

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38 minutes ago, booth said:

Lambert was appointed after Bowyer. Then quickly went from Lambert to Coyle.

You're right, I'm obviously blanking out a lot of bad memories !

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3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It seems a totally baseless statement to make. Which of our players are top 6 quality? Only Dack IMO. We finished 15th last season and have regressed since. The manager takes much of the blame I agree, and I also think that the quality of the games in this league is poor, but ultimately Mowbray has not built a particularly good squad for the money hes had. Poor goalkeeper, incompetent defence, no width, no goals, no leaders, its a bottom half squad hes built I think, maybe a good manager could have us in mid table.

It's easy to look at Preston's side and ask, which of their players are Top 4 quality? Pearson and Browne maybe? It's not about just individuals. I firmly believe that this team shouldn't be two places lower than the team Gary Bowyer left behind. We've finished in more positive positions with Danny Guthrie, Hope Akpan and Jason Lowe making up our midfield, and we now have Lewis Travis, Lewis Holtby, Stuart Downing, Bradley Dack and more... we shouldn't be where we are - and a decent manager would have us in promotion play off contention (in my opinion).

Edited by JoeH

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Just to carry on my point earlier, How would this game pan out ?

Blues.

Leutwiler

Rankin Costello, Lenihan, Wharton, Willams.

Johnson, Travis.

Buckley, Dack, Downing.

Gallager

Versus

Reds

Walton

Bennett, Nyambe, Tosin, Bell.

Smallwood, Evans.

Holtby, Davenport, Rothwell

Graham.

Which team is better ? As I see it you can mix and match all that lot and still not have a great team. I couldn't find a place for -

Chapman, Butterworth, Brereton, Hart, Mulgrew.

That I suggest is a ridiculous amount of players for us to have and still be mediocre.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Just to carry on my point earlier, How would this game pan out ?

Blues.

Leutwiler

Rankin Costello, Lenihan, Wharton, Willams.

Johnson, Travis.

Buckley, Dack, Downing.

Gallager

Versus

Reds

Walton

Bennett, Nyambe, Tosin, Bell.

Smallwood, Evans.

Holtby, Davenport, Rothwell

Graham.

Which team is better ? As I see it you can mix and match all that lot and still not have a great team. I couldn't find a place for -

Chapman, Butterworth, Brereton, Hart, Mulgrew.

That I suggest is a ridiculous amount of players for us to have and still be mediocre.

Mediocre..are you joking?

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Just now, JoeH said:

It's easy to look at Preston's side and ask, which of their players are Top 4 quality? Pearson and Browne maybe? It's not about just individuals. I firmly believe that this team shouldn't be two places lower than the team Gary Bowyer left behind. We've finished in more positive positions with Danny Guthrie, Hope Akpan and Jason Lowe making up our midfield, and we now have Lewis Travis, Lewis Holtby, Stuart Downing, Bradley Dack and more... we shouldn't be where we are - and a decent manager would have us in promotion play off contention (in my opinion).

I am not sure about , if he took over now ...

If a decent manager had had the last transfer window , I would agree  with a top ten finish... 

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Just to carry on my point earlier, How would this game pan out ?

Blues.

Leutwiler

Rankin Costello, Lenihan, Wharton, Willams.

Johnson, Travis.

Buckley, Dack, Downing.

Gallager

Versus

Reds

Walton

Bennett, Nyambe, Tosin, Bell.

Smallwood, Evans.

Holtby, Davenport, Rothwell

Graham.

Which team is better ? As I see it you can mix and match all that lot and still not have a great team. I couldn't find a place for -

Chapman, Butterworth, Brereton, Hart, Mulgrew.

That I suggest is a ridiculous amount of players for us to have and still be mediocre.

Butterworth should be playing ahead of Davenport. Not sure what people have against the lad.

I agree with your overall point though. We don’t have real depth in our first team. Both defences are poor.

However, the best XI out of that lot, with proper organisation, game plan and motivation would be worth watching.

You've also dropped Cunningham (presumably because he is a loan and injured) but kept Lenihan. He would feature in our best side.

(Reds would win in my view).

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Just now, JoeH said:

It's easy to look at Preston's side and ask, which of their players are Top 4 quality? Pearson and Browne maybe? It's not about just individuals. I firmly believe that this team shouldn't be two places lower than the team Gary Bowyer left behind. We've finished in more positive positions with Danny Guthrie, Hope Akpan and Jason Lowe making up our midfield, and we now have Lewis Travis, Lewis Holtby, Stuart Downing, Bradley Dack and more... we shouldn't be where we are - and a decent manager would have us in promotion play off contention (in my opinion).

Preston have Daniel Johnson, the 2 centre backs too, Davies and Bauer. I dont doubt that Neil is perhaps overachieving, but theyve got a better and more balanced squad. 

Part of the problem is the lack of balance in our squad. Goalkeeper, we havent good any good ones. Centre back, question marks over all 3 of them. Right back, Nyambe is our best bet, still very raw. Left back, very unfortunate with Cunninghams injury, Bell and Williams both repeatedly prove their incompetence. Central midfield, Travis is our best one, top 6 quality? Not for me, certainly not yet, quite a bit off Pearson and Gallagher for example. Johnson seems past it. Wide, weve got Downing who is usually fairly ineffective, Armstrong is rubbish, Rothwell probably our best bet there but has never himself proven himself to be capable of regularly scoring/assisting, plus possibly more natural in a central role, contrast them with Barkhuizen, much more natural there, always puts in a shift, always chipping in with goals. Number 10, Dack yes I will give you, Holtby has the CV to suggest he is up to it, been mixed so far (excellent v Huddersfield, OK v Sheff Weds, awful yesterday) but to get him in the team in his natural position youd have to drop our best player. Up top, only one competent striker and hes 34 and out of favour, seemingly written off.

I agree that we could be a bit higher up the table but we are nowhere near good enough to be in that top 6. 

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7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Preston have Daniel Johnson, the 2 centre backs too, Davies and Bauer. I dont doubt that Neil is perhaps overachieving, but theyve got a better and more balanced squad. 

Part of the problem is the lack of balance in our squad. Goalkeeper, we havent good any good ones. Centre back, question marks over all 3 of them. Right back, Nyambe is our best bet, still very raw. Left back, very unfortunate with Cunninghams injury, Bell and Williams both repeatedly prove their incompetence. Central midfield, Travis is our best one, top 6 quality? Not for me, certainly not yet, quite a bit off Pearson and Gallagher for example. Johnson seems past it. Wide, weve got Downing who is usually fairly ineffective, Armstrong is rubbish, Rothwell probably our best bet there but has never himself proven himself to be capable of regularly scoring/assisting, plus possibly more natural in a central role, contrast them with Barkhuizen, much more natural there, always puts in a shift, always chipping in with goals. Number 10, Dack yes I will give you, Holtby has the CV to suggest he is up to it, been mixed so far (excellent v Huddersfield, OK v Sheff Weds, awful yesterday) but to get him in the team in his natural position youd have to drop our best player. Up top, only one competent striker and hes 34 and out of favour, seemingly written off.

I agree that we could be a bit higher up the table but we are nowhere near good enough to be in that top 6. 

Preston’s defence on paper isn’t Top 4. It’s not all about your players, it’s about your playing style, ethos, tactical decisions too - but we don’t have any kind of adeptness in those areas.

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Blue team:

                     Walton

JRC.    Lenihan.    Tosin.      Bell

Chapman  Travis.  Davenport  Downing

                        Dack       
 
                      Gallagher

White team:

                     Leutwiler 

Bennett  Nyambe  Williams  Cunningham 

                  Evans    Johnson

Armstrong.        Holtby        Rothwell

                       Graham 

subs: Hart, Butterworth, Buckley, Brereton, Smallwood, Samuel.

Other than the keeper you could pick either side and not really get much difference. Right back is an issue for both sides. 

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Just to carry on my point earlier, How would this game pan out ?

Blues.

Leutwiler

Rankin Costello, Lenihan, Wharton, Willams.

Johnson, Travis.

Buckley, Dack, Downing.

Gallager

Versus

Reds

Walton

Bennett, Nyambe, Tosin, Bell.

Smallwood, Evans.

Holtby, Davenport, Rothwell

Graham.

Which team is better ? As I see it you can mix and match all that lot and still not have a great team. I couldn't find a place for -

Chapman, Butterworth, Brereton, Hart, Mulgrew.

That I suggest is a ridiculous amount of players for us to have and still be mediocre.

Thing is a good manager would turn that medicore into good, something better than the sum of its parts. 

I dunno maybe Mulgrew and Travis as the 2 defensive miss in a 4-2-3-1 to protect Mulgrew from his lack of pace and still give us his set piece benefits. Perhaps a trio of Rothwell, Dack and Holtby means we can have a non scoring lump up front to play off as the 3 behind rack up a set of goals. Perhaps a good manager brings in a canny centre half and all our young defenders fulfil their potential. Maybe he gets a wing back system making Bell and Bennett look halfway decent. 

Tbh I'm not sure what it looks like but a competent manager would find a way of getting the team better than the sum of its parts. 

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Reckon Lenihan and Baeur could have made a decent CD partnership, pity TM didn't.

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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Preston’s defence on paper isn’t Top 4. It’s not all about your players, it’s about your playing style, ethos, tactical decisions too - but we don’t have any kind of adeptness in those areas.

Of course, we are in agreement that obviously a manager makes a huge difference and we need a new one but you can only do so much and our squad is lacking in so many areas. Never mind a defence not being top 4, ours isnt top half, its one of the worst in the league!

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I did not see the game live but have watched the iFollow extended highlights a few times.

I can see why the penalty was given, a clumsy half-hearted effort by Tosin.

The 2nd Leeds goal - Leeds keeper passes out to Phillips with hardly a Rovers player in sight who is allowed to proceed downfield under no challenge at all, Rovers players are 20/30 yards away, Phillips working out his options with all the time in the world. He then plays a long high pass to Bamford, instant control, pass to Harrison and game over.

The lack of application and effort by Rovers during that play was a disgrace but the lack of any press must be due to coaching and manager's instructions.

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