opinion Our Current Squad

[roversfan99]

Putting the managerial situation to one side for a second, as this could easily be applied to a new manager. How good is our current squad and what is our best side?

I think our fans massively overestimate how good it is, in my opinion it is no better than a mid table squad full of flaws and weaknesses. Even in areas where we are stronger, ie in midfield, we may have some talented players but they are either all wanting to play similar roles, or their best position is somewhat a mystery. To clarify, this isnt me defending Mowbray, because I still do think he is underachieving in a underwhelming league in terms of quality if not competitiveness, the blame goes to Mowbray in terms of building this squad in the first place.

In goal, we dont have a competent Championship goalkeeper so thats not a good start. I think with the impressive Cunningham written off, our obvious back 4 is Nyambe, Lenihan, Adarabioyo and Williams. Which isnt great, full backs (Nyambe has scope for further improvement) are both very low end Championship full backs, and there is promise in the middle 2 but still to prove they are capable of keeping the goals out. Problem is that all of them has fitness question marks to varying degrees too, so that even if the manager didnt have blind spots to the pair, as I very much doubt that Bell or Bennett would get in any other teams in the league, they would still feature fairly regularly regardless of who the manager is because of a lack of depth.

Midfield is a curious one. In players like Downing and Holtby, you have potentially capable players but ones whose exact position is an unknown. With Downing slowing down perhaps his best position is in central midfield, but I am unconvinced that he can have full control of a match from that role. Holtby I feel is somewhat restricted from a deep role and hasnt impressed me there. Hes a natural number 10, but cant play there as our best player plays there, so for me the best best is to shoehorn him wide right, far from ideal but ultimately we dont have any competent right wingers. Rothwell is a definite for the left wing but again, is he more of a number 10? And has he been given a chance to prove that he can consistently provide goals and assists? And I think Travis for all his energy is a little overrated because we dont have anyone else like him, he has to play I think. I think we have the best choice/depth in midfield but are miles away from having a balanced midfield and I think we will be searching for the correct mix throughout the season.

Up front, pretty simple, and it is the same in regards to playing any of them wide. Gallagher, Armstrong, Brereton and Samuel arent up to it. Graham starts every game he physically can, end of.

We need a new manager, but it will take another few windows run competently this time to get this squad near the play offs.

 

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Putting the managerial situation to one side for a second, as this could easily be applied to a new manager. How good is our current squad and what is our best side?

Well if Mowbray had made the signings we need in terms of Experience keeper, right back and Centre back leader then we could be top 6 now. 

Our best team with the current squad

Walton: Bennett, Lenihan Tosin Williams; Travis Downing or Evans; Armstrong Dack Rothwell; Graham

But we need the types above to challenge for top 6 and if these were made than we could be there

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We need a new manager, but it will take another few windows run competently this time to get this squad near the play offs.

if a new manager came in this week and in January make 3 signings we could challenging for the top 6 this season

[Sparks Rover]

If, out of 10 outfield players 3 of them are Bennett, Del and Evans surely that’s not our best team....

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Well if Mowbray had made the signings we need in terms of Experience keeper, right back and Centre back leader then we could be top 6 now. 

Our best team with the current squad

Walton: Bennett, Lenihan Tosin Williams; Travis Downing or Evans; Armstrong Dack Rothwell; Graham

But we need the types above to challenge for top 6 and if these were made than we could be there

if a new manager came in this week and in January make 3 signings we could challenging for the top 6 this season

Absolutely no chance, especially on the back of a fairly hefty deficit already.

I think you overestimate the quality of them players. I thought you wanted Brereton to play? Armstrong has repeatedly been shite, why is he in your team? Bennett and Walton youve made a note that you want replacements in January which is fair enough, but we are handicapped with them in the team until then. You think Williams can play a part as a top 6 quality left back. You think that the midfield partnership is top 6 quality?

[DE.]

I think our squad is pretty poor overall with a few exceptions.

Walton/Leutwiler - both poor keepers who cost more points than they save. 

Bennett - works hard but seems to have gotten worse over time. A weak link when played at RB.
Nyambe - can be decent but many flaws to his game. Doesn't create assists, doesn't score and is defensively suspect. Athletic and definite scope for him to improve but it isn't going to happen under Mowbray.
Lenihan - injury prone so will miss a good 10-15 games every season at least. A mid-table Championship defender, prone to rash mistakes but one of few players we have willing to put their head onto a ball.
Tosin - far from the finished product, good with the ball at his feet but again has dodgy moments defensively. Also not our player and little chance of us signing him long-term.
Williams - has purple patches of good form at CB, has a knack for scoring goals from that position. A poor LB though.
Bell - League 1 calibre left back. Nowhere near good enough for this division. Works hard but lacking quality at both ends of the pitch.
Cunningham - best of the bunch by far but out for the season and as with Tosin doesn't belong to us. 

Johnson - started off well but form has dipped dramatically and now appears to be out of favour entirely. Will only decline as he continues to age.
Downing - still a good player but at the tail-end of his career, no long-term future. 
Evans - only seems to play well for his country. Never been anything more than functional at Rovers and often a passenger in games. Wish we'd let him go rather than give him a new contract.
Smallwood - lower Championship/League 1 standard midfielder who has been almost completely frozen out. Another who shouldn't have been given a new contract.
Rothwell - a good player but unfortunately the manager seems to have it in for him. 
Davenport/Chapman - stuck in u23 limbo with no signs of that changing.
Holtby - obviously a very talented player, perhaps the most naturally gifted at the club, but seems to have fitness issues and struggles to play in Mowbray's "style" of football. 
Travis - solid midfielder who again appears to be one of the manager's punching bags. Looks very different now from the lad who broke into the team nearly a year ago. Seems to be having the flair coached out of him so that he can become an Evans/Smallwood clone.
Buckley - not seen enough of him to comment but there seems to be some potential there.
Dack - our most effective player by a mile. The only player who regularly plays and scores/assists. The lynchpin of the team and would be massively missed if injured or sold. 

Armstrong - pacy but lacks intelligence. Not smart enough to play up front and not consistently effective enough to play on the wing. 
Gallagher - looks like a huge waste of money so far. Granted he keeps getting shunted out on the wing so difficult for him to get into any kind of consistent rhythm up top. 
Brereton - a lot of money down the drain. Disaster of a signing.
Samuel - injury prone and not good enough for this division.
Graham - our best striker by a mile but being purposely phased out by the manager and at 35 years old is not a long-term solution to any of our problems. Probably gone next summer, maybe even in January. 

So of the players that actually belong to us, I'd say only Rothwell, Holtby, Dack and Travis are genuine top six calibre players (although in Rothwell and Travis' case it's more potentially top six player rather than what we see regularly at the moment). The rest are mid-to-lower table cloggers who, imo, will never get us anywhere close to the playoffs. We need practically an entirely new defence (GK included), a new set of strikers, and proper wide players who aren't strikers being shoehorned into that position by a manager who has completely lost his way.

I kind of wish I hadn't gone through our squad as now I feel depressed. We really are so far away right now in terms of manager and squad, and I don't see the overhaul required coming with our current owners at the helm. There are some bright sparks at u23 level (Rankin-Costello, Buckley, Grayson, Butterworth) but we are still going to need a lot more to realistically compete at the right end of the table, along with a manager who improves players rather than ruins them.  
 

[roversfan99]

Just now, DE. said:

Travis - solid midfielder who again appears to be one of the manager's punching bags. Looks very different now from the lad who broke into the team nearly a year ago. Seems to be having the flair coached out of him so that he can become an Evans/Smallwood clone.
 
 

Brilliant post I almost unanimously agreed with regarding your player summary. Not sure this is fair on Travis though. I do actually agree with Mowbray that he is often too loose on the ball, he was a breath of fresh air since he came into the team and Mowbray has done right by since that moment, having him in almost every single game in the centre of our midfield. Like a few other of our players, I dont think it suits a player like him to try and out pass teams as he isnt that great on the ball, his chasing, harrying and winning the ball back is his key asset. Im not sure he really had the flair you mentioned or a particularly good passing range, maybe you could say that the new "style" is hindering him but I think he has been treated pretty well by the manager since he broke in. Look at Johnson, a far more experienced player who has fallen right out of favour, and Smallwood has never come close to re establishing himself since that watershed moment.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Absolutely no chance, especially on the back of a fairly hefty deficit already.

I think you overestimate the quality of them players. I thought you wanted Brereton to play? Armstrong has repeatedly been shite, why is he in your team? Bennett and Walton youve made a note that you want replacements in January which is fair enough, but we are handicapped with them in the team until then. You think Williams can play a part as a top 6 quality left back. You think that the midfield partnership is top 6 quality?

I said that the signings Mowbray should have made in the summer just gone. How many times Roversfan99 do I need to say it? 

Under a manager who set them up right, getting us defending properly and back to basics we would get there. 

You asked people to name their best 11 and Ive done that. now you complain yet again? I would have picked Cunningham but he is out injured for the season

Ive been telling you on here and other social media sites we needed experience keeper, right back, 2 centre backs and left back signings last summer, we didn't do this and now it cost us big time. The Blame lays at Mowbray manager office door. 

Armstrong plays cos he the best right wide player we got. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[DE.]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Brilliant post I almost unanimously agreed with regarding your player summary. Not sure this is fair on Travis though. I do actually agree with Mowbray that he is often too loose on the ball, he was a breath of fresh air since he came into the team and Mowbray has done right by since that moment, having him in almost every single game in the centre of our midfield. Like a few other of our players, I dont think it suits a player like him to try and out pass teams as he isnt that great on the ball, his chasing, harrying and winning the ball back is his key asset. Im not sure he really had the flair you mentioned or a particularly good passing range, maybe you could say that the new "style" is hindering him but I think he has been treated pretty well by the manager since he broke in. Look at Johnson, a far more experienced player who has fallen right out of favour, and Smallwood has never come close to re establishing himself since that watershed moment.

Flair was maybe the wrong word to use, but when he first got into the team he was constantly pushing forward and looking for ways to get up the pitch. Nowadays he seems more neutered and as a result has become less effective. Still a good player who has a ton of potential, but whilst he was a breath of fresh air when he came into the team he now seems more hindered in his approach. When I read comments from Mowbray about analysing the amount of times he gives away the ball, etc, it annoys me because I'm sure a lot of those times he's looking to try and release a player in a forward position rather than pass sideways or backwards like most of the players around him. Completing a pass doesn't mean much if it isn't leading to anything. I fear that he's being coached to be risk-averse, like every other player in our team, and in time that will dilute the better qualities he brings to the table. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by DE.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Let me pose you all the question I posed Chaddy earlier - if you could turn back the clock how many of Mowbray's signings would you still sign ? A handful at the most as far as I'm concerned.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Let me pose you all the question I posed Chaddy earlier - if you could turn back the clock how many of Mowbray's signings would you still sign ? A handful at the most as far as I'm concerned.

sorry Tyrone Shoelaces I honestly didn't see the question 

Every signing since we got promoted last season?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

sorry Tyrone Shoelaces I honestly didn't see the question 

Every signing since we got promoted last season?

You can do it that from that point if you like but I was thinking more of since Mowbray joined us. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You can do it that from that point if you like but I was thinking more of since Mowbray joined us. 

Yes column 

Armstrong, Reed, Rothwell, Cunningham, Tosin, Downing

Possible

Davenport

They were players we have chance Mowbray didn't like John McGinn who was at Hibs

They were number of players I would signed instead of who we did

Edited November 24, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Yes column 

Armstrong, Reed, Rothwell, Cunningham, Tosin, Downing

Possible

Davenport

I'd say no to Armstrong, I think he's playing at a level beyond his ability. Reed was good, albeit criminally misused,  Rothwell, yes given he didn't cost much, Cunningham looked the part but we'll never really know now, Tosin could come good but he's not our player, Downing Mm, I'm not sure I would have signed him given his age, 2 years ago I would have said yes.

Davenport ? Why. Was he any better than the lads we already had ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes column 

Armstrong, Reed, Rothwell, Cunningham, Tosin, Downing

Possible

Davenport

They were players we have chance Mowbray didn't like John McGinn who was at Hibs

They were number of players I would signed instead of who we did

McGinn would have been a massive signing but would he have got the Reed treatment and been played out wide? Whatever happened to  that Scots centre half we were chasing that eventually went to Sheff Utd ? Another  player we were allegedly interested in, Dylan McGeoch , is currently warming the bench at Sunderland. Having said that when I saw him play in the flesh he was the best player on the pitch.

Edit, the Scots centre half we were after was Ben Heneghan, currently on loan from Sheff Utd at Blackpool. He played for them yesterday.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

McGinn would have been a massive signing but would he have got the Reed treatment and been played out wide?

Nah, he’d have had to watch how Richard and Corry play so he knows where to be and all that

[simongarnerisgod]

we`ve only got a problem in defence,elsewhere we are a half decent side,who should be in the top half comfortably

walton-a definate downgrade on raya,no point keeping a goalie who gifts the opposite points

bennett-makes a cock up every week,only in side cos he`s mowbrays favourite

williams-weak as a kitten,bullied by the pne donkey c/f stockley,says it all tbh and terrible as a left back

tosin-going to be a class player,will not be here next season

nyambe-athletic full back but shocking positional awareness

bell-this league beyond his level imo

lenaghan-good header of a ball,combative leader,should be captain,injury prone

[roversfan99]

54 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

Half of the answer is clouded by what Mowbray is doing in terms of tactics and player positioning.

Most of us thought that Arma was a steal at £1.75m, as he did extremely well for us in the second half of our season in League One, and he had shown that he had the potential to make it back in the Championship. So what's the problem? The problem is Mowbray; he doesn't know what to do with him. Up front? Out wide? Impact sub? Can't decide! You could say the same about most of Mowbray's other signings. Was Bell signed for this 3-5-2 wing-back formation that was evident at one point? Or is he now playing in a position where he's simply tosh but he just has to try and fit in? Similar things could be said about Gallagher, Brereton, Samuel, Chapman, Johnson, and so on. It just feels like there is a decent squad with no top-level plan to it all. This is, ultimately, why I think the writing is on the wall for Mogga. If he can't decide after three years what his best XI and style of play is, then he never will. I realise that things can change (personnel, finances, whatever), but it spells trouble for me.

On that basis, I don't really agree with @Tyrone Shoelaces view that the squad is over-estimated by many, but what shows some of the players in bad light is how they are used. It's an extremely difficult question to answer, because I have a feeling that a decisive manager would allow the players to show their real colours.

Again, to clarify this is in no way defending Mowbray because he signed them but I think you are being generous on the players you have mentioned.

Armstrong played wide for the vast, vast majority of last season, he almost exclusively starts full stop, and he was rubbish for the vast majority. One superb month aside he was very poor. Ultimately this was the same role that he succeed in League One, which may be the 2 most important words. A lack of influence/output and often a lack of effort from him.

Theres a bit of a myth that I sometimes see that Bell is a good attacking full back (or wing back) and just poor defensively.  He is as bad as youll see going forward too, the countless amount of times he has space ahead and he just checks back, very rarely does he get a cross in and even rarer a successful one. Technically poor too, 18 out of 44 passes apparently made successfully yesterday, considering his penchant for turning back and playing it safe thats incredibly poor. The amount of times the ball comes into his vicinity especially in the air and he just heads or kicks it in the direction he is facing is unreal. Such a poor player.

[Ewood Ace]

Our squad is massively overrated by many, talk of a play off challenge was always sheer lunacy from the manager. Bottom half in the Championship is for me reflective of this squad's abilities and I am afraid that is a damning indictment of Mowbray dealings in the transfer market. 

Walton- Tony really out did himself with this one by somehow finding a keeper worse than Raya.

Nyambe- Now that Cunningham is out he is the only decent full back at the club but his confidence has taken a massive hit over the last year after some shameful treatment from the manager.

Bennett- Whatever position he plays he is hopeless. Headless chicken.

Lenihan- Rash and overrated by the manager who puts far too much faith in him.

Tosin- Not at all convinced by him but it's not easy for a young lad like him to come into a shambles of a defence and be expected to make the big difference. I think he would look a better player with a more experienced and calm partner alongside him.

Williams- That we ended the summer window with him being first choice centre back after the manager's defenders are coming speech just epitomised how poor the window was. He is simply not strong enough to be a centre back.

Bell- Has been here for 2 years and I can't think of one game where he has stood out, his defending is shocking. Playing at least a level to high.

Evans- He is what he is will put in some decent performances when he needs a new contract but for the next few years after that you won't get much from him. 

Travis- By far our best midfielder and has a lot of potential but he would certainly benefit from a manager who has more faith in him.

Johnson- Was a good player at this level but looks over he hill now. He's only 32 but on the pitch looks more like a 36 year old.

Holtby- Still too early to tell but showed some class against Huddersfield but no doubt Mowbray will try to get him to cut that out of his game.

Buckley- Again too early to tell but certainly needs to bulk up a bit.

Downing- Steady but unspectacular which probably makes him the best of the summer signings. 

Rothwell- Underused by the manager who seems to have little confidence it him, but for me we are a better team with him playing.

Armstrong- Overused by the manager and for me playing a level to high. 15 goals in 115 Championship game says it all.

Brereton & Gallagher- Two expensive but very poor signings who are not good enough for this level. Gallagher is a shadow of the player he was last time and as for Brereton I still just don't understand the signing. 

Dack- Our stand out player, take him out of our team and we go from a bottom half team to genuine relegation candidates.

Graham- Why is he not being used more? Had fantastic season last season and has a great partnership with Dack yet he has for some reason been cast aside for Gallagher who isn't in the same class as him. We are a better team with him in it. 

[Wegerleswiggle]

From our squad, the only ones I would keep are.

Nyambe 

Lenihan

Travis

Rothwell

Holtby

Dack

Buckley

Graham 

I would try and sign both Cunningham and Adarabayio, the rest I would drive to the nearest train station and make sure they all got on. 

[BlackburnEnd75]

18 hours ago, DE. said:

Flair was maybe the wrong word to use, but when he first got into the team he was constantly pushing forward and looking for ways to get up the pitch. Nowadays he seems more neutered and as a result has become less effective. Still a good player who has a ton of potential, but whilst he was a breath of fresh air when he came into the team he now seems more hindered in his approach. When I read comments from Mowbray about analysing the amount of times he gives away the ball, etc, it annoys me because I'm sure a lot of those times he's looking to try and release a player in a forward position rather than pass sideways or backwards like most of the players around him. Completing a pass doesn't mean much if it isn't leading to anything. I fear that he's being coached to be risk-averse, like every other player in our team, and in time that will dilute the better qualities he brings to the table. 

I really don’t think the way he’s being used helps at all. The lads being asked to be a holding midfielder for Holtby who himself doesn’t look like a natural cm. 

Hes not a sitting midfielder, he’s a box to box midfielder who can drive forward and get stuck in too, ideally I’d place him with a deep lying playmaker but I don’t think we have one (maybe Downing). Maybe someone like Davenport (if he was playing at the required level) would be a good fit for him.

[Gone to seed]

I reckon they are all as baffled as we are about the 'system' TM wants to impose.

Unsurprisingly, this is the result we see on the pitch.

[CD_93]

Squishy in defence.

Stodgy in midfield.

Squandered in attack.

Spiritless in leadership.

Sterile in expectation.

[Gone to seed]

Just now, CD_93 said:

Squishy in defence.

Stodgy in midfield.

Squandered in attack.

Spiritless in leadership.

Sterile in expectation.

You could add: Shite in entertainment value and Sick of this flaming nonsense for a full house of 7S.

McKinsey would be proud of ye.

[Amo]

Walton, Leutwiler, Bell, Evans, Smallwood, Samuel 

Those are the ones I'd offload. Don't think we can afford wholesale changes.

I'd keep Bennett as a utility player. Certainly not captain or first pick.

Armstrong has a decent turn of pace, even if his brain's League One standard.

I'd cut our losses on Gallagher. Never rated him and not sure what possessed us to buy him in the first place.

Brereton I would give another chance under a new manager.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Putting the managerial situation to one side for a second, as this could easily be applied to a new manager. How good is our current squad and what is our best side?

I think our fans massively overestimate how good it is, in my opinion it is no better than a mid table squad full of flaws and weaknesses. Even in areas where we are stronger, ie in midfield, we may have some talented players but they are either all wanting to play similar roles, or their best position is somewhat a mystery. To clarify, this isnt me defending Mowbray, because I still do think he is underachieving in a underwhelming league in terms of quality if not competitiveness, the blame goes to Mowbray in terms of building this squad in the first place.

In goal, we dont have a competent Championship goalkeeper so thats not a good start. I think with the impressive Cunningham written off, our obvious back 4 is Nyambe, Lenihan, Adarabioyo and Williams. Which isnt great, full backs (Nyambe has scope for further improvement) are both very low end Championship full backs, and there is promise in the middle 2 but still to prove they are capable of keeping the goals out. Problem is that all of them has fitness question marks to varying degrees too, so that even if the manager didnt have blind spots to the pair, as I very much doubt that Bell or Bennett would get in any other teams in the league, they would still feature fairly regularly regardless of who the manager is because of a lack of depth.

Midfield is a curious one. In players like Downing and Holtby, you have potentially capable players but ones whose exact position is an unknown. With Downing slowing down perhaps his best position is in central midfield, but I am unconvinced that he can have full control of a match from that role. Holtby I feel is somewhat restricted from a deep role and hasnt impressed me there. Hes a natural number 10, but cant play there as our best player plays there, so for me the best best is to shoehorn him wide right, far from ideal but ultimately we dont have any competent right wingers. Rothwell is a definite for the left wing but again, is he more of a number 10? And has he been given a chance to prove that he can consistently provide goals and assists? And I think Travis for all his energy is a little overrated because we dont have anyone else like him, he has to play I think. I think we have the best choice/depth in midfield but are miles away from having a balanced midfield and I think we will be searching for the correct mix throughout the season.

Up front, pretty simple, and it is the same in regards to playing any of them wide. Gallagher, Armstrong, Brereton and Samuel arent up to it. Graham starts every game he physically can, end of.

We need a new manager, but it will take another few windows run competently this time to get this squad near the play offs.

Defence is easily in the bottom 5 of this division, there are worse, but not many. Midfield is in the top 6 for me. Holtby, Dack, Rothwell are as good as any in this division, but the chances of all three on the pitch consistently with TM in charge are low. Attack is mid table.

Add good, bad and average together and you've got a side that'll finish 15th again.

No improvement on last year, new keeper but makes the same errors as the last one, basically the same player. New striker than can't play football and doesn't get game time up front anyway. Basically a failed year.

We won't go down, but expecting anything above 15th at this stage would be fantastical.