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General Election 2019

General Election 2019 Poll  

70 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. Who will you be voting for in the 2019 General Election?

    • Conservative
      24
    • Labour
      34
    • SNP
      1
    • Liberal Democrat
      6
    • DUP
      0
    • Green Party
      0
    • Independent Group for Change
      0
    • Brexit Party
      2
    • UKIP
      0
    • Plaid Cymru
      2
    • Independent candidate
      0
    • Other
      1


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Just now, darrenrover said:

With a decent majority, Tories offer the best solution out of this malaise to me.

This ain't the centrist Tory party of old. It's now on the hands of English nationalist right wingers who will relish decimating public services and the welfare state, and the NHS.

I'm not sympathetic for those who voted for it - they're got it coming

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8 minutes ago, Gav said:

You’ve voted for more of the same by voting for Jake Berry, which equates to you being happy with the state the country is in.

Fair play to you.

I'm far from happy with the state the country is in Gav, it's a bloody shambles and a worry. Sadly I don't see any one party as having the wherewithal currently to sort it.

Who does in honesty? 

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8 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 Nothing to with immigration and everything to do with lack of investment

A lot to do with immigration. Might not be politically correct for the yogurt-knitters on here but it’s the truth. 

6 hours ago, philipl said:

Immigration is a wonderful thing- we need a lot more.

It CAN be a wonderful thing, but in Britain’s case the multicultural experiment has failed. If you stepped outside your bubble you’d probably realise that.

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49 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Irrespective of political persuasion bluebruce, the country cannot continue to spend beyond it's means. Explain to me how, with the our balance of payments as they are, borrowing to the extent that Labour proposed and alienating further those willing to invest by increased taxation, is the right thing to do.

I don't trust any of them in honesty and think all western Europe, with perhaps the exception of Germany as a consequence of its' manufacturing base, Sweden and Switzerland, is on its' arse. We would be right to extract ourselves from the EU because it cannot sustain itself.

I'm no expert and try to simplisticly apply the logic that you can't have what you don't earn and you can't borrow what you realistically can't pay back. 

It's always been a quandary of mine: who does the country (or any country) borrow money from? Every country is in massive deficit as far as I can see........

Labour aren't proposing major borrowing though. They're proposing raising corporation tax and the highest income tax band to pay for it. They're also not raising it to a historical high at all - in fact it's still a bit less than what it was when the Tories took power. People seem to keep missing this.

There are also numerous ways to get the money beyond that. You can print some (it's not advisable to print too much in case you destabilise the currency, but it can be managed) and you can borrow at quite low interest rates at the moment. A lot of economists have pointed out that it's actually an excellent time to borrow because of the low interest rates. I also happen to work for a company that sells government bonds. We'll offer an investment product, customers ring and buy it, and billions can (and has been) raised that way. Again all we are paying there is a relatively small admin fee and the hardly mind-blowing interest we pay customers.

Another thing people frequently miss is that capitalism is built on the basis of money circulating. When a government spends, that money goes somewhere, inside the economy, and increases the spending power of a lot of people both rich and poor. The more spending power people have, the more people spend, it gets taxed back along the way, and businesses, jobs, the economy in general do well, with VAT, income tax etc all being paid along the way and returning to government coffers. This is part of why the Tories have made cuts absolutely everywhere and yet have still enormously increased the national debt. Governments ran by austerity slow the economy short and long term. We've been one of the slowest recovering major economies in the world from the recession.

'Having what you don't earn' as you said, is also a major feature of modern capitalism. If you invest your borrowing properly it can reap dividends.

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Just now, bluebruce said:

Labour aren't proposing major borrowing though. They're proposing raising corporation tax and the highest income tax band to pay for it. They're also not raising it to a historical high at all - in fact it's still a bit less than what it was when the Tories took power. People seem to keep missing this.

There are also numerous ways to get the money beyond that. You can print some (it's not advisable to print too much in case you destabilise the currency, but it can be managed) and you can borrow at quite low interest rates at the moment. A lot of economists have pointed out that it's actually an excellent time to borrow because of the low interest rates. I also happen to work for a company that sells government bonds. We'll offer an investment product, customers ring and buy it, and billions can (and has been) raised that way. Again all we are paying there is a relatively small admin fee and the hardly mind-blowing interest we pay customers.

Another thing people frequently miss is that capitalism is built on the basis of money circulating. When a government spends, that money goes somewhere, inside the economy, and increases the spending power of a lot of people both rich and poor. The more spending power people have, the more people spend, it gets taxed back along the way, and businesses, jobs, the economy in general do well, with VAT, income tax etc all being paid along the way and returning to government coffers. This is part of why the Tories have made cuts absolutely everywhere and yet have still enormously increased the national debt. Governments ran by austerity slow the economy short and long term. We've been one of the slowest recovering major economies in the world from the recession.

'Having what you don't earn' as you said, is also a major feature of modern capitalism. If you invest your borrowing properly it can reap dividends.

Thanks bluebruce, I appreciate your measured post. Some of the proposals wouldn't be to my liking and surely would only considered as last gasp measures.

It is what it is and we'll all have to live by the results. Unless it's a hung parliament of course and Corbyn jumps into bed with Nicola Sturgeon........

Despite all else, COYB at Brissol on Saturday!

 

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

nothing to do with racist at all Harry. So you need to delete that comment right now! Cos it is totally BS

We are Javid and Patel on the Tory front bench. 

Look at Abbott statements about MI5 that she wanted to abolish during the IRA days, or her comments on Parents sending their kids to private schools but its fine for her to send her kids there. Or all the gaffs she done. Posted that videos not long ago.m 

The same Patel recently sacked for discussing siphoning money from the UK to Israel and leaking security secrets to Israel? The same Patel who smiled while letting the 'Freudian slip' of 'ending British freedom of movement' while talking about Brexit?

Abbott (for her many faults) didn't want to abolish MI5, she wanted to see it reformed (which it was under the Major and Blair governments).

Re: sending her kids to private school, she even said herself 'I have no excuse'. Probably the most honest thing a politician has said. At least she didn't hide in a fridge.

Edited by Mike E

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1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

Despite 160 economists saying that Labour’s manifesto was fine, everyone else knows best. 
That figures. 

What did the IFS say? 

How is paying for Woman pensioner fund of 58 million pounds? McDonnell he will have to borrow the money. 

Fully cost my a$$

Corbyn's policies I dont agree with like I said many times. 

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Mike

there can be no serious conversation on the subject of Diane Abbott.

Hasn't she been locked in the party broom cupboard (Like Rees Mogg) to avoid daily media own goals and twitter ridicule.

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

What did the IFS say? 

How is paying for Woman pensioner fund of 58 million pounds? McDonnell he will have to borrow the money. 

Fully cost my a$$

Corbyn's policies I dont agree with like I said many times. 

I don’t want to fully cost your backside, that’s between you and your partner, if that floats your boat!


Just because you don’t want to believe it, doesn’t mean it’s true. Even if Jeremy Corbyn’s manifesto contained notes for a better life for you, you’d ignore it, but it’s your life, you do what you want, as I expect you will! 

Just don’t expect any sympathy if it gets worse, though I’m sure you’ll still manage to find a way to blame Labour, if it does.

Edited by K-Hod

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17 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Thanks bluebruce, I appreciate your measured post. Some of the proposals wouldn't be to my liking and surely would only considered as last gasp measures.

It is what it is and we'll all have to live by the results. Unless it's a hung parliament of course and Corbyn jumps into bed with Nicola Sturgeon........

Despite all else, COYB at Brissol on Saturday!

 

No problem mate, civil discourse is important in politics. As is admitting the flaws and weaknesses, as well as the strengths, of every policy and party.

It can be hard for people to keep it civil sometimes, as passions ride so high and the decisions affect us so much, far more than most even realise. I can't pretend I've never blown my top too, but I try to keep it polite even when I'm frustrated.

Your last point is a good one. I hope after all's said and done, we remember we're all Rovers fans and we're all British (I assume, in this thread) and can focus more on what unites us than what divides us, no matter how batshit crazy we might think a different view is.

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1 hour ago, bazza said:

I have to take you up on that, Jim. What is wrong in calling African children piccaninis? The Africans themselves call their children that. Kaya is African for house. The WC compartment is known as the PK, short for piccanini kaya (little house?

Am I not allowed to refer to German children as kinder?

You certainly are allowed to refer to anyone in any way you like but we assign value to vocabulary arbitrarily. Language that is acceptable for people of one culture to use isn’t always acceptable for others. Try referring to African Americans as n***ers and you’ll come across as a racist moron - we all know what that phrase is associated with. Some Tottenham fans refer to themselves as Yids but I’m sure you can imagine the furore if Jeremy Corbyn used that phrase in conversation.

Boris Johnson was not trying to be grammatically correct when he referred to “picaninnies with watermelon smiles”. To suggest anything else is at best contrarianism and at worst it’s simply trying to defend the indefensible by any means, for what reason I do not know. 

Also, there is no such language as “African”.

Edited by The Hypnotic

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I reckon it’ll be a hung parliament more bumbling along getting nothing done.

Collectively this bunch of politicians are a real mendacious shower of shit. More so than normal.

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Just now, Amo said:

What does the holocaust have to do with the general election? Expect better from a moderator than to stoop that low tbh.

Low? I think that’s rich from someone who believes in the far right tropes of holocaust denial, the “failed globalisation experiment” and that trans people are “mentally ill”.

Views are fair game to commented on - if you’re willing to share them that is.

I find it no coincidence that you’d align yourself politically as you do taking past posts into account. I also find the lack of empathy no surprise either.

So from my perspective, anyone who holds such nasty views is the lowest of the low.

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8 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/overviewoftheukpopulation/november2018

Immigration exceeding emigration by a quarter of a million.

Births outnumbering deaths by 148,000.

UK Born / British Nationals down from 2007.

There are numerous reasons why our population is growing but the biggest contributory factors is immigration / ageing population. All of which is placing a huge strain on our public services / infrastructure as Amo pointed out.

To accept the stats isn't "old-fashioned prejudice", racist or whatever other phrase people use to talk down the point - it's simply accepting the truth.

NHS depending on immigration to keep running?

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16 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I don’t want to fully cost your backside, that’s between you and your partner, if that floats your boat!


Just because you don’t want to believe it, doesn’t mean it’s true. Even if Jeremy Corbyn’s manifesto contained notes for a better life for you, you’d ignore it, but it’s your life, you do what you want, as I expect you will! 

Just don’t expect any sympathy if it gets worse, though I’m sure you’ll still manage to find a way to blame Labour, if it does.

Cos it isnt true about Corbyn's policies. Look at what the IFS said about his policies. His taxes wont cover for his spending plans. 

 

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7 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

But the fact remains that the NHS probably won't be funded to the level it requires under Labour either.

The health system needs an extensive overhaul from being a prescriptive treatment service to a preventative treatment service. More money is needed to improve the lifestyles of its people. This doesn't necessarily mean money direct to the NHS but money spent on awareness of the importance of health and wellbeing. Our population is @ 70m and we are living for longer, these problems will only be exacerbated in decades time unless we as people get a) healthier and b) our families bare the burden of our increased living age. It's no use homing people in social care when it is clearly causing huge deficits in the NHS and has done so long before the Tory austerity years. Deficits began before then and have continued to rise in line with an increasing population. In countries like Japan there is less emphasis on "more beds for the Elderly" and more about keeping them engaged in the community, not engaged in the state, and their living age / quality of life outstrips our elderly ten fold.

The huge strain of this population increase is felt in all public services. They are still being run on systems designed decades ago, some (education) nearly a century ago! Funding "back to levels pre-2007" does nothing to address the actual problems and just enables those broken systems to continue to just get by once again.

You talk a lot of sense there----promoting "wellness" instead of curing "illness". But which party is most likely to fund it?

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2 hours ago, darrenrover said:

Irrespective of political persuasion bluebruce, the country cannot continue to spend beyond it's means. Explain to me how, with the our balance of payments as they are, borrowing to the extent that Labour proposed and alienating further those willing to invest by increased taxation, is the right thing to do.

I don't trust any of them in honesty and think all western Europe, with perhaps the exception of Germany as a consequence of its' manufacturing base, Sweden and Switzerland, is on its' arse. We would be right to extract ourselves from the EU because it cannot sustain itself.

I'm no expert and try to simplisticly apply the logic that you can't have what you don't earn and you can't borrow what you realistically can't pay back. 

It's always been a quandary of mine: who does the country (or any country) borrow money from? Every country is in massive deficit as far as I can see........

If all Labour's policies were in place we would still be spending less than France and the same as Germany. Has the roof fallen in there? NO!

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Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Cos it isnt true about Corbyn's policies. Look at what the IFS said about his policies. His taxes wont cover for his spending plans. 

 

Based on your post I quoted, there’s no point debating this with you Chaddy, so I’ll leave it there. Have a lovely evening.

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2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

nothing to do with racist at all Harry. So you need to delete that comment right now! Cos it is totally BS

We are Javid and Patel on the Tory front bench. 

Look at Abbott statements about MI5 that she wanted to abolish during the IRA days, or her comments on Parents sending their kids to private schools but its fine for her to send her kids there. Or all the gaffs she done. Posted that videos not long ago.m 

I didn’t say or call you racist, I think that there are aspects of racism/sexism with how she’s singled out. The stick she gets is not a reflection of her capability - if it was, the likes of Chris Grayling would’ve been hounded out of politics years ago. Even Johnson made huge mistakes in London as mayor(that only dogmatic tories could deny) yet he’s potentially the top politician.... mind blowing how much of a buffoon YOU'RE enabling!

No coincidence he is male / white. There is still huge inequality in politics and life, the way the press report etc - and I’ve got to the point (even if I think Abbott is a poor politician) that it’s incredibly difficult to see it as anything but bullying.

Again - this isn’t about you being racist Chaddy, it’s about how I perceive the Abbott stick.

For example; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7784881/Starting-wrong-foot-Labours-Diane-Abbott-appears-rushed-ODD-shoes.html

Daily Mail - use a potentially altered picture to achieve what exactly? Also - notice the one from her twitter below- she’s matching shoes on?!

This kind of stuff only comes from that side of the media, and I can’t see how it’s possible I defend.

 

035F068D-779F-4190-9D58-EC775EF95DF1.jpeg

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Just now, K-Hod said:

Based on your post I quoted, there’s no point debating this with you Chaddy, so I’ll leave it there. Have a lovely evening.

Thankyou

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Abbot is one of the biggest chip on your shoulder racists going. Corbyn should have sacked her ages ago. But he chose to think with his 70s  nostalgia cock instead of his brain.

Looks like a Conservative win, largely because of the unvotable characters in the Labour party. Johnson is an absolute car crash and yet still manages to win. That tells you everything.

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