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4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Correct. However if they'd have started with the 11 that finished the game they might have won that game.  The " Big Man " was a 40 years old journeyman but Newcastle couldn't deal with him. Going 4-4-2 enabled them to play a more direct game than the 3-5-1-1 they started out with.

 Watched it on MoD. Cracking game - Roichdale could easily have won. Newcastle right winger looks a good player. 

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9 hours ago, Blue blood said:

What surprises me about it was that TM saw through Steele very quickly and got shot of him. Walton is of similar ability and less said about our reserve the better. Given his impatience with Raya too you do wonder how Leut is still here and how we can settle for Walton as our number 1. Shambles. 

Let’s be honest, Leutwiler is here because he is more than happy to be number 2 and won’t be knocking on Mowbray’s door pestering for his chance. If anything he will say exactly what Mowbray wants him to hear.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17644806.jayson-leutwiler-outlines-aims-signing-new-rovers-deal/

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Comments like these are probably best left in the dressing room or in private between player and manager. However you could maybe understand Mowbray making those comments if Gallagher had a history of being a prolific scorer and had suddenly stopped doing the things he was doing that made him so successful. But he hasn't and it was fairly obvious the last time he was here that he would never be more than a run of the mill 5-10 goal a season journeyman at best.

Mowbray's comments therefore come across as trying to kid the owners that he did in fact sign a top class striker but it's Gallagher's fault because he's stopped doing the things he used to. 

Sadly however it's Mowbray's fault as Gallagher has never been much good and never will be.

Gallagher is a centre forward. Playing him out wide to be a target for this woeful cross-field ball that we play has done for him. Racked up the games without being given the right kind of opportunities. Allardyce would have got him those 5-10 goals already, never mind by the end of the season.

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16 minutes ago, david brent said:

Hope there's no spelling mistakes or poor grammar 😁

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4 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

They are Brummies aren't they ?

They are Brummies, aren't they?

Corrected it for you. It's all about standards.

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5 hours ago, Stuart said:

Let’s be honest, Leutwiler is here because he is more than happy to be number 2 and won’t be knocking on Mowbray’s door pestering for his chance. If anything he will say exactly what Mowbray wants him to hear.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/17644806.jayson-leutwiler-outlines-aims-signing-new-rovers-deal/

Gallagher is a centre forward. Playing him out wide to be a target for this woeful cross-field ball that we play has done for him. Racked up the games without being given the right kind of opportunities. Allardyce would have got him those 5-10 goals already, never mind by the end of the season.

Gallagher has mainly played up front for us, its a myth to suggest that hes spent all season toiling out wide, although the fact that he has played there at all is bizarre.

As @RevidgeBlue says he is a poor player and ultimately, having had him before, the blame falls at Mowbray mainly for actually signing him in the first place.

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7 hours ago, Stuart said:

Gallagher is a centre forward. Playing him out wide to be a target for this woeful cross-field ball that we play has done for him. Racked up the games without being given the right kind of opportunities. Allardyce would have got him those 5-10 goals already, never mind by the end of the season.

Hi Stuart.

If you're going to blame Gallagher's poor form on him being shunted out wide (which to an extent is fair) then I think you could make the same argument even more strongly for Brereton.

I do think on balance we've seen enough of Gallagher up front to know that he wouldn't know where the back of the net was if you handed him a sat nav and a set of directions. He just doesn't have a striker's instinct for me and seems to have succumbed to this modern way of thinking that "there's so much more to a striker's game than scoring goals." Irrelevant if you're not scoring for me.

Another poster (may have been Blue Blood but I couldn't find the post to reply) said yesterday he thought Brereton was irretrievable and Gallagher was salvageable. I actually see it as the other way round Brereton is only 21 in April whereas Gallagher will be 25 in September and really should be at or near his peak. I also get a slight sense when watching Brereton that there might be a player in there somewhere trying to get out whereas I don't get any positive vibe off Gallagher whatsoever. Might be completely wrong of course, everyone rates players differently. I thought Rochina was bordering on genius, certainly more than good enough for us in the Championship, others couldn't stand him.

Another thing that struck me in all the Brereton chat over the last 24 hours was that Mowbray has more than once blamed Gallagher's lack of progression over the last couple of years on lack of game time since he was here on loan. Yet conversely apparently he seems to think the way to bring Brereton on is to leave him out of the squad altogether, or put him on the bench but not use him, or give him 20 - 25 minutes out of position every so often!

Very odd.

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1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Hi Stuart.

If you're going to blame Gallagher's poor form on him being shunted out wide (which to an extent is fair) then I think you could make the same argument even more strongly for Brereton.

I do think on balance we've seen enough of Gallagher up front to know that he wouldn't know where the back of the net was if you handed him a sat nav and a set of directions. He just doesn't have a striker's instinct for me and seems to have succumbed to this modern way of thinking that "there's so much more to a striker's game than scoring goals." Irrelevant if you're not scoring for me.

Another poster (may have been Blue Blood but I couldn't find the post to reply) said yesterday he thought Brereton was irretrievable and Gallagher was salvageable. I actually see it as the other way round Brereton is only 21 in April whereas Gallagher will be 25 in September and really should be at or near his peak. I also get a slight sense when watching Brereton that there might be a player in there somewhere trying to get out whereas I don't get any positive vibe off Gallagher whatsoever. Might be completely wrong of course, everyone rates players differently. I thought Rochina was bordering on genius, certainly more than good enough for us in the Championship, others couldn't stand him.

Another thing that struck me in all the Brereton chat over the last 24 hours was that Mowbray has more than once blamed Gallagher's lack of progression over the last couple of years on lack of game time since he was here on loan. Yet conversely apparently he seems to think the way to bring Brereton on is to leave him out of the squad altogether, or put him on the bench but not use him, or give him 20 - 25 minutes out of position every so often!

Very odd.

He should have been aware of Gallagher's lack of progression before he re-signed him. That's a really lame excuse.

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6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Gallagher has mainly played up front for us, its a myth to suggest that hes spent all season toiling out wide, although the fact that he has played there at all is bizarre.

As @RevidgeBlue says he is a poor player and ultimately, having had him before, the blame falls at Mowbray mainly for actually signing him in the first place.

I can recall very few games where he has started as centre forward and very few when Graham coming off hasn’t resulted in Armstrong going in the middle while Gallagher goes on a wing.

Although granted I don’t get to away games.

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13 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I can recall very few games where he has started as centre forward and very few when Graham coming off hasn’t resulted in Armstrong going in the middle while Gallagher goes on a wing.

Although granted I don’t get to away games.

V Bristol City, Birmingham and Huddersfield, started up front in a 2, and scored in none of the games. Whilst it doesnt account for examples such as Huddersfield away when he did play a small chunk of the end of the game wide, @JoeH backed up what I was saying with some stats that proved that he plays mainly central.

Playing him wide at all is a bizarre idea that Mowbray thinks works but still it doesnt excuse his incompetence even when he is down the middle. Another poor signing by Mowbray.

 

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3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Hi Stuart.

If you're going to blame Gallagher's poor form on him being shunted out wide (which to an extent is fair) then I think you could make the same argument even more strongly for Brereton.

I do think on balance we've seen enough of Gallagher up front to know that he wouldn't know where the back of the net was if you handed him a sat nav and a set of directions. He just doesn't have a striker's instinct for me and seems to have succumbed to this modern way of thinking that "there's so much more to a striker's game than scoring goals." Irrelevant if you're not scoring for me.

Another poster (may have been Blue Blood but I couldn't find the post to reply) said yesterday he thought Brereton was irretrievable and Gallagher was salvageable. I actually see it as the other way round Brereton is only 21 in April whereas Gallagher will be 25 in September and really should be at or near his peak. I also get a slight sense when watching Brereton that there might be a player in there somewhere trying to get out whereas I don't get any positive vibe off Gallagher whatsoever. Might be completely wrong of course, everyone rates players differently. I thought Rochina was bordering on genius, certainly more than good enough for us in the Championship, others couldn't stand him.

Another thing that struck me in all the Brereton chat over the last 24 hours was that Mowbray has more than once blamed Gallagher's lack of progression over the last couple of years on lack of game time since he was here on loan. Yet conversely apparently he seems to think the way to bring Brereton on is to leave him out of the squad altogether, or put him on the bench but not use him, or give him 20 - 25 minutes out of position every so often!

Very odd.

You have a point about Brereton. He has been played at CF less that Gallagher. In both cases I can remember both of them scoring when playing in the centre. Brereton last season against (an admittedly poor) Bolton and Gallagher getting 1.5 against Preston this season. Neither has been given a consistent spell there. Can you imagine Graham being stuck out wide? It’s either a lack of trust or a lack of respect.

Both players have been misused but it has been poor scouting in both cases if neither were/are deemed ready to replace Danny Graham. We should have spent half of the money on a thirty-something striker and the rest on his wages. A Stewart Downing up front.

It seems that someone has been seduced by the idea of doubling the money for one of them after a season scoring goals in the Championship. Yet Rhodes only brought in an extra £1m on what was paid and Dack was a cheap purchase because of his damaged reputation off the field that (almost) paid off (but we waited too long). The main players* we have really made money on under Venkys have been defensive ones and a goalkeeper (Raya, Duffy, Hanley, Dann, Olsson, Bunn, Jones, N’Zonzi) - yet we don’t reinvest any money in this area.

*Gestede and Cairney being the exceptions.

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3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Hi Stuart.

If you're going to blame Gallagher's poor form on him being shunted out wide (which to an extent is fair) then I think you could make the same argument even more strongly for Brereton.

I do think on balance we've seen enough of Gallagher up front to know that he wouldn't know where the back of the net was if you handed him a sat nav and a set of directions. He just doesn't have a striker's instinct for me and seems to have succumbed to this modern way of thinking that "there's so much more to a striker's game than scoring goals." Irrelevant if you're not scoring for me.

Another poster (may have been Blue Blood but I couldn't find the post to reply) said yesterday he thought Brereton was irretrievable and Gallagher was salvageable. I actually see it as the other way round Brereton is only 21 in April whereas Gallagher will be 25 in September and really should be at or near his peak. I also get a slight sense when watching Brereton that there might be a player in there somewhere trying to get out whereas I don't get any positive vibe off Gallagher whatsoever. Might be completely wrong of course, everyone rates players differently. I thought Rochina was bordering on genius, certainly more than good enough for us in the Championship, others couldn't stand him.

Another thing that struck me in all the Brereton chat over the last 24 hours was that Mowbray has more than once blamed Gallagher's lack of progression over the last couple of years on lack of game time since he was here on loan. Yet conversely apparently he seems to think the way to bring Brereton on is to leave him out of the squad altogether, or put him on the bench but not use him, or give him 20 - 25 minutes out of position every so often!

Very odd.

Yes, I said I thought Gally was redeemable but Bereton wasn't mainly because I think his work ethic and getting chances are attributes that I've seen, whereas haven't seen any positives or attributes  so to speak from what I've seen of Bereton. However, as you graciously say, who knows - who knows how much of Bereton's issues are mental and confidence issues arising from mismanagement? I totally agree that Bereton's progress is being kiboshed by limited time often out of position. As you say TM is quick to lament Gally's development but it's not a model of progression that we are seeing with Bereton. Even stranger that he does it. However we all know what TM says and does don't always match up and can be a PR exercise only. 

One last factor to consider hindering both strikers is each other! We have 2 poor strikers needing game time and often only 1 can come in for Graham. And when playing together it can't help the other having such a limited strike partner. Having 2 duds compounds our problems. 

As you say it's about opinions (agree about Rochina btw) but for me if I had to back one of them it would be Gally. That said it's a rum do when you're debate centres on which expensive signing might not be a complete flop! 

 

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5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

V Bristol City, Birmingham and Huddersfield, started up front in a 2, and scored in none of the games. Whilst it doesnt account for examples such as Huddersfield away when he did play a small chunk of the end of the game wide, @JoeH backed up what I was saying with some stats that proved that he plays mainly central.

Playing him wide at all is a bizarre idea that Mowbray thinks works but still it doesnt excuse his incompetence even when he is down the middle. Another poor signing by Mowbray.

Not saying that he (and Brereton) aren’t complete no hopers, as you allude to but...

1) Gallagher did very well here on loan when only a striker; Brereton did very well at Forest.

2) Mowbray has a list of players at Rovers who have all regressed - including young players coming through - yet he has kept his same coaching staff and erratic approach to games.

3) Both players, as well as others, have been misused and - like many others - their confidence is shot. It’s hard to judge under these conditions. They could both well thrive elsewhere. In the last few home games it has been a real struggle to pick out a man of the match based on how badly they’ve all played.

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23 minutes ago, Stuart said:

3) Both players, as well as others, have been misused and - like many others - their confidence is shot. It’s hard to judge under these conditions. They could both well thrive elsewhere. In the last few home games it has been a real struggle to pick out a man of the match based on how badly they’ve all played.

You could say he's completely stunted Rothwell and Nyambe's progress too, and for what, no progress at all as a team.  I'm convinced he's on the take and stringing this along 

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1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Not saying that he (and Brereton) aren’t complete no hopers, as you allude to but...

1) Gallagher did very well here on loan when only a striker; Brereton did very well at Forest.

2) Mowbray has a list of players at Rovers who have all regressed - including young players coming through - yet he has kept his same coaching staff and erratic approach to games.

3) Both players, as well as others, have been misused and - like many others - their confidence is shot. It’s hard to judge under these conditions. They could both well thrive elsewhere. In the last few home games it has been a real struggle to pick out a man of the match based on how badly they’ve all played.

I personally dont think Gallagher "did very well" here by any means, he did OK. Likewise Brereton didnt do "very well" at Forest, he was scoring infrequently and eventually couldnt make the squad.

I dont doubt many of your points to be fair, I do agree with player misuse and stagnation and questions about his coaching staff but I think Mowbrays main failing is his really poor transfer recruitment. I dont think any manager could get that much from these 2 players.

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4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I personally dont think Gallagher "did very well" here by any means, he did OK. 

He scored 11 goals in that season. Not bad for a season for young player. He was 21 years old

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8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

He scored 11 goals in that season. Not bad for a season for young player. He was 21 years old

Yeah, 1 goal every 4 games, not bad. But not "very good." 

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1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Yeah, 1 goal every 4 games, not bad. But not "very good." 

For a really big guy I thought he didn't use his size like he should have done. I got the feeling he was a lightweight when it came to putting himself about. You need let your opponents know that they're in for a busy afternoon, age shouldn't really come in to it. Somebody 6' 4" should be dominating his immediate opponents in the air and apart from jumping with much shorter guys he never did.

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