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Sounds like a race to the bottom to me

Add racism in both parties to the list of charges and you’re somewhere near the truth.

Starmer has started off well, he needs to continue to get rid the old guard, the nasty racist element that exists in the shadows and build the Labour Party back into effective opposition.

Maybe then I’ll consider voting for them, but until that time many will abstain. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

What a load of tripe.

There's loads of criticism anyone can throw at Labour over its failures since 2010 but one of them isn't the sheer industrial scale of lying that has infected this Tory government under Johnson and to a lesser extent the previous ones under May and Cameron. 

More than 85% of Tory online ads were found to be untruthful in the last election campaign compared to less than 10% of Labour's, and since Johnson came to power he and his government have constantly mislead parliament on a number of issues, not least during the coronavirus crisis over PPE, testing, track and trace, care homes, trips to Barnard Castle, you name it.  

The Conservative political commentator Peter Oborne (yes, a Tory) was so concerned about Johnson's assault on truth and integrity, he created this website in the last election campaign keeping track of just some of Johnson's lies.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/?fbclid=IwAR1rMRWet2_YE9zUStSXUd9HVm4bCMIYHDokVrAjcPPZgm2usFCjryS32Ec

Johnson, who was sacked from 2 jobs for lying, lies far too often for one man to keep track of them all, so it's nowhere near comprehensive, but at least somebody out there is even trying, eh?

So to say Labour and Tories are "both sides of the same coin" is nonsense, while to tar Sturgeon, who has more integrity in her little finger than Johnson has in is over-bloated body and, unlike Johnson, has emerged from the Covid crisis with her reputation enhanced as a strong and decisive leader, with the same brush is plainly ridiculous

Just to add to Jim's post, I heard on Today, about 2 minutes ago, that Johnson has been found to have presented wrong info during PMQ's. Answering Keir Starmer on the matter of child poverty, Johnson presented 3 sets of statistics to show that child poverty was on the decline.

All 3 figures are wrong! In other words ---he lied--- again.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/30/boris-johnson-repeatedly-used-inaccurate-child-poverty-figures

Boris Johnson repeatedly used inaccurate child poverty figures

UK statistics watchdog confirms PM exaggerated Tory record on issue

Edited by 47er

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Just a heads up.

20%+ of the names in Epstein's black book are British.

Ghislaine Maxwell of course is British.

Rumours coming out of America suggest the papers to be disclosed by the Courts in the Maxwell case are going to be terrible for:

Prince Andrew

Jersey Channel Island

Of course the American Judge has no particular interest in redacting stuff on Brits.

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I bet Donald and Bill are feeling worried about it. The establishment will protect Prince Andrew, and he'll not face any consequences.

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9 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

I bet Donald and Bill are feeling worried about it. The establishment will protect Prince Andrew, and he'll not face any consequences.

If it were in the UK that would be the case.

In the US, the UK is going to have to burn a decade of favours to keep Randy Andy out of bother. As it is the redactions are simply blocking names that American commentators hve already worked out which blanks are him and if they are right, boy is he one steaming scum bag. He holidayed 8 times with Maxwell and Epstein came along on 5 of them.

The fact he didn't even attend his own daughter's wedding tells you everything about how deeply in the shit he is. 

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We should swap Prince Andrew for Anne Sacoolas, get some justice for Harry Dunns poor family and throw that lying swine under the bus in the process.

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1 minute ago, Gav said:

We should swap Prince Andrew for Anne Sacoolas, get some justice for Harry Dunns poor family and throw that lying swine under the bus in the process.

There's more chance of Prince Andrew becoming King than of Anne Sacoolas coming back to this country. Our inept foreign secretary has seen to that.

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49 minutes ago, philipl said:

If it were in the UK that would be the case.

In the US, the UK is going to have to burn a decade of favours to keep Randy Andy out of bother. As it is the redactions are simply blocking names that American commentators hve already worked out which blanks are him and if they are right, boy is he one steaming scum bag. He holidayed 8 times with Maxwell and Epstein came along on 5 of them.

The fact he didn't even attend his own daughter's wedding tells you everything about how deeply in the shit he is. 

The royals will see to it that he is not in any trouble. There are still Lords, MPs and judges servile enough to hush it up and keep him out of jail, and stuff the consequences. And if many high profile American business and political figures are also involved, then the story will be sure to fizzle out.

If say Bill Clinton is named and pursued, then Democrat leaning judges, senators and so on will try to find Republican people involved, and they will, as characters like Epstein play both sides of the political divide. Then it'll be a mess for everyone to be part of. Better to keep the names and the details hidden like all the nuclear weapons but let the other side know they have them.

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50 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

The royals will see to it that he is not in any trouble. There are still Lords, MPs and judges servile enough to hush it up and keep him out of jail, and stuff the consequences. And if many high profile American business and political figures are also involved, then the story will be sure to fizzle out.

If say Bill Clinton is named and pursued, then Democrat leaning judges, senators and so on will try to find Republican people involved, and they will, as characters like Epstein play both sides of the political divide. Then it'll be a mess for everyone to be part of. Better to keep the names and the details hidden like all the nuclear weapons but let the other side know they have them.

https://narativ.org/2020/07/20/crown-and-conundrum/

Too late

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2 hours ago, Gav said:

We should swap Prince Andrew for Anne Sacoolas, get some justice for Harry Dunns poor family and throw that lying swine under the bus in the process.

There is no chance that any US Secretary of State would authorised that. Congress would object. 

Plus Anne Sacoolas is ex CIA isn't she

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3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

There is no chance that any US Secretary of State would authorised that. Congress would object. 

Plus Anne Sacoolas is ex CIA isn't she

Not as far as I know. Even if she was it shouldn't confer diplomatic immunity - she's not a diplomat.

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3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Plus Anne Sacoolas is ex CIA isn't she

Yeah and Pompeo was probably her boss , being the ex director of the agency.  

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Posted (edited)

Everyone happy with Johnson rewarding friends, relations, sons of Russian KGB agents, brexiteers, UKIPers  and generally anyone who who has backed him politically recently into the House of Lords where they have a say in this countries politics?

Arent we leaving the EU because Johnson doesn’t like unelected beurocrats?

Adam Boulton thinks it’s corrupt.

“There are people of distinction in #TheLords (some friends of mine) but patronage on this scale (potential earnings & a say lawmaking) is corruption which shames UK. #AbolishtheLords.”

other comments...

Tell me it’s not true. The PM has placed  his own brother into the Lords . Stinks.   Jon trickets

Which is the most quintessentially Boris Johnson peerage? Making a lord of the Russian émigré son of an ex KGB agent [with whom he stayed in Italy both as London mayor and foreign secretary]? Or putting his brother in the Lords?       Robert Peston.

PS peerage is not an honour, People’s Peers fizzled out. Botham isn’t there because he is one of 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Greatest cricketers but, like the others, because a party leader likes the cut of his politics. #AbolishtheLords      Adam Boulton.

Kate Hoey has blocked me so she won’t see this, but I must say the elevation of her, Claire Fox and Evgeny Lebedev to the House of Lord is probably the most undemocatic and most corrupt moment in Britain’s history for two hundred years      Peter Jukes.

Boris Johnson loyalists rewarded with peerages     Financial Times.

there are many more.

 

Edited by den

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No point getting wound up about it den, they all piss in the same pot when it comes to handing out honours.

I think its a disgrace that Bercow hasn't been honoured because he held the Tories to account, childish playground politics. 

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Nothing stopping a different government putting Bercow in the Lords.

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22 minutes ago, den said:

Everyone happy with Johnson rewarding friends, relations, sons of Russian KGB agents, brexiteers, UKIPers  and generally anyone who who has backed him politically recently into the House of Lords where they have a say in this countries politics?

Arent we leaving the EU because Johnson doesn’t like unelected beurocrats?

Adam Boulton thinks it’s corrupt.

“There are people of distinction in #TheLords (some friends of mine) but patronage on this scale (potential earnings & a say lawmaking) is corruption which shames UK. #AbolishtheLords.”

other comments...

Tell me it’s not true. The PM has placed  his own brother into the Lords . Stinks.   Jon trickets

Which is the most quintessentially Boris Johnson peerage? Making a lord of the Russian émigré son of an ex KGB agent [with whom he stayed in Italy both as London mayor and foreign secretary]? Or putting his brother in the Lords?       Robert Peston.

PS peerage is not an honour, People’s Peers fizzled out. Botham isn’t there because he is one of 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Greatest cricketers but, like the others, because a party leader likes the cut of his politics. #AbolishtheLords      Adam Boulton.

Kate Hoey has blocked me so she won’t see this, but I must say the elevation of her, Claire Fox and Evgeny Lebedev to the House of Lord is probably the most undemocatic and most corrupt moment in Britain’s history for two hundred years      Peter Jukes.

Boris Johnson loyalists rewarded with peerages     Financial Times.

there are many more.

 

It sums up the arrogance of Johnson and his cronies. He feels he can do what he wants with impunity.

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40 minutes ago, den said:

Everyone happy with Johnson rewarding friends, relations, sons of Russian KGB agents, brexiteers, UKIPers  and generally anyone who who has backed him politically recently into the House of Lords where they have a say in this countries politics?

Arent we leaving the EU because Johnson doesn’t like unelected beurocrats?

Adam Boulton thinks it’s corrupt.

“There are people of distinction in #TheLords (some friends of mine) but patronage on this scale (potential earnings & a say lawmaking) is corruption which shames UK. #AbolishtheLords.”

other comments...

Tell me it’s not true. The PM has placed  his own brother into the Lords . Stinks.   Jon trickets

Which is the most quintessentially Boris Johnson peerage? Making a lord of the Russian émigré son of an ex KGB agent [with whom he stayed in Italy both as London mayor and foreign secretary]? Or putting his brother in the Lords?       Robert Peston.

PS peerage is not an honour, People’s Peers fizzled out. Botham isn’t there because he is one of 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Greatest cricketers but, like the others, because a party leader likes the cut of his politics. #AbolishtheLords      Adam Boulton.

Kate Hoey has blocked me so she won’t see this, but I must say the elevation of her, Claire Fox and Evgeny Lebedev to the House of Lord is probably the most undemocatic and most corrupt moment in Britain’s history for two hundred years      Peter Jukes.

Boris Johnson loyalists rewarded with peerages     Financial Times.

there are many more.

 

House of Lords is a total embarssment. Just full of political doners of various stripes, many of whom don't even bother to scrutinise legislation which is the whole reason the institution is supposed to exist.

On its last legs - need to come up with a viable alternative soon.

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Claire Fox, the Brexit party member who is/was a far more vocal supporter of the IRA than evil Jeremy Corbyn?

Whilst Ian Botham is a hero at cricket, I'd never have him down as an adept political figure. As usual for these lists it's a PM promoting their mates and handlers. Only it is far more undisguised, as it is only Bozo's mates and handlers.

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7 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Claire Fox, the Brexit party member who is/was a far more vocal supporter of the IRA than evil Jeremy Corbyn?

Whilst Ian Botham is a hero at cricket, I'd never have him down as an adept political figure. As usual for these lists it's a PM promoting their mates and handlers. Only it is far more undisguised, as it is only Bozo's mates and handlers.

In the case of his brother it simply has to be nepotism.

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1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Nothing stopping a different government putting Bercow in the Lords.

Bercow is facing serious allegations of failing to act against bullying of junior staff at Parliament.

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50 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Bercow is facing serious allegations of failing to act against bullying of junior staff at Parliament.

I don't condone bullying, but you get the feeling thats run its course, or they'd have had him out before now.

Look at how the Tories gave Charlie Elphicke the whip back to vote because they needed the numbers, a man who was sexually assaulting women.

Only when it suits the agenda it seems, crooked bastards.

 

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Bercow was hated by the brexiteer wing of the party as they saw him as a pro-EU figure who was acting against them by sticking up for Parliament. It was also harder to remove him than regular Tories like Dominic Grieve or Ken Clarke as he was the Speaker. Looking at the record of Johnson's leadership, you can be accused of sexual assaults, give government information to foreign states, have links to Putin or their secret services, drive dangerously and break lockdown rules but being against leaving the EU is wrong. 

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9 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Bercow was hated by the brexiteer wing of the party as they saw him as a pro-EU figure who was acting against them by sticking up for Parliament. It was also harder to remove him than regular Tories like Dominic Grieve or Ken Clarke as he was the Speaker. Looking at the record of Johnson's leadership, you can be accused of sexual assaults, give government information to foreign states, have links to Putin or their secret services, drive dangerously and break lockdown rules but being against leaving the EU is wrong. 

They forget that Bercow is the one who permitted the initial debates around Brexit in the first place.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Bercow is facing serious allegations of failing to act against bullying of junior staff at Parliament.

how did Prittie Vacant go on?  That's ok she got promoted.

Edited by jodrell

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Re - the peerages, what a tinpot cesspool of corruption the UK has become.

Just when it seems impossible for your prime minister to ignite greater contempt for what passes for UK governance, he demonstrates that there are further depths to be plumbed yet.

And Brexiteers had the ignorance to call the EU undemocratic.

 

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