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The true horror of the UK today is not that we have a regime destroying livelihoods, social cohesion, our sanity and even our very lives. It's that there are still more than enough people who would happily vote for them to carry on doing it.

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1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

It listed pretty much listed to left and got severely damaged in a storm to continue that  boat analogy. Lennie another dinosaur who wants to return to the militant 70s when British industry produced the Austin Allegro whenever they were not on strike. I'm all for unions, but fighting everyone for the sake of it and not trying to reach consensus is damaging.

Maybe Starmer could do what the Tories do and bend over to part their buttocks for any shady Russian business leader, tax dodger and human rights abuses. It worked for the current Conservative government.

 The old "militant trade unions" saw dragged out by the right wing media against Labour during general election campaigns. British Leyland's failings were down to bad designs and poor management - not the the unions defending the interests of their members. The German and France motor industry had and continues to have much stronger trade unions than Britain yet has successful home-owned marques while ours were closed or sold off to foreign buyers because of our inability to manage these companies. 

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9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Only the voters could have stopped Brexit. 

MP's job is in act what we voted for when we have elections or referendums..they serve the people of the country 

What a Democracy and capitalism country does.

No, you’re quite clearly wrong. We live in a parliamentary democracy. Cameron was at fault when he promised that parliament would execute the result of the referendum. He doesn’t control parliament.

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9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Not arguing with that.  He has been trying to gerrymander things irrespective of the eventual outcome.  For that reason alone he should just exit stage right.

All the way through, Bercow ensured that Parliament would have its say. That’s an admirable quality - and he did it in the face of a Tory government doing everything it could to derail parliament.

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When Johnson - Britain's prime minister - broke the law in proroguing parliament at the height of the Brexit crisis...

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/sep/24/boris-johnsons-suspension-of-parliament-unlawful-supreme-court-rules-prorogue

This is what Bercow was pushing back against. He should be congratulated not vilified. 

 

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12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think The current Speaker of the House Hoyle is much better than Bercow ever was. 

You need to think again. Hoyle's only been in the job a dog watch.

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13 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

You don't get it, I'm afraid. It's about the substance of the individual. A person of high calibre can turn up once and make a greater contribution than a no-mark who turns up a thousand times. He'll make a greater contribution to our country than almost anyone else.

You're deluded. The way he flopped as a captain tells me all I need to know about the man.

  On a cricketing point I can't think of another bowler who took as many wickets with bad balls as Botham. He could bowl a long hop a yard outside off stump that you could hit anywhere and the batsman would hit it straight down mid offs throat.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Mike E said:

I actually like Hoyle too, but that particular statement given he's been in the job only a few months is just a weird one. It's not a competition between them.

What did Bercow actually DO that was bad? Was it making sure the Government wasn't allowed to avoid questions? Was it making sure Brexit followed proper procedure rather than be rushed off a cliff?

To clarify: I do think Hoyle, after a couple of years, will prove a better Speaker than Bercow. But making that statement NOW is inevitably a childish bit of petulant 'that man disagreed with me' nonsense.

The job of the Speaker is to remain impartial and make sure the full and wide voice of Parliament is heard. Bercow was actually relatively instrumental in ensuring that, with every PM serving during his tenure admitting as much.

Hoyle's a boot licker. Anybody who can be best mate with that loathsome Nigel Evans can't be on the level.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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6 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You're deluded. The way he flopped as a captain tells me all I need to know about the man.

  On a cricketing point I can't think of another bowler who took as many wickets with bad balls as Botham. He could bowl a long hop a yard outside off stump that you could hit anywhere and the batsman would hit it straight down mid offs throat.

Yep, a bowler of long hops deserves to be in the House of Lords but a man who defends the sovereignty of parliament doesn’t. Mashed potatoes does have a sense of humour 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 47er said:

Given that you are right-wing, anti-Trade Union, I'm assuming you want  Keir Starmer to win this Battle?

But only too happy to benefit from the advances the trade union movement had made in workers conditions of employment over the years. I've worked with a few like Chaddy. 

Just one or two examples. When I first started work in 1965 the standard working  week was  42.5 hours a week. When I left the engineering  industry it was 37 hours. That reduction had to be fought for, the employers didn't concede it out of the goodness of their hearts. Then we had Christmas Day and Boxing Day off, then it was back to work. New Years day was a normal working day. Nowadays most people have a least a week at Christmas. All benefits brought by the trade union movement.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

It listed pretty much listed to left and got severely damaged in a storm to continue that  boat analogy. Lennie another dinosaur who wants to return to the militant 70s when British industry produced the Austin Allegro whenever they were not on strike. I'm all for unions, but fighting everyone for the sake of it and not trying to reach consensus is damaging.

Maybe Starmer could do what the Tories do and bend over to part their buttocks for any shady Russian business leader, tax dodger and human rights abuses. It worked for the current Conservative government.

Speaking as one who worked in the Engineering Industry you make what you get told to make. It's as simple as that. You don't get asked your opinion as to the validity of the design.

I once worked on a machine that took 12 months to build and cost £1million when £1 million was a lot of money. It ended up under a tarpaulin outside on the works yard. I could have told the powers that be that would be the outcome after we were 3 months into the job but nobody was listening.

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3 hours ago, 47er said:

Allegations you mean?

He's a horrible little man, defend away. 😂

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Being a better candidate than his mate for a security role is worse than raping someone.

That's Johnson's standard re: the whip.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You're deluded. The way he flopped as a captain tells me all I need to know about the man.

  On a cricketing point I can't think of another bowler who took as many wickets with bad balls as Botham. He could bowl a long hop a yard outside off stump that you could hit anywhere and the batsman would hit it straight down mid offs throat.

Are you slagging off Ian Botham here TS?

One of the greatest cricketers ever to play the game? Or maybe I’m missing the point? 

 

Edited by Gav

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12 minutes ago, Gav said:

Are you slagging off Ian Botham here TS?

One of the greatest cricketers ever to play the game? Or maybe I’m missing the point? 

 

I'm just pointing out that he had the happy knack of getting really good batsmen out with really shite deliveries from time to time. If you know much about cricket you'll already know what I mean.

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13 minutes ago, Gav said:

Are you slagging off Ian Botham here TS?

One of the greatest cricketers ever to play the game? Or maybe I’m missing the point? 

I don't see how a world class cricketer should be a Lord. It's like arguing Andy Murray or Alan Shearer should be in there.

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18 minutes ago, Gav said:

 One of the greatest cricketers ever to play the game?

Rather an exaggeration, a good cricketer and on his day a very good cricketer. But one of the greatest ever, no way near. 

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13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'm just pointing out that he had the happy knack of getting really good batsmen out with really shite deliveries from time to time. If you know much about cricket you'll already know what I mean.

You don't take over 500 wickets by bowling sh1te deliveries to good batsmen, what a load of cobblers, I assume you don't really follow cricket..

7 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Rather an exaggeration, a good cricketer and on his day a very good cricketer. But one of the greatest ever, no way near. 

Ian Botham "a good cricketer on his day" :lol:

You'll be telling us next "Alan Shearer was a good footballer on his day" 

I need a lie down.......

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1 minute ago, Gav said:

You don't take over 500 wickets by bowling sh1te deliveries to good batsmen, what a load of cobblers, I assume you don't really follow cricket..

Ian Botham "a good cricketer on his day" :lol:

You'll be telling us next "Alan Shearer was a good footballer on his day" 

I need a lie down.......

I said on his day a very good cricketer but if you think he is one of the greatest cricketers ever then you obviously don't have a great knowledge of the sport.

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6 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I said on his day a very good cricketer but if you think he is one of the greatest cricketers ever then you obviously don't have a great knowledge of the sport.

Over 7000 runs and over 500 wickets - Let that sink in.

If you fancy being educated further take this to the cricket thread, I'll be happy to oblige. 

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39 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I don't see how a world class cricketer should be a Lord. It's like arguing Andy Murray or Alan Shearer should be in there.

Charity though isn't it Mike. Neither of them have raised £8 million over the decades along with raising awareness of leukemia, which was less known back then. 

Obviously,  it's absolutely nothing to do with him being a very vocal supporter of Brexit. 🤔🤔

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2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

He's a horrible little man, defend away. 😂

I feel the same about Clare Fox but she is apparently good enough for the Lords.

Whether you like Bercow or not, he was the Speaker for years and the convention has been that the Speaker is elevated to the House of Lords on retirement from the job. He  defended the rights of the House of Commons to have the final say on important constitutional issues rather than allow the government to run roughshod over them.

What the **** has Clare Short ever done that was useful? You could reply that she was part of the Leave campaign but I said "useful".

Pritti Patel is a horrible little woman but she occupies one of the top four jobs in Cabinet.

Hard to avoid the conclusion that Johnson broke with established convention out of personal dislike.

Not one for convention when it doesn't suit him. Hardly Conservative at all is he?

 

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23 minutes ago, Gav said:

Over 7000 runs and over 500 wickets - Let that sink in.

If you fancy being educated further take this to the cricket thread, I'll be happy to oblige. 

He was a tremendous cricketer, one of the best England has ever produced but that's not why he has been" elevated".

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