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11 hours ago, 47er said:

Brexit was about Xenophobia and racism.

Post-referendum analysis showed that the majority of Leave voters were habitual non-voters, the sort of people who have almost zero interest in politics – and are quite likely to include racists.

To “appeal to their hearts”, Vote Leave needed a message. The spectre of 76 million Turks arriving here provided it

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21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It been reported by one newspaper today? Is that correct?.Anybody else reporting like Sky News or ITV News?

Has PM Johnson or any current Government minister mention it during this parliament? 

Yes there was pledge in the Conservative manifesto in 2019 election to update the Human Rights act 1998. Which will bring the ECHR in domestic law. 

I think the manifesto combined with several reportings on the issue over the passt few years strongly suggests it's an idea they are floating around. 

Not sure about the current lot mentioning it but then they are too busy breaking international law. 

Quote

Surely a UK bill of rights after we leave the EU is a good idea. You could have a group of MP's and former judges on a committee and give a recommendation on what a UK Bill of rights could look like. 

No because as has been pointed out we didn't need to amend it to make higher standards. The only way we need to amend it is to make things worse. Ergo if we want to amend it we want to make it worse. Also as I said before I don't want our govt with their poor character deciding my human rights. Thirdly even if this lot had noble intentions (ha!) it leaves our legislation utterly open to being abused and human rights being lower in future as there aren't safeguards from other countries in place. 

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I dont know what was the full bill and without reading it all in full we dont know the full story. Have you read it in full?

No however I'm not sure that I agree with the idea we have to know every full detail in order to pass judgement. After all Brexit or any other Tory policy e.g. covid measures for example, I'm sure you (or I) don't know all the details but that doesn't prevent us from passing judgement on it. Indeed I am certain you have praised policies without knowing all the details!

Also I mentioned a whole host of reasons why I didn't trust them, of which this was one. 

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8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

you can't say that every voter to voted to leave the EU is racism or xenophobia at all and to post things is just BS. 

Nobody ever said that Chaddy---as usual.

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5 hours ago, Gav said:

We have one or two on here making the claim that the leavers are racists,

Not true Gav. Racism/xenophobia was a large component of the sentiment to leave the EU. To deny that is just plain wrong.

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3 hours ago, Blue blood said:

I've seen it mentioned in a few places. Whilst not guaranteed I've heard this rumbling for a while and think there is some truth in it. 

I take it from this you think that it's a lie and won't happen? 

If we have our own bill of rights, there are a number of problems. It allows us to amend, omit or delete rights which are in the Human Rights Act which is where the problem lies. After all why else would we need our own if not to amend it? And as I said, am not sure what would want taking out which won't harm us. 

Not only that having our own bill of rights is much more open to corruption as there's no protection from other nations on it. Think of another country's regime you are not keen on and think are a bit authoritarian and try to imagine whether an individual country having that power is a good thing. 

Having our own bill of rights with lesser standards is what I am afraid of. 

Nothing to worry about---they will never get round to it! As Chaddy says----promised in 2015 and they've been in government ever since!

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7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 Has PM Johnson or any current Government minister mention it during this parliament? 

Yes there was pledge in the Conservative manifesto in 2019 election to update the Human Rights act 1998

You've answered your own question??

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There are perfectly good European Human Rights which were written by the British. I really don't get why Brexiters are trashing some of Britain's greatest creations like the Single Market and the Lisbon Treaty.

Brexiters certainly aren't patriots.

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1 hour ago, RoverDom said:

You've answered your own question??

Yes sort off. 

But no current government minister or PM Johnson has mention it tho. 

Andrew Marr and Sophy Ridge didn't ask the current Justice secretary about the Telegraph article tho yesterday

1 hour ago, philipl said:

There are perfectly good European Human Rights which were written by the British. I really don't get why Brexiters are trashing some of Britain's greatest creations like the Single Market and the Lisbon Treaty.

But we have leave the EU as you say. 

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8 hours ago, Blue blood said:

No however I'm not sure that I agree with the idea we have to know every full detail in order to pass judgement. After all Brexit or any other Tory policy e.g. covid measures for example, I'm sure you (or I) don't know all the details

But I'm not the one with trust issues tho. 

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5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes sort off. 

But no current government minister or PM Johnson has mention it tho. 

Andrew Marr and Sophy Ridge didn't ask the current Justice secretary about the Telegraph article tho yesterday

But we have leave the EU as you say. 

You should go into politics Chaddy.

You are brilliant at deflection, whataboutism and avoiding the point.

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33 minutes ago, philipl said:

You should go into politics Chaddy.

You are brilliant at deflection, whataboutism and avoiding the point.

Will you donate to my campaign fund? B)

 

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17 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Aren't you? Unless I've got you mixed up with someone else, you made a good post on the benefits of Brexit. Assumed from that that you were. If I've got mixed up with whose posting then appologies. 

I made a post on some positives that could come out of it in an attempt to at least show a semblance of balance of opinions on here.

Not everything about it is as doom and gloom, laden with conspiracy as is made out. But, for reference, I voted to remain.

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

But we have leave the EU as you say. 

And as I said before, the ECHR and the EU are not the same entities, and as such we don't need to change it. As others have said, the only reason to do so would be to remove things.

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55 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I made a post on some positives that could come out of it in an attempt to at least show a semblance of balance of opinions on here.

Not everything about it is as doom and gloom, laden with conspiracy as is made out. But, for reference, I voted to remain.

That's helpful to know. And I would agree very little is all 100% bad or good, as I said before. In this case however I think the bad overwhelmingly outweighs the good. I liked your post and thought it was well reasoned however even then the case for Brexit seems very thin. 

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

But I'm not the one with trust issues tho. 

Another very interesting comment. Let's first tackle the deflection issue. Firstly you've shifted from the principle to the specific. 

The principle you state in your post is unless you know all the details you can't pass judgement. Fine, that can be the goalposts. 

I then point out you don't follow this principle as you don't know all the details about many things you have endorsed politically. In other words you break your own principle. 

Your response is to shift from the principle to this specific example. You say it doesn't matter you don't know everything about this specific issue as you haven't got a problem with it. 

But it doesn't matter whether you have a specific issue with this or not.  if the principal is you need to know everything on it to pass judgement then that must be the criteria on ALL political issues, you can't pick and choose when to apply it. And given you haven't applied it in other areas you have endorsed then it shows your criteria to be a sham. The issue is not you not commenting on this issue (although you do you imply they are innocent and there is more to it than this) but you not following the principle on other issues. 

As for trust issues that sounds like - and I appreciate this can be the dangers of written word - like i have trust issues. Am sure that's not what you meant and generally I am a pretty trusting/easygoing chap.

I thenk what was more meant is I have trust issues with the government. That sounds like it is my issue, I have the problem with trust rather than the govt displaying untrustworthiness. Do you think there's anything the government might have done in their tenure that might make me a tad sceptical to trust them? I think there's a few things that indicate the lack of trust may have it's roots in the government's behaviour rather than myself. Can you see any evidence from the government that might make people worried to trust them? 

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

But I'm not the one with trust issues tho. 

No, you're the one with discernment issues!

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1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Will you donate to my campaign fund? B)

 

I will. It will be brilliant entertainment. 😊

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Cameron and Hague have both come out against breaking the law.

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9 minutes ago, philipl said:

Cameron and Hague have both come out against breaking the law.

Some would say that Cameron's entire time in number 10 he was breaking the law.

Austerity was a political choice, not a necessity. 

Edited by Gav

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10 hours ago, 47er said:

Not true Gav. Racism/xenophobia was a large component of the sentiment to leave the EU. To deny that is just plain wrong.

I have a reasonably wide circle of friends, former workmates, drinkers in my local, rugby league club aquaintences etc and almost without exception the Brexiteers were the ones with a dislike of foreigners, especially the ones with a different coloured skin.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Keir Starmer is self isolating now. 

Can't take part in PMQ's or any commons debates by the speaker Hoyle own rules unless he changes them

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8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Keir Starmer is self isolating now. 

Can't take part in PMQ's or any commons debates by the speaker Hoyle own rules unless he changes them

It's an odd one, I'd have thought virtual Qs would've been acceptable.

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2 hours ago, Dreyski said:

Usurping his poster girl Britcliffe?

Why would I challenge the very good MP of Hyndburn for her seat when she is such a great job and working so hard for her community 

Just now, Mike E said:

It's an odd one, I'd have thought virtual Qs would've been acceptable.

Not allowed according what the news coverage is saying. 

Front Bench ministers must be in the commons. 

That's could change in these circumstances 

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