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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Let's see wether that's still the case when the dust settles on the coronavirus. Who'd have thought the Tories would be compelled to adopt all these Labour policies ?

But what you again failed to mention is that we are worldwide pandemic that is killing thousands a day. 

Something was needed to protect jobs and wages plus people's mortgages. 

But if you watch the Sky special report on the Labour party which shows how different parts are in fighting still. Look at Richard Burgon and John McDonnell comments in the special report. Still banging on Corbyn's policies but failed to mention Corbyn lost the last 2 elections

Here the special report for you

https://news.sky.com/story/new-labour-leader-will-take-control-of-a-tired-and-fractious-party-11968344

Edited by chaddyrovers

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9 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Blair did that much for Socialism that he lost a majority twice as big as Johnson's in just over 10 years. How do you explain that one ?

He won elections.

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Let's see wether that's still the case when the dust settles on the coronavirus. Who'd have thought the Tories would be compelled to adopt all these Labour policies ?

Our Liberal (Right wing) government is working with the Labor (yes it's spelt right) opposition along with the premiers of the states in a National Cabinet on this. There are five Labor members to four Liberals, but the Prime Minister takes the advice of that forum plus the advice of the Chief Medical Officer.

They have taken the politics (mainly) out of this opting for the best interests of the country. There's the odd skirmish in the states, where some dept has ballsed up, but generally things have gone to plan, and the stats are showing that the virus is being contained (subject to some fruit loop doing the wrong thing)

I've never ever voted for a right wing party in my life, but, equally I could never vote for a left wing party that didn't try to appease some of the thoughts of those in centrist positions.

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Memories are often short when it comes to politics, Corbyn arrived as party leader in 2015 and almost walked straight into Downing Street. Sadly that initial bounce couldn't be sustained with many front bench MP's such as Kier Starmer and Lisa Nandy turning on Corbyn trying to oust him as leader, no doubt damaging the Labour party for years to come and ultimately making them unelectable. 

Move forward 5yrs and we now have Kier Starmer as leader with many of the MP's that tried to knife Corbyn in the back set to return. I welcome that move myself,  some excellent MP's have been wasted sat on the back benches, but its a long hard road back for Labour and I'm sure nobody in the party is under any illusion about that. 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

He won elections.

Each time the majority went down and down. Have you ever wondered why ? Why is it his name is mud on both the right and left of politics- that's some achievement.

Politics isn't a game. When you win you need to do something.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Each time the majority went down and down. Have you ever wondered why ? Why is it his name is mud on both the right and left of politics- that's some achievement.

Politics isn't a game. When you win you need to do something.

Two landslides, three election wins Tyrone. He did plenty. Shall we make two lists, one on what Blair did for you and your family and one on how Corbyn made your life better?

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32 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Blair did that much for Socialism that he lost a majority twice as big as Johnson's in just over 10 years. How do you explain that one ?

Didnt he win 3 elections in a row? 

Winning is what matters. 

Did you watch that video in the link I sent you? 

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Starmer should put Lisa Nandy in a key post for the reasons others have said, and be a bit of a double act. Starmer being the forensic barrister type getting into the detail, and Lisa doing a lot of interviews on Breakfast TV and being a high profile face for the party to appeal to those who don't like these 'clever London types'.

 

The difficult part is trying to deal with the Momentum cult, who'll be sore after Beccy Corbyn was soundly beaten. Momentum were allowed to be such a big part of Labour because so many moderate and right wing Labour MPs flounced off and refused to work with Jeremy as soon as he won, so he had to get the support from the hard left of the party. It then got out of control, and the hard left became obsessed with controlling the party, ideological purity and persecuting heretics. They've already warned Kier that they'll be watching closely. Winning the party is more important than getting into government for these people.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's why I'm left cold by Starmers election, I couldn't really care less.  He's a decent man but so was Corbyn.

Jeremy Corbyn was a very decent man who was subject to a vicious personal campaign by the right wing press that he did not deserve.  Starmer will get the same abuse when the corona crisis is over. 

However, Starmer now has the opportunity to amplify the gross failures of an inept, lazy government that picks politics over public health, politics over our national interest. 

No wonder the serial lying deadbeat who part time play-acts as PM rushed out a letter 10 minutes before the announcement saying all parties need to work together in the national interest. Finally this numpty will be facing off against someone with the forensic attention to detail of a prosecutor.

Lets hope Sir Keir isn't the only prosecutor this criminally negligent and reckless PM has to face. 

Edited by jim mk2

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1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Each time the majority went down and down. Have you ever wondered why ? Why is it his name is mud on both the right and left of politics- that's some achievement.

Politics isn't a game. When you win you need to do something.

That’s like saying Steve Kean did a better job than Dalglish because Kean never failed to defend a Premier League title.....

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, den said:

Two landslides, three election wins Tyrone. He did plenty. Shall we make two lists, one on what Blair did for you and your family and one on how Corbyn made your life better?

I thought you'd more sense than that Den. Corbyn wasn't in a position to make my life better. I've no doubt that he would have done given the chance.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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11 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I thought you'd more sense than that Den. Corbyn wasn't in a position to make my like better. I've no doubt that he would have done given the chance.

Like everyone keeps saying Tyrone, you can’t do anything from opposition. Corbyn would never have won a general election. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

That’s like saying Steve Kean did a better job than Dalglish because Kean never failed to defend a Premier League title.....

I take the view that Blairism , with it's large majorities did little to reverse the drift towards the glaring social and economic inequality that now blights this country and which has lead to much of the intolerance we see all around us. He was responsible for the free market social democracy that prevailed throughout the late 1990's and beyond . To no small extent that helped to put in place the economic and social structures that were a prerequisite and launch pad  for the hardline austerity years following 2010.

Many of us regret Blairism and were reluctant to contest another election under another version of it's ideologically empty banner.

To quote Thomas Piketty - " We need to win , but we need to win by believing in something more than just winning ".

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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He achieved many things Tyrone that benefitted the working classes and most people, that’s why he stayed in power for as long as he did. Introducing the first minimum wage, shortest nhs waiting lists ever, more doctors, more nurses, free prescriptions for cancer patients, winter fuel payments, pensioners lifted out of poverty, more teachers and teaching assistants...... etc, etc.

isnt that pretty much what Corbyn believed in? yet Blair deliver them.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, den said:

He achieved many things Tyrone that benefitted the working classes and most people, that’s why he stayed in power for as long as he did. Introducing the first minimum wage, shortest nhs waiting lists ever, more doctors, more nurses, free prescriptions for cancer patients, winter fuel payments, pensioners lifted out of poverty, more teachers and teaching assistants...... etc, etc.

isnt that pretty much what Corbyn believed in? yet Blair deliver them.

The problem was nothing he did was set in stone so it was all easily reversed by the Con/Lib coalition. The Attlee Government set the NHS in stone and even the Tories haven't been able to demolish it. History will judge Tony Blair very harshly in future years. A once in a life time opportunity to change things for the betterment of the majority of the population just frittered away. You might not like it but that's the reality of the situation.

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Blair is an odd one. He introduced the minimum wage, living standards went up and things were good for a good while. However, with PFI introduced to the NHS, letting the banks do what they liked, part privatising things like air traffic control and other policies like that it was all done on the credit card so to speak. Long term, it made us very vulnerable to the issues of the 2008 recession and it was a terribly expensive way to build/run new schools and hospitals. The improvements were needed obviously, but it has buggered the NHS since.

As a person he has developed an almost god like status in his own mind during his later years as leader, and he was massively corrupt. There were the flats in Bristol, back handers when selling an over priced radar system to Tanzania and probably many more that I have forgotten about. Tony sent us to a pointless war in Iraq,which helped create or revive international Islamic terrorism because George W Bush and Cheney wanted oil money, and hung out with the likes of Silvio Berlosconi. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Blair is an odd one. He introduced the minimum wage, living standards went up and things were good for a good while. However, with PFI introduced to the NHS, letting the banks do what they liked, part privatising things like air traffic control and other policies like that it was all done on the credit card so to speak. Long term, it made us very vulnerable to the issues of the 2008 recession and it was a terribly expensive way to build/run new schools and hospitals. The improvements were needed obviously, but it has buggered the NHS since.

As a person he has developed an almost god like status in his own mind during his later years as leader, and he was massively corrupt. There were the flats in Bristol, back handers when selling an over priced radar system to Tanzania and probably many more that I have forgotten about. Tony sent us to a pointless war in Iraq,which helped create or revive international Islamic terrorism because George W Bush and Cheney wanted oil money, and hung out with the likes of Silvio Berlosconi. 

 

I would have to disagree with a lot of that Norbert. Much of it is unsubstantiated and unproven.

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Quite rightly we clap the NHS staff and all the social care staff working to make sure we are all looked after during this terrible pandemic, the country comes out in force to show its appreciation and rightly so.

The NHS, social care, council budgets, Public Health England, labs and testing facilities and emergency services have been decimated by Tory cuts, absolutely cut to the bone over the past 10yrs.

So you have to ask yourself, where were these people that are applauding the efforts of NHS during the last election?

Voting tory thats where.........

 

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I have no idea who will be appointed to the Shadow Cabinet but Starmer will destroy Johnson at the Dispatch Box.

Looking forwards to the blood sports every Wednesday.

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9 minutes ago, philipl said:

I have no idea who will be appointed to the Shadow Cabinet but Starmer will destroy Johnson at the Dispatch Box.

Looking forwards to the blood sports every Wednesday.

So you keep saying Philipl but we will see. 

Look at your comment that tactical voting would oust Conservatives out of government. How wrong was you? 

Even your own leader of the party you support was oust out as MP. 

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If I can out argue Johnson over the dinner table, Starmer can dissect him sinew by sinew.

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47 minutes ago, philipl said:

I have no idea who will be appointed to the Shadow Cabinet but Starmer will destroy Johnson at the Dispatch Box.

Looking forwards to the blood sports every Wednesday.

He'll have to get Johnson out of bed first Phillip.

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18 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He'll have to get Johnson out of bed first Phillip.

I hear he is quite bad.

What is atrocious is Hancock being diagnosed, quarantining for half the recommended 14 days then going to the opening of the Nightingale Centre where he coughed his guts.

image.png.63b9806d15e969be7177a2ce9b06e5de.png

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1 hour ago, den said:

I would have to disagree with a lot of that Norbert. Much of it is unsubstantiated and unproven.

The financial mess of the NHS because of PFI is proven. The fact only Haliburton, a company Dick Cheney was a director of at one time was the only company allowed to bid for rebuilding Iraqi oil fields was proven. As was the subsequent power vacuum, civil war and general mess that was post war Iraq. Then there's the rise of IS, helped by this. Oh, and there's something involving a Korean oil firm as well. He now has many millions, loads of properties, and in politics that is usually done by networking, offering and getting favours to wealthy companies and people. The sort of stuff that may be legal if done a certain way but not ethical. 

And under Labour, employment agencies took hold of the employment market, and that has ruined many sectors and employment rights, as the employee has little security and often have to kowtow to idiots in offices who are more interested in where they're going to get their next line of coke for the weekend.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/mar/17/tony-blair-cash-south-korea-oil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6315799.stm

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blairs-may-be-forced-to-sell-their-bristol-flats-135150.html

Oh, and one of his sons is a football agent.

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20 minutes ago, philipl said:

I hear he is quite bad.

What is atrocious is Hancock being diagnosed, quarantining for half the recommended 14 days then going to the opening of the Nightingale Centre where he coughed his guts.

image.png.63b9806d15e969be7177a2ce9b06e5de.png

NHS online and Public health England said self isolated for 7 days Philipl so you are wrong. You can still go back to work even if the cough remains. 

 

Screenshot_20200325-133603_Chrome.jpg

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