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8 hours ago, den said:

Talking about the Tories and the NHS, A&E have just recorded their worst performance in December - ever.

why does the ordinary bloke in the street vote for them?

Those figures are going to get a lot worse before they get better - if they ever do. It's not all bad news though, you can always join BUPA. 

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10 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

4 in the running.

Looks like Granny Thornberry and Clive (who?) Lewis are having an early bath.

Can't wait for the huge shock when Becky Corbyn wins.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-51055663

You keep changing the names of women in the Labour party, do you have a problem with women in power? Labour women in power? 

First it was Diane Abbott, now its Rebecca Long Bailey and Emily Thornberry, its very strange and more akin to a school playground than a politics thread.

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17 hours ago, den said:

Q. If freedom of movement makes no difference to anyone, why were brexiteers so desperate to ban it?

A. It does make a difference.

 

Freedom of Movement allows unfettered migration to the country. I don’t want freedom of movement to their country, and I don’t want them to have it to mine either. 
 

If I plan to emigrate to a country such as New Zealand or Canada they would first assess whether or not I will bring a benefit to them (skills lists for labour shortfalls) and I wouldn’t be allowed to go over there and compete in saturated markets (service industry, labour industry) forever. I may get a temporary workers visa which is 12 months at most. I’m fine with that, that’s their rules and I will respect it.
 

I personally don’t see any issue in having a points based immigration system. It ensures we only take on board people that will benefit our communities. As I would be expected to show my worth to a country I want to move to, so should they to come here.

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So what if, like my daughter, youd met an EU citizen you wanted to marry? She was unskilled when she went there, studied for a degree, is now gainfully employed and seeking election to the local council. She worked, to pay for her degree and when she graduated, in menial work just to pay for her independence and is now bookkeeper and many other things for her husbands expanding IT firm. So much so that they're having to employ someone else to be her assistant.  She benefits her community by serving on various local committees already but she'd probably never have been able to move to Germany in the first place without freedom of movement.

Edited by gumboots

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It is also important to distinguish between immigration from outside the EU and free movement within the EU.

Often these two issues get muddled in people’s minds. When they see television pictures of people jumping onto lorries in Calais in order to sneak into the UK, they sometimes think this is something to do with our EU membership. It isn’t.

EU citizens are free to come into Britain without clinging onto the underbelly of a truck. It is non-EU citizens who have been trying to get here illegally. When we leave the EU, we would face exactly the same problem with this type of migrant.

Free movement within the EU has been very good for Britain both economically and culturally. We haven't just benefited from the inflow of talent; our own citizens have the opportunity to roam freely over 27 countries.

It is this that the Brexiteers cannot see. 

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Actually non-EU illegal immigration will probably get worse. The French currently cooperate with us to prevent what they can at Calais. After Brexit why would they bother? They're just as likely to let any who can get transport come, in order to be rid of the strain on their resources

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Unintended consequences of big and wrong referendums such as Brexit. Leaving the EU could actually lead to increased immigration. A points based system won't prevent the wrong sort of immigrants entering the country while a points based system will probably keep out the many relatively unskilled migrants that we need. Services industries such as catering and hotels will be particularly badly affected. 

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11 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

This should be a vote winner Clive... a referendum to get rid of the monarchy.

How out of touch with our country can these lefties actually be ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-51062770

God save the Queen !

Could you point me to where he says he wants a referendum to get rid of the monarchy? I must have missed that bit.

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15 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Could you point me to where he says he wants a referendum to get rid of the monarchy? I must have missed that bit.

Thin end of the communist wedge.

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Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

Thin end of the communist wedge.

Oh right, so he didn't actually say it, you just made it up, or if we are being charitable, misread it?

There are plenty of things to kick politicians of all parties for at the moment but let's at least be accurate. Otherwise we are just as bad as most of them are.

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43 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

This should be a vote winner Clive... a referendum to get rid of the monarchy.

How out of touch with our country can these lefties actually be ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-51062770

God save the Queen !

It's a good start.

I certainly don't support a German that routinely knights paedophiles and other crooks.

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1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

This should be a vote winner Clive... a referendum to get rid of the monarchy.

How out of touch with our country can these lefties actually be ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-51062770

God save the Queen !

 He's not calling on it "to get rid" of the monarchy.

You can't read.

Fail. 

 

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1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

This should be a vote winner Clive... a referendum to get rid of the monarchy.

How out of touch with our country can these lefties actually be ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-51062770

God save the Queen !

‘After the event, Mr Lewis took to social media to emphasise he was not calling for the monarchy's abolition.’

So basically the opposite of what you said.

Okay then.


It’s not just lefties, there are plenty of people that want rid of the monarchy in truth.

(I’m not one of them though). 

Edited by K-Hod

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It's all been triggered anew by the Harry and Meghan thing. Let them go. The only problem is, they'll still need protection and will not live normal lives anyway. If they havent factored that in, then they're bonkers. Your child will always be a great grandson of the current monarch and grandson and nephew to future ones so they'll have to live with that

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I would vote to get rid of the monarchy. Pointless. The main benefit they give is tourism but they would still get tourists visiting ex royal palaces now. 

With respect to EU/non-EU migration I don’t disagree that it should be differentiated. However, all of the EU citizens that would want to move here will still be able to move here under a points based system providing they benefit our skills shortage. As we know, migrants effectively staff the NHS and I’m sure it will be classed as a shortage...they will be allowed to come. 
 

@gumboots she went to study a degree therefore ending freedom of movement wouldn’t have stopped her from entering Germany as studying abroad is always excluded from such limits. I’m fairly certain that once over there marriage to a citizen also entitles you rights to live there 

This idea that ending freedom of movement is going to suddenly stop talented migrants from wanting to come is wrong imo. They will still be allowed. Migration happens in Australia and it’s run on a system similar to what’s proposed. 

Edited by Dreams of 1995

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Unfortunately it's not just talented migrants we need - we also need cabbage pickers and bum wipers as they seem in short supply amongst  the indiginous population. How does the poiints based system work there? Hint: it doesn't

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1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

@gumboots she went to study a degree therefore ending freedom of movement wouldn’t have stopped her from entering Germany as studying abroad is always excluded from such limits. I’m fairly certain that once over there marriage to a citizen also entitles you rights to live there 

This idea that ending freedom of movement is going to suddenly stop talented migrants from wanting to come is wrong imo. They will still be allowed. Migration happens in Australia and it’s run on a system similar to what’s proposed. 

She didnt, actually. She went to live with her boyfriend who shed met while she was working in Italy. The degree came later

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14 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

It is also important to distinguish between immigration from outside the EU and free movement within the EU.

Often these two issues get muddled in people’s minds. When they see television pictures of people jumping onto lorries in Calais in order to sneak into the UK, they sometimes think this is something to do with our EU membership. It isn’t.

EU citizens are free to come into Britain without clinging onto the underbelly of a truck. It is non-EU citizens who have been trying to get here illegally. When we leave the EU, we would face exactly the same problem with this type of migrant.

Free movement within the EU has been very good for Britain both economically and culturally. We haven't just benefited from the inflow of talent; our own citizens have the opportunity to roam freely over 27 countries.

It is this that the Brexiteers cannot see. 

I can see this and I'm a Brexiteer. There's no reason why this needs to change post Brexit. The non-EU citizens trying to gain entry into the UK illegally should have been turned back long before they reached the Channel ports, that's the problem.

Why do you think they by-passed all the other EU countries in an effort to gain entry into the UK and still continue to do so in increasing numbers?

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On 10/01/2020 at 11:40, Dreams of 1995 said:

Freedom of Movement allows unfettered migration to the country. I don’t want freedom of movement to their country, and I don’t want them to have it to mine either. 
 

If I plan to emigrate to a country such as New Zealand or Canada they would first assess whether or not I will bring a benefit to them (skills lists for labour shortfalls) and I wouldn’t be allowed to go over there and compete in saturated markets (service industry, labour industry) forever. I may get a temporary workers visa which is 12 months at most. I’m fine with that, that’s their rules and I will respect it.
 

I personally don’t see any issue in having a points based immigration system. It ensures we only take on board people that will benefit our communities. As I would be expected to show my worth to a country I want to move to, so should they to come here.

As Ursula Von der Leyen said, you cannot have freedom of movement of goods and capital without freedom of movement of people.

I and millions like me depend on freedom of movement for my family life and livelihood.

The fact you are ignorant of the reality of freedom of movement rules and millions of other voters like you means you have wrecked the UK.

Edited by philipl

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On 10/01/2020 at 17:19, Jimbo said:

Unfortunately it's not just talented migrants we need - we also need cabbage pickers and bum wipers as they seem in short supply amongst  the indiginous population. How does the poiints based system work there? Hint: it doesn't

It would be interesting to know just how many of these young African and Middle Eastern men of fighting age are actually wiping bums.

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12 minutes ago, Husky said:

It would be interesting to know just how many of these young African and Middle Eastern men of fighting age are actually wiping bums.

Strawman - They don't have freedom of movement now - The discussion is about ending FoM for EU citizens and replacing it with a points based system - We are about to lose all access to the pool of European labour for the unskilled jobs that idle Brits won't do - It'll be nice to see all the unempoyed Brexiteers lining up to pick veg once their jobs disappear.

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Jeremy Corbny in addressing the crowd in Trafalgar Square today,"No matter what Iran has done who they have killed who who they attack in the future, no one should attack them. War is not the Answer." 

What a clown this guy is. Thank God he will never be PM of our great nation. 

Always defending Iran and wouldnt even called their general a terrorist. Why Jeremy? 

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