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1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

They believe in One Nation. Throwing people outside the big metropolitan areas on to the scrapheap is Labour policy not Conservative - that's why they voted Tory.

They haven't believed in " One Nation " since 1979. Don't pee in my ear and then tell me it's raining. 

Edited by Tyrone Shoelaces

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Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They haven'y believed in " One Nation " since 1979. Don't pee in my ear and then tell me it's raining. 

Like Jim you are Yesterday's men fighting the battles of the 1980s; another reason why Labour keep losing.

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7 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Like Jim you are Yesterday's men fighting the battles of the 1980s; another reason why Labour keep losing.

If any Party is living in the past it's the Tory Party. They have no answer to the issues of the day that doesn't involve looking backwards. 

" There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class that's making war, and we are winning "

Warren Buffett

Well we'll see about that.

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This is going to get me into all kinds of trouble but there is something utterly nothingness about Rebecca Long-Bailey.

I even had to Wiki her to find out she is female. 

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54 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

They believe in One Nation. Throwing people outside the big metropolitan areas on to the scrapheap is Labour policy not Conservative - that's why they voted Tory.

 "One Nation Toryism" is a deceit to get the non-elite to vote against their own interests. It's a con and always has been

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1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Like Jim you are Yesterday's men fighting the battles of the 1980s; another reason why Labour keep losing.

You are right. 

Labour keep talking about these policies they had in the last election but didn't get the votes. People didn't believe in their leader or front bench, policies and don't want them in power. 

Don't forget Corbyn lost 2 elections not just one. And the reasons why he was elected as leader due to certain friends of his. 

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2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

When Thomas Cook failed on 23 September, the entire business was liquidated, irrespective of whether individual divisions were profitable or viable.

But the fact is the entire business was viable albeit weighed down by debts.

Hays, the UK’s largest independent travel agent, bought 555 of Thomas Cook’s 563 UK stores for an undisclosed sum. It has already recruited almost 600 of the collapsed travel group’s former employees and said it had “further offers outstanding” to others. Hays expected that more than 2,500 jobs could be saved in total.

The Thomas Cook airline was not only viable but was profit-making. Yet the government made no attempt to allow the airline to continue to fly. Instead, it was placed into compulsory liquidation with the loss of 4,000 jobs.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make since your thinking is always muddled but given that it is clear the government’s assessment that providing any financial assistance would risk ‘throwing good money after bad’ is entirely false.

 

 

Edited by jim mk2

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54 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

 Tory cronyism. Prepare for another stitch-up job by the "One Nation" party. 

Edited by jim mk2

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1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

When Thomas Cook failed on 23 September, the entire business was liquidated, irrespective of whether individual divisions were profitable or viable.

But the fact is the entire business was viable albeit weighed down by debts.

Hays, the UK’s largest independent travel agent, bought 555 of Thomas Cook’s 563 UK stores for an undisclosed sum. It has already recruited almost 600 of the collapsed travel group’s former employees and said it had “further offers outstanding” to others. Hays expected that more than 2,500 jobs could be saved in total.

The Thomas Cook airline was not only viable but was profit-making. Yet the government made no attempt to allow the airline to continue to fly. Instead, it was placed into compulsory liquidation with the loss of 4,000 jobs.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make since your thinking is always muddled but given that it is clear the government’s assessment that providing any financial assistance would risk ‘throwing good money after bad’ is entirely false.

If the business was viable then between the years of 2013 to 2019 somebody would have come in and acquired it. Fosun were desperate to add an airline to their portfolio but after genuine review of the accounts, usually only really open to forensic accounting methods once a deal is part-brokered, they decided not to. Fosun know much more about the business than me or you and ultimately it collapsed.

I like the way you added the caveat of "weight down by debts", like the sum of 1.7bn debts is insignificant. With air travel falling, package holidays sinking and the rise of online markets Thomas Cook failed to adapt and survive and paid the price of the free market. No need to nationalise a business when there are other airlines (EasyJet, Ryanair) all competing much more competitively in the market. Besides, the £200m bailout would have literally kept them open for another day but the debt rising and income falling meant one bailout would equal another.

Well done Hays and another great advertisement of the free market. Hopefully Hays can do to Thomas Cook what the directors couldn't. Thomas Cook suffered for nearly 6 years so it is no surprised they were allowed to go under. You can't save that which refuses to help itself and the government shouldn't be intervening in the free market because then it isn't a genuine free market. I don't even think the government should have intervened with Flybe but the fact remains there was more circumstances that needed to be considered there- there are currently services which only Flybe provide and any bailout should have been given the mandate of further competition added in those areas to alleviate the monopoly Flybe seem to have in certain areas of the UK. 

With respect to your gripe about APD Flybe are also at a disadvantage to other airlines. APD is charged on both the return and departure of any flight in the UK, given that the Flybe are domestic based they essentially pay double the tax of other larger airlines who will only pay once. It probably made sense to balance out the tax, if they decide to do so. 

Your gripe is simply because a blue govt has made this decision. Had it been Labour, and vast resources would have been used to nationalise it, you'll be heralding it a success. Which is rather remarkable that you have a gripe about Thomas Cook not being bailed out but also moaning Flybe have been. 

Anyway, your original quote was "Thomas cook was a viable profitable airline and deserved to be rescued more than Flybe" which clearly doesn't actually provide any meaningful input to the debate. Two entirely different circumstances: one has x amount of competitors ready to step in and the other simply doesn't. The only issue here is that Flybe holds an almost monopoly on certain airports / travel routes and that needs to change to save the need for another "bail out" of sorts.

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54 minutes ago, Gav said:

What a shame she's otherwise another one of Labour's vote losing Identity politicians.

When she was being sworn in as the youngest MP in December - during her brief interview on TV she blabbed something about 'Standing up for Ethnic minorities and women's rights'. I did cringe.

The Northern voters Labour has lost generally don't care about that kind of shit when they are 'using food banks' and  even 'hunting squirrels' etc. to survive. 🤦‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Husky said:

What a shame she's otherwise another one of Labour's vote losing Identity politicians.

When she was being sworn in as the youngest MP in December - during her brief interview on TV she blabbed something about 'Standing up for Ethnic minorities and women's rights'. I did cringe.

The Northern voters Labour has lost generally don't care about that kind of shit when they are 'using food banks' and  even 'hunting squirrels' etc. to survive. 🤦‍♂️

So you don't agree with womens rights and standing up for ethnic minorities? 

As for people using food banks, Nadia has pledged part of her wages to good causes in Nottingham, food banks being one such good cause.

My advice to you is read the article first and engage your brain before posting utter garbage :tu:

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Imagine having a problem with someone giving over half of their salary to charity....

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Just now, Gav said:

So you don't agree with womens rights and standing up for ethnic minorities? 

As for people using food banks, Nadia has pledged part of her wages to good causes in Nottingham, food banks being one such good cause.

My advice to you is read the article first and engage your brain before posting utter garbage :tu:

Try reading and comprehension before posting crap.

Outside of the London bubble lot and the idiots that support them. The voters Labour have lost do not care about the usual suspects pushing their ethnic and sexist agendas when there are far more important things to worry about.

Another 2 great examples of out of touch Labour plonkers living in their own safe bubbles blinkered by their manic and unwavering local support are the shitty little racists like Abbot and Lammy constantly spouting nonsense.

The amount of pre-election comments I read mentioning these guys (particularly Abbot) as reasons why they wouldn't vote Labour was astounding.

These kinds of Labour politicians and the attitudes of those that support them are a massive reason why Labour as it currently stands will never get back in.

Ironically the only chance Labour have is if Brexit ends up being a complete catastrophe and the country goes to shit during the next 5 years.

 

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57 minutes ago, Husky said:

Try reading and comprehension before posting crap.

Outside of the London bubble lot and the idiots that support them. The voters Labour have lost do not care about the usual suspects pushing their ethnic and sexist agendas when there are far more important things to worry about.

Another 2 great examples of out of touch Labour plonkers living in their own safe bubbles blinkered by their manic and unwavering local support are the shitty little racists like Abbot and Lammy constantly spouting nonsense.

The amount of pre-election comments I read mentioning these guys (particularly Abbot) as reasons why they wouldn't vote Labour was astounding.

These kinds of Labour politicians and the attitudes of those that support them are a massive reason why Labour as it currently stands will never get back in.

Ironically the only chance Labour have is if Brexit ends up being a complete catastrophe and the country goes to shit during the next 5 years.

 

Another ramble....

You've slagged of Nadia Whittome for donating a significant percentage of her wages to good causes in her constituency and because she wants to support women and ethnic minorities, in doing so you've managed to bring both David Lammy and Diane Abbott into the debate.

I think we better leave it there Husky and allow fellow posters to make up their own minds about your motives.

 

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7 minutes ago, Gav said:

Another ramble....

You've slagged of Nadia Whittome for donating a significant percentage of her wages to good causes in her constituency and because she wants to support women and ethnic minorities, in doing so you've managed to bring both David Lammy and Diane Abbott into the debate.

I think we better leave it there Husky and allow fellow posters to make up their own minds about your motives.

 

Again I'll point you in the direction of Reading and Comprehension lessons.

You're making stuff up again. A bit like a cultist.

As a side note. Since when (and where) is almost double the minimum wage considered a 'working wage'? - Not in Northern squirrel hunter lands I'd bet.

Edited by Husky

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On 17/01/2020 at 15:17, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

I don't think you can read.

My objection to the Flybe government's bailout was the proposal to extend the reduction in APD charges and thus encourage airline travel when the guidance from the great liar in No 10 is that nothing must be done to detract from Britain’s claim to “global leadership in the fight against climate change”.

As for the "free market", nobody, but nobody, really believes in free markets. That’s right. Not the Conservative party, not the Republican party, not the libertarians, not the Wall Street Journal, not the Financial Times. Nobody.

Except you, apparently. 

 

 

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I see the FT are running a story about HS2 and the very real possibility that the Birmingham to Manchester to Leeds phases will be put on the back burner due to spiralling costs, they are even looking at using existing full to capacity Victorian lines to run service past Birmingham...........

The first major decision after the election and we are getting a strong stench of the Same old Tories.

 

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They daren't, and if they do Labour and the northern mayors and councils should be shouting from the rooftops.

Acid test for the liar in No 10 and his chums. 

 

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6 hours ago, Gav said:

I see the FT are running a story about HS2 and the very real possibility that the Birmingham to Manchester to Leeds phases will be put on the back burner due to spiralling costs, they are even looking at using existing full to capacity Victorian lines to run service past Birmingham...........

The first major decision after the election and we are getting a strong stench of the Same old Tories.

 

106 billion pounds I've read this afternoon in a different paper to yours Gav. Is this amount the same as yours? 

Is it worth having HS2 now or would it worth investing all that money into the current rail structure and other transport links? 

The current average time it takes now is 2 hours 28 minutes. 

Edited by chaddyrovers

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7 hours ago, Gav said:

I see the FT are running a story about HS2 and the very real possibility that the Birmingham to Manchester to Leeds phases will be put on the back burner due to spiralling costs, they are even looking at using existing full to capacity Victorian lines to run service past Birmingham...........

The first major decision after the election and we are getting a strong stench of the Same old Tories.

 

They'll be rejoicing on the streets of 6 fingered land. 😂

Any news on their new Palace yet?

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Andrew Sentance, one of the people who wrote the report that the FT has leaked was just on PM on Radio 4. Contrary to what the Government are saying, that it's just a draft and nothing has been agreed yet, he said that that was just Number 10 spin. The report was handed to the Government in October, was held up because of the election and it was promised to be published immediately after the election. That'll be the one over 5 weeks ago..........

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10 hours ago, Gav said:

I see the FT are running a story about HS2 and the very real possibility that the Birmingham to Manchester to Leeds phases will be put on the back burner due to spiralling costs, they are even looking at using existing full to capacity Victorian lines to run service past Birmingham...........

The first major decision after the election and we are getting a strong stench of the Same old Tories.

 

Whenever I hear about HS2 I wonder how we have regressed so far as capable humans. The Victorians would have just fucking built it. 

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