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8 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

This just proves all of the thoughts I have had in my head over the Christmas break. I was looking forward to it as I knew I'd be back in town and could attend a few games. I didn't go once. The truth about it all is that all of our talk about Mowbray is guff - it doesn't matter who is in charge because nothing will ever change whilst they are here. We are shackled by three people who will probably never step foot in our town again. It's disgusting that the EFL allows this kind of thing to happen.

All this talk every time we are on sky about how much our owners are pumping in, how committed they are to our cause is bullshit. This is their own doing. They bought a club for £20m and sold a player for £17m. They had the perfect business, ran by genuine football people and they threw it all away in their pig headedness / desire to have a club to write off loses in the Indian market. I've no sympathy for them and honestly I would rather face the bullshit we'd get from our rivals and start again in the lower leagues than have them three wankers have anything to do with us. What are we supposed to do now, be thankful they service their debt? No, fuck them, they made this bed. Sadly for us fans it's our ego and our club that suffers but part of me is happy it's denting their wallets too.

Sacking TM, hiring Pep, whatever it's all pointless. We may as well appoint Kermit the Frog so Balaji can actually have his hand up its arse rather than pay a person to masquerade as a coach. 

Nothing changes. It's the same shit, different year. It's about time the football league and its sponsors started to consider the communities that these clubs service as opposed to their bank balances. The Venkys have no affiliation to this town, club or county; they are strangers in the company they own and are nothing more than deadwood with deep pockets.

Well done for paying the electric bill but when you eventually do swallow your pride and piss off the only legacy Venkys will leave is one of pure filth. If family reputation is as big in India as they say you should know that in this town you are bottom feeders. 

Brilliant post.

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6 hours ago, cesus said:

I’m sorry but how can anybody be in any way surprised that this is on the horizon, the management of the club have amassed a playing / coaching staff which costs 140 god damn % of income. Whilst amassing a hideous wage bill the club has a playing staff with one major asset (now injured) and a couple that could provide sticky plasters to prevent a FFP breach. 
 

Financially the writing is on the wall, I’m sorry but that is an absolute fact! Football has allowed clubs to get into these positions with rogue owners and they have absolutely no answers to it.  We are on our own!

It's looking grim folks,no other word for it.

It would appear that the very best we can hope for in the future is just the basic day to day survival of club..this is what we have been reduced to.

All hail Venkys!

Edited by SIMON GARNERS 194

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‘Bottom feeders’? That may have been their reputation in the early days, not anymore.

The majority of fans I speak to tell me a combination of..

’They put more money in than Jack ever did’, ‘we should be grateful to them’... and of course, the old favourite... ‘they were just badly advised’.

Edited by Mattyblue

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Just now, Miller11 said:

Brilliant post.

Except what happened to stop him (or her) going to the games? All the stuff about Venkys we knew prior to Christmas and have known for a very long time. How can you go from "looking forward to going to the games" to "not going to one" - the actual quote is this I was looking forward to it as I knew I'd be back in town and could attend a few games. I didn't go once.

I'm not necessarily arguing with their assessment of where the club is at the moment but did he/she not go because we had lost/drawn a couple of games he/she thought we should have won? I don't really understand that mentality I'm afraid.

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I know there are a lot of posts indicating that the £12m on Gallagher and Brereton have contributed massively to our losses and threat of FFP sanctions but surely the deals for them two were structured whereby payment is paid in stages over the lengths of their contracts. If this is the case then there could be another £XXm off the bottom line for the next couple of seasons.

If any of the bean counters can shed some light on this I would be grateful.

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5 hours ago, alcd said:

This appears to be a misquote. It makes no sense that "the lower the amount overspend the larger the points deduction ". 

There's a basic 12 point deduction. But the lower the amount over spent, the more of a discount you get on that deduction, is what they're trying to explain - but admittedly they've explained it very poorly.

If we spend £2m over, we'd have less of a points deduction than if we were £10m over. 

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43 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

‘Bottom feeders’? That may have been their reputation in the early days, not anymore.

The majority of fans I speak to tell me a combination of..

’They put more money in than Jack ever did’, ‘we should be grateful to them’... and of course, the old favourite... ‘they were just badly advised’.

People like that are poison and the reason others are at point of past caring.

Good owners have been victims of FUP as well. Look at Leicester, Man City, etc. I don't see why all the blame for FUP seems to be getting directed at Venkys. If they consider getting a stadium sponsor for instance can't really blame them under such circumstances. They can try to seek a way round it so people should be hoping Sheffield Wednesday win their case against the EFL.

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Just now, Vinjay said:

People like that are poison and the reason others are at point of past caring.

Good owners have been victims of FUP as well. Look at Leicester, Man City, etc. I don't see why all the blame for FUP seems to be getting directed at Venkys. If they consider getting a stadium sponsor for instance can't really blame them under such circumstances. They can try to seek a way round it so people should be hoping Sheffield Wednesday win their case against the EFL.

One way around it is to stop wasting millions on dud strikers and playing them on the wing...just a thought.

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Well if this is the case our transfer strategy has been well and truly utterly stupid. 

Gally and Bereton. £12 million down the drain. Not only are they not contributing much on the pitch they're hindering things off it as well. 

Why are we signing players at the twilight of their careers? Whilst this has worked well with Downing, Johnson is no better than what we have but on a good wage with no resale value. 

If we had such challenges why is there so much deadwood in the squad we don't seem to be actively trying to shift? Why are more of the academy players not involved as squad players or if not good enough moved on? I get it is easier said than done but we don't seem to be operating in a way to prepare for it. 

 

But, I've done it again - worrying about FFP when any good owner shows it can be avoided, ignored or deferred. There's been a boat load of shenanigans for clubs to avoid it but our lot are either too lazy, too incompetent or both (my pick) to avoid it. 

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6 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

One way around it is to stop wasting millions on dud strikers and playing them on the wing...just a thought.

You have a point but I just can't look at it like that. What am I supposed to say "damn they should have spent the money more wisely because of those rules that label Jack Walker a cheat?"

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Just now, Vinjay said:

You have a point but I just can't look at it like that. What am I supposed to say "damn they should have spent the money more wisely because of those rules that label Jack Walker a cheat?"

Those rules were not in place when Jack Walker was here...move on. Just because those rules exist now, does not mean anyone is labeling him a cheat. Walker was about a model owner as you could get, FFP was brought in with good intentions after what some other owners did - has it worked, not a chance. 

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8 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I know there are a lot of posts indicating that the £12m on Gallagher and Brereton have contributed massively to our losses and threat of FFP sanctions but surely the deals for them two were structured whereby payment is paid in stages over the lengths of their contracts. If this is the case then there could be another £XXm off the bottom line for the next couple of seasons.

If any of the bean counters can shed some light on this I would be grateful.

You would think that would be the case. You would also think that a large chunk of that £12 million is based on certain milestones being reached. e.g. goals or promotion or England caps, or at least staggered enough to ensure no Ffp risk.

Chuck in Raya's cash and I very much doubt losses on player trading are anywhere near as high as some are suggesting.

I expected such stuff to emerge. They don't like spending, especially not in January as shown by the level of outgoings in the past.

When Lambert was here their 'big spend' consisted of selling Rhodes and then allowing loans for Graham, Gomes, Watt etc. 

I firmly believe that people like Waggott are just human shields placed to deflect blame and attention away from upstairs. To be honest I can't really take what he says too seriously.

FFP is a godsend for Venkys. In one swoop they can convince thousands that they are ready and willing to spend but are prevented from doing so by third parties.

 

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Just now, JHRover said:

You would think that would be the case. You would also think that a large chunk of that £12 million is based on certain milestones being reached. e.g. goals or promotion or England caps, or at least staggered enough to ensure no Ffp risk.

Chuck in Raya's cash and I very much doubt losses on player trading are anywhere near as high as some are suggesting.

I expected such stuff to emerge. They don't like spending, especially not in January as shown by the level of outgoings in the past.

When Lambert was here their 'big spend' consisted of selling Rhodes and then allowing loans for Graham, Gomes, Watt etc. 

I firmly believe that people like Waggott are just human shields placed to deflect blame and attention away from upstairs. To be honest I can't really take what he says too seriously.

FFP is a godsend for Venkys. In one swoop they can convince thousands that they are ready and willing to spend but are prevented from doing so by third parties.

 

Defo save a few bob if that is the case. 

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3 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Well if this is the case our transfer strategy has been well and truly utterly stupid. 

Gally and Bereton. £12 million down the drain. Not only are they not contributing much on the pitch they're hindering things off it as well. 

Why are we signing players at the twilight of their careers? Whilst this has worked well with Downing, Johnson is no better than what we have but on a good wage with no resale value. 

If we had such challenges why is there so much deadwood in the squad we don't seem to be actively trying to shift? Why are more of the academy players not involved as squad players or if not good enough moved on? I get it is easier said than done but we don't seem to be operating in a way to prepare for it. 

 

But, I've done it again - worrying about FFP when any good owner shows it can be avoided, ignored or deferred. There's been a boat load of shenanigans for clubs to avoid it but our lot are either too lazy, too incompetent or both (my pick) to avoid it. 

There is hope for Gallagher. He tries hard when he is on and lumped in his ridiculous peak Mowbray position on the wing. He has scored goals here before. 

Signing players at the twilight of their career? Can you give one example other than those 2? . Downing alone shows the value in doing it. I think Johnson has had some solid games. Maybe he just needs a run in the team. Will get it now with Evans out. 

We have no idea what is being done with regards moving players on. As for not enough academy players being involved, I would suggest taking a look here  

 

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5 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Those rules were not in place when Jack Walker was here...move on. Just because those rules exist now, does not mean anyone is labeling him a cheat. Walker was about a model owner as you could get

There were no good intentions. It was brought in because clubs like Man United whined to UEFA and two faced hypocrites like Dave Whelan backed them. If Jack had won more league titles they would have campaigned for the same thing then. Anyone who defends it on here has "FUP syndrome" kinda like "Stockholm Syndrome" with the club being held captive by bad owners AND corrupt rules. That clown at Accrington labelled Jack a cheat so yes that's exactly what pro FUP people are doing.

Edited by Vinjay

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7 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Well if this is the case our transfer strategy has been well and truly utterly stupid. 

Gally and Bereton. £12 million down the drain. Not only are they not contributing much on the pitch they're hindering things off it as well. 

Why are we signing players at the twilight of their careers? Whilst this has worked well with Downing, Johnson is no better than what we have but on a good wage with no resale value. 

If we had such challenges why is there so much deadwood in the squad we don't seem to be actively trying to shift? Why are more of the academy players not involved as squad players or if not good enough moved on? I get it is easier said than done but we don't seem to be operating in a way to prepare for it. 

 

But, I've done it again - worrying about FFP when any good owner shows it can be avoided, ignored or deferred. There's been a boat load of shenanigans for clubs to avoid it but our lot are either too lazy, too incompetent or both (my pick) to avoid it. 

Unfortunately the days of getting round FFP are at an end. There is a report that I have just read in today's Daily Telegraph that last week 5 unnamed Championship clubs visited the EFL for a meeting to demand that a date be set for the hearing in to the Sheffield Wednesday situation be set and to complain about Wednesday still bringing in new players. I am afraid that there are now an increasing number of clubs who are bringing in lawyers to consider action to ensure that the EFL enforce the rules and we are going to have to live with that.

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19 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

If we had such challenges why is there so much deadwood in the squad we don't seem to be actively trying to shift?

Not fair on the lads, is it? 

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

There is hope for Gallagher. He tries hard when he is on and lumped in his ridiculous peak Mowbray position on the wing. He has scored goals here before. 

Signing players at the twilight of their career? Can you give one example other than those 2? . Downing alone shows the value in doing it. I think Johnson has had some solid games. Maybe he just needs a run in the team. Will get it now with Evans out. 

We have no idea what is being done with regards moving players on. As for not enough academy players being involved, I would suggest taking a look here  

 

Some good points there. With Gally we would be very lucky to get £5 million back for him, even if the market continues to inflate. Agree the stick him on the wing thing is really hindering him (and ultimately is even more likely to see us not recover our money.) Whatever way you look at it - and I too think there might be a player in there -  I feel we're a long way off from seeing any return on that investment, or even a break even. Put it this way I doubt either of us are confident/optimistic rather than hopeful Gally works out. And as for Bereton....

I think I was mainly thinking of Downing and Johnson tbh. That 2 key signings were at the twilight of their careers struck me as a bit odd at the time, and in light of our FFP situation very risky. Credit to TM for Downing as it has worked out brilliantly, but Johnson hasn't. I guess it's a mix of Johnson not massively improving the team and hindering FFP and the summer seeing us sign 2 players on big wages at the end of the career. Whittinhham was a fair while ago but falls into that category, but was more a case of what are we doing signing expensive players with no resale value on the cusp of FFP. 

Buckley is a good example of not being ready but I wonder about others. Warton should either be ready by now or gone for example, or JRC seems to be very promising. I think in part there's a thought if FFP was looming so badly we could have been more proactive in getting  our youth ready for the team or be a bit more ruthless in getting rid of some. I think my main gripe is it seems we we have somehow sleepwalked into FFP again. 

 

1 minute ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Unfortunately the days of getting round FFP are at an end. There is a report that I have just read in today's Daily Telegraph that last week 5 unnamed Championship clubs visited the EFL for a meeting to demand that a date be set for the hearing in to the Sheffield Wednesday situation be set and to complain about Wednesday still bringing in new players. I am afraid that there are now an increasing number of clubs who are bringing in lawyers to consider action to ensure that the EFL enforce the rules and we are going to have to live with that.

That will be interesting and ominous. I wonder how much power the EFL have - after all Bolton got away with their suspender point deduction. And as Sheff Wed are showing, even if you can't avoid it you can postpone it until you are where you want to be/in a better place. 

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13 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Would rather go into FFP restrictions than sell our stadium to this lot anyway.

Unfortunately they already own the ground albeit under the same company as the club and ACV or no ACV they can move the ground off to another company if they want to, it just might take a bit longer or require more creativity than previously.

 

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21 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Some good points there. With Gally we would be very lucky to get £5 million back for him, even if the market continues to inflate. Agree the stick him on the wing thing is really hindering him (and ultimately is even more likely to see us not recover our money.) Whatever way you look at it - and I too think there might be a player in there -  I feel we're a long way off from seeing any return on that investment, or even a break even. Put it this way I doubt either of us are confident/optimistic rather than hopeful Gally works out. And as for Bereton....

I think I was mainly thinking of Downing and Johnson tbh. That 2 key signings were at the twilight of their careers struck me as a bit odd at the time, and in light of our FFP situation very risky. Credit to TM for Downing as it has worked out brilliantly, but Johnson hasn't. I guess it's a mix of Johnson not massively improving the team and hindering FFP and the summer seeing us sign 2 players on big wages at the end of the career. Whittinhham was a fair while ago but falls into that category, but was more a case of what are we doing signing expensive players with no resale value on the cusp of FFP. 

Buckley is a good example of not being ready but I wonder about others. Warton should either be ready by now or gone for example, or JRC seems to be very promising. I think in part there's a thought if FFP was looming so badly we could have been more proactive in getting  our youth ready for the team or be a bit more ruthless in getting rid of some. I think my main gripe is it seems we we have somehow sleepwalked into FFP again. 

 

 

Ya, on the academy players I don't think Mowbray will ever integrate them correctly. Look at it this way, he has played Buckley plenty when he clearly isn't up to the physical side, but then refused to play Brereton who is the same age but with more experience at this level. He left him out so long(or played him on the wing) that whatever confidence he might have had coming here, was eroded by this stage. 

Mowbray sees things his own way and sometimes nobody else can figure out why. He will probably bring Wharton back only to start him right back or something like that. He is a frustrating man. 

As a poster mentioned in a post earlier, he is an old school manager making a ham-fisted attempt at trying to be modern. The annoying part is he does get players playing for him, so his own chopping , changing and illogical decisions are what lead to them becoming frustrated, disillusioned and out of form. He did it with Rothwell too. He seems to have coached what ability he had on the ball out of him

If Mowbray kept it simple with this squad and 4-4-2 , we would be a lot better off. Gallagher on the wing like...FFS.  Has there ever been a more stupid decision? Yet, he keeps doing it. Madness. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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16 hours ago, Scotland1 said:

Exactly what I was thinking. Under scmp league one surely that’s omitted? 

Sounds like a good plan, we could just get relegated again. If it happens this year, someone could lump on and make a killing, as we are around 50/1. Just saying!!

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